FFXV discussion thread [No Spoilers]

[Bazztek]

FFXV isn't fleshed out on it's own without Versus, when you take Versus into consideration, it's like a completely different beast entirely that uses parts of Versus, and parts of an original game, when it should have just been an original game, and let Versus be it's own thing.

Versus is literally just the concept that was used to create XV, what the fuck is so hard to get about this? Versus didn't workout as its own thing hence it being turned into XV to go through whatever necessary changes.

Tell me more about this Versus XIII video game you played.

 

[T.O.T]

That's the things with trailers though...they may not always be accurate to what you'll actually get. Some of the stuff that was shown off in the past would have been cool to experience, but everything comes at a price. Some things just aren't realistic at all. We'll never know in full what Versus would have been. It's a lot of speculating. Making an awesome trailer for something that has barely gotten off the ground development wise has a much bigger chance of running into hurdles that can't be overcome rather that is due to resources and/or time not being fit for the objective.

 

[Hey Everyone]

Versus is literally just the concept that was used to create XV, what the fuck is so hard to get about this? Versus didn't workout as its own thing hence it being turned into XV to go through whatever necessary changes.

Tell me more about this Versus XIII video game you played.

Versus was never said to not work as a concept if that was the case then FFXV wouldn't have tried to be Versus XIII hell it wouldn't have used any of the concepts. It's not that Versus didn't work it was that it would have taken an entire trilogy to tell it's story, where as FFXV tried and failed to do it in one.

 

[Bazztek]

Versus was never said to not work as a concept if that was the case then FFXV wouldn't have tried to be Versus XIII hell it wouldn't have used any of the concepts. It's not that Versus didn't work it was that it would have taken an entire trilogy to tell it's story, where as FFXV tried and failed to do it in one.

Are you fucking for real? The fact that Versus was only 25% done by 2012 and turned into XV was specifically because Versus was not working out, hence why they turned it to XV, to reboot it and give it new life while making whatever necessary changes they had to. Versus didn't even get to tell any story because it was a failed concept, which is why they reworked it into XV and succeeded in telling a single story within XV. All the themes in XV from bonds, brotherhood, tragedy and whatnot are all themes that they said would be part of Versus, but we already know Versus did not work out, they only worked out once the game became XV, because I don't know if you know this or not but XV actually exists as a game whereas Versus XIII does not.

And stop spouting that trilogy nonsense. Nomura or Tabata never said Versus would be a trilogy, all Tabata said was that Versus was going to be multiple games. The only thing you have mentioning a trilogy for Versus is some 4chan leak you keep clinging to.

Protip: Just because the May leak regarding story details was largely correct does not somehow mean every single 4chan "leak" regarding the game is true.

 

[Hey Everyone]

That's the things with trailers though...they may not always be accurate to what you'll actually get. Some of the stuff that was shown off in the past would have been cool to experience, but everything comes at a price. Some things just aren't realistic at all. We'll never know in full what Versus would have been. It's a lot of speculating. Making an awesome trailer for something that has barely gotten off the ground development wise has a much bigger chance of running into hurdles that can't be overcome rather that is due to resources and/or time not being fit for the objective.

Then you know what, then they shouldn't show before they can ship it, period, that's the problem you show a game too early say you are going to do this, and it doesn't turn out that way, so you know the solution DON'T SHOW IT, DON'T SHOW IT, until you are actually 100 percent sure it's going to be in the final game. Also I can't for the life of me, think of a well received trailer, to which it's final product looked like a completely different universe too. It's not just the trailers the game itself doesn't make a good justification as to why these things were changed, it really doesn't it doesn't justify Luna replacing Stella, it doesn't in the slightest and I'm someone that doesn't even care about the two characters to begin with, but hey Stella looked pretty interesting even though the plot leaks make me scratch my head granted the gamefaqs one actually makes me want to see how it would have looked on screen, because words can only tell so much about a character.
If the game had all the characters fleshed out, and gave satisfaction with Luna's character then maybe just maybe no one would bitch about the changes, but when you have a game that doesn't justify why you made those changes in the first place, and in some cases worse because of it.

 

[T.O.T]

Then you know what, then they shouldn't show before they can ship it, period, that's the problem you show a game too early say you are going to do this, and it doesn't turn out that way, so you know the solution DON'T SHOW IT, DON'T SHOW IT, until you are actually 100 percent sure it's going to be in the final game.

This isn't just a SE issue, but a AAA dev issue in general. If you are against such things, the best thing I can recommend is to talk with your wallet. If you have complained after buying a game, there is a chance a company may not care given that they already have your money.

 

[Hey Everyone]

Are you fucking for real? The fact that Versus was only 25% done by 2012 and turned into XV was specifically because Versus was not working out, hence why they turned it to XV. Versus didn't even get to tell any story because it was a failed concept, which is why they reworked it into XV and succeeded in telling a single story within XV. All the themes in XV from bonds, brotherhood, tragedy and whatnot are all themes that they said would be part of Versus, but we already know Versus did not work out, they only worked out once the game became XV, because I don't know if you know this or not but XV actually exists as a game whereas Versus XIII does not.

I'm aware Versus XIII was only 25% done as a game, and no it wasn't because it didn't work out, a lot of it had to do with FFXIII, the changes between systems, and it's development hell. Versus was going to tell a story actually a trilogy in fact, a game with multiple direct sequels. You don't succeed in telling a single story when you have to add patches to flesh out certain characters which most defintely would have happened if the game had stayed to being a trilogy and no this isn't me talking about ooh Stella even with the same characters, the same universe if they had stuck to it being a trilogy this wouldn't have happened. Versus was going to work out, there is no evidence that shows otherwise if Versus wasn't going to work out as a 3 part game then FFXV wouldn't have used any of the concepts to begin with. Hell the leaker himself said this about FFXV under Nomura. Even with the Final Fantasy XV as now, Stella and FNC removed they still should have made this game a multi-parter they spread themselves way too thin with this one.

2.Because of said Nomura trilogy hopes, and because Square would rather have him on KH3 and FF7 remake. With Nomura it would have been good, but would have taken way more time just to get part 1 out, like an extra 2 years

Also 25% is largely vague, what does this 25% percent constitute of, what was in it?

 

[Nova]

"The basic scenario and story concepts haven't changed that much," she explains, speaking through a translator. "They're quite similar to what they were originally. There have been some changes, small scenario tweaks and the game's functionality itself has changed. But overall, from a musical perspective, the concepts that we wanted to use from the start, they're pretty much as they were. It's kept on the same theme, basically."

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/07/yoko-shimomura-final-fantasy-xv-soundtrack/

A direct quote from Shimomura herself, a composer who has has connection with Versus XIII since inception. I suppose this is trivial as well?

Also 25% is largely vague

Wat

what does this 25% percent constitute of, what was in it?

The entire project of Versus XIII.

 

[Bazztek]

I'm aware Versus XIII was only 25% done as a game, and no it wasn't because it didn't work out, a lot of it had to do with FFXIII, the changes between systems, and it's development hell. Versus was going to tell a story actually a trilogy in fact, a game with multiple direct sequels. You don't succeed in telling a single story when you have to add patches to flesh out certain characters which most defintely would have happened if the game had stayed to being a trilogy and no this isn't me talking about ooh Stella even with the same characters, the same universe if they had stuck to it being a trilogy this wouldn't have happened. Versus was going to work out, there is no evidence that shows otherwise if Versus wasn't going to work out as a 3 part game then FFXV wouldn't have used any of the concepts to begin with. Hell the leaker himself said this about FFXV under Nomura. Even with the Final Fantasy XV as now, Stella and FNC removed they still should have made this game a multi-parter they spread themselves way too thin with this one.

Also 25% is largely vague, what does this 25% percent constitute of, what was in it?

It was specifically because Versus was not working out, how the fuck can you even deny this fact? It's such an intrinsic detail known to anyone who has followed the development of Versus to XV, that they turned Versus to XV and made the story changes because Versus wasn't working out as intended, hence them rebooting it to XV in 2012, making the changes, etc. Even Kingsglaive started production in 2013.

No, Versus being a trilogy is not a fact, it has never once been officially stated that Versus was going to be a trilogy by either Nomura, Tabata or any official source. All that was said was multiple sequels, that could mean anything from 1 game and 1 movie, 3 sequels, 4 sequels, 2 sequels and 1 spinoff sequel. Things like Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children are sequels to FFVII, there was never any detail given to what this other games or whatever for Versus would have been, or if it was even going to be a trilogy. Stop spouting this unsourced nonsense already.

The only reason they are adding in things to better explain Ravus is because people are idiots and didn't see what was plainly there. Versus was not going to work out and the fact that it was turned into XV is fucking proof of it, it was specifically because Versus wasn't working out the way they were trying to that they rebooted Versus into FFXV in 2012, so that it could work out, and it did as XV.

"The leaker" Fucking please, stop this shit. Random 4chan leaker has not been verified at all, at best what he says is plausible but it is not a fact. Again just because the May 25th 2016 leak about story details were true does not mean that every single person claiming to be someone from the XV team "leaking" stuff on 4chan is actually legit.

20-25% accounts for whatever they had done for Versus XIII by 2012. Are you really this dense?

Stop fucking making excuses for Nomura by blaming it on FF13 or whatever the fuck else.

 

[Hey Everyone]

It was specifically because Versus was not working out, how the fuck can you even deny this fact? It's such an intrinsic detail known to anyone who has followed the development of Versus to XV, that they turned Versus to XV and made the story changes because Versus wasn't working out as intended, hence them rebooting it to XV in 2012, making the changes, etc. Even Kingsglaive started production in 2013.

No, Versus being a trilogy is not a fact, it has never once been officially stated that Versus was going to be a trilogy by either Nomura, Tabata or any official source. All that was said was multiple sequels, that could mean anything from 1 game and 1 movie, 3 sequels, 4 sequels, 2 sequels and 1 spinoff sequel. Things like Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children are sequels to FFVII, there was never any detail given to what this other games or whatever for Versus would have been, or if it was even going to be a trilogy. Stop spouting this unsourced nonsense already.

The only reason they are adding in things to better explain Ravus is because people are idiots and didn't see what was plainly there. Versus was not going to work out and the fact that it was turned into XV is fucking proof of it, it was specifically because Versus wasn't working out the way they were trying to that they rebooted Versus into FFXV in 2012, so that it could work out, and it did as XV.

"The leaker" Fucking please, stop this shit. Random 4chan leaker has not been verified at all, at best what he says is plausible but it is not a fact. Again just because the May 25th 2016 leak about story details were true does not mean that every single person claiming to be someone from the XV team "leaking" stuff on 4chan is actually legit.

20-25% accounts for whatever they had done for Versus XIII by 2012. Are you really this dense?

Stop fucking making excuses for Nomura by blaming it on FF13 or whatever the fuck else.

From the leaker himself who was spot on about the plot of FFXV in it's entirety.

Why did Nomura leave FFXV
Because of said Nomura trilogy hopes, and because Square would rather have him on KH3 and FF7 remake. With Nomura it would have been good, but would have taken way more time just to get part 1 out, like an extra 2 years

Also when they made Final Fantasy Versus XIII into Final Fantasy XV the Versus concepts were still very much there, and I mean in their entirety Stella, and all.
No they are adding cutscenes because a lot of stuff happened off screen not because people are idiots, they are also fixing Luna as well.

Does really help when Tabata said nothing was cut out, but apart of me just hopes it was not getting around to it due to time constraints.

 

[T.O.T]

@Bazztek Even though I did my best to pay attention to FFXV's story, there are still some questions that I do have. If more info is going to be dealing with Ravus, I won't turn it down. Perhaps it is head canon on my end, but I originally assumed he'd played a bigger role..or at the least have a bigger focus. I believe at some point in the past Nomura did mention the possibility of there being multiple parts to the Versus XIII games, but that never happened so no need to dwell on it. I think it is okay to put some blame on SE during the PS3 era. XIII wasn't the only problem area as FFXIV was also going through a revamp, but correct me if I am wrong. We'll never know the details in full, and I do agree that Nomura is partly to blame.

 

[Slaintimez]

From the leaker himself who was spot on about the plot of FFXV in it's entirety.

It was different leakers tho. First one was "TheGuy", last leak about Versus was just noname guy, who could possibly just made up things, and since he didn't even bother mention about ring, its safe to assume that is bullshit, because ring always been part of the game.
Anyway, anything could sound good on paper.

 

[Hey Everyone]

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/07/yoko-shimomura-final-fantasy-xv-soundtrack/

A direct quote from Shimomura herself, a composer who has has connection with Versus XIII since inception. I suppose this is trivial as well?



Wat


The entire project of Versus XIII.

Tabata: “Quite some time has passed now… After we had switched from Versus to XV, the first decision we made was to make sure that FFXV would have a complete, coherent story in one game. That was an important decision—one made at the company level, too. So I started thinking about how we could get a full, coherent story in a single game. And the crux of that was which elements from Versus we could carry over and which would not fit into the new structure as XV.


Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/0...i-any-more-says-director/#msc81bemv88UiY3c.99

Also yes I'm aware the very basic concepts of Versus XIII are still in the game like the roadtrip, Leviathan, bonding, yes the very basic elements and scenarios are still in XV, but they are poorly told story wise, but some of the other important elements like the FNC, Stella, eyes that see the light of expiring souls was gutted from FFXV.

Also what I mean by 25% I mean what was in that 25% of the Versus project that's what I want to know and why it was scrapped. I'm aware it was 25% percent of Versus XIII part 1

 

[Hey Everyone]

It was different leakers tho. First one was "TheGuy", last leak about Versus was just noname guy, who could possibly just made up things, and since he didn't even bother mention about ring, its safe to assume that is bullshit, because ring always been part of the game.
Anyway, anything could sound good on paper.

I'm not talking about Versus guy don't really care about him I'm talking about the one that leaked this

There's a full script as of nov, its just changing because it's a mess.
>opens 10 years in the future fighting ifrit
>real game starts, being sent off for wedding
>on the way hear city got invaded
>set out to collect weapons of dead kings to be powerful and take back crystal
>also have to catch up to luna who's waking up summons
>when you get to luna red haired guy kills her
>everybody is sad for a while
>red hair guy reveals he's 2000 years old
>Noctis has to sleep for 10 years to gather magic into kings ring to fight him
>Noctis gets out and the group fights him in main city
>Ifrit first, then normal red head, then monster version of him
>Noctis wins
that's it.

Which makes me say should've made this game a multi-parter oh dear.

Also he was the same guy that said this
"2.Because of said Nomura trilogy hopes, and because Square would rather have him on KH3 and FF7 remake. With Nomura it would have been good, but would have taken way more time just to get part 1 out, like an extra 2 years"

 

[Bazztek]

From the leaker himself who was spot on about the plot of FFXV in it's entirety.

Also when they made Final Fantasy Versus XIII into Final Fantasy XV the Versus concepts were still very much there, and I mean in their entirety Stella, and all.
No they are adding cutscenes because a lot of stuff happened off screen not because people are idiots, they are also fixing Luna as well.

Does really help when Tabata said nothing was cut out, but apart of me just hopes it was not getting around to it due to time constraints.

The leaker who mentioned the story stuff was also wrong on multiple points so what does it matter what else he said? He was only right about the story beats he mentioned.

You are literally clinging to the word of someone you don't even know how they got access to the story info, also just so you know that leak happened during the same time frame as E3 Judges week when press got to play builds of E3 showcase games weeks in advance.

Whoever Stella was in Versus in 2008/9 or 2011 is not the same "Stella" that existed in 2013 when the game was revealed to be XV. Stella in Versus was stated by Nomura to be someone Noctis meets for the first time as an adult, the "Stella" we see in the 2013 XV trailer is a shown as a little girl running alongside kid Noctis showing they know each other as kids, that is a major change in the foundation of what their relationship was stated to be in Versus compared to what we were now being shown in 2013. Whoever the "Stella" in the 2013 trailer was she was Stella only in name, not the same exact character from Versus, and that childhood friendship angle was used as Luna, even the design of "Stella" got slightly modified to be Luna's design, same with the kid "Stella" now used as the kid Luna design.

The actual themes of Versus are bonds, brotherhood, tragedy and those are the exact themes used in XV. They are adding more scenes to Ravus because people were unable to piece things together and need long drawn out cutscenes to explain things to them. Even before XV was out I called what Ravus's motivation would be for doing what he does, and I was completely right, how? Because I payed attention.

And no Tabata did not say nothing was cut out, he said they didn't cut things out of necessity, meaning they did cut things out. We don't know why scenes like the Dawn trailer hugging of Regis and Noctis isn't in the final game, but that falls under an unnecessary cut in my opinion.

@T.O.T I'm not against adding in more things for Ravus or anyone, but to say that you can't understand him or his arc is blatantly intellectually dishonest.

 

[T.O.T]

but some of the other important elements like the FNC

I could understand them wanting to part ways with the FNC given how a lot of people associate that with the FFXIII games, which a good number of people don't like. Also, I believe the FNC may have had too much lore to properly fit into a single installment, hence why XIII and Type-0 both have some format of datalogs. I personally don't have a problem with data logs, but other people do.

 

[Bazztek]

Tabata: “Quite some time has passed now… After we had switched from Versus to XV, the first decision we made was to make sure that FFXV would have a complete, coherent story in one game. That was an important decision—one made at the company level, too. So I started thinking about how we could get a full, coherent story in a single game. And the crux of that was which elements from Versus we could carry over and which would not fit into the new structure as XV.


Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/0...i-any-more-says-director/#msc81bemv88UiY3c.99

Also yes I'm aware the very basic concepts of Versus XIII are still in the game like the roadtrip, Leviathan, bonding, yes the very basic elements and scenarios are still in XV, but they are poorly told story wise, but some of the other important elements like the FNC, Stella, eyes that see the light of expiring souls was gutted from FFXV.

Also what I mean by 25% I mean what was in that 25% of the Versus project that's what I want to know and why it was scrapped. I'm aware it was 25% percent of Versus XIII part 1

Please tell me how is whatever story of Leviathan in XV poorly told compared to what the "story" of Leviathan was? And this is not about the setpiece surrounding fighting Leviathan. How the actual fuck is bonding "poorly told" in XV? It's what you are doing pretty much the entire game and why the ending and the final campfire scene has so much emotional impact, because of all the bonding you experienced through the game not only in the story but in the gameplay through battles, through banter, through the photos, through camping, through on tour quests etc.

The FNC was changed to Cosmogony, Stella changed to Luna, whatever those eyes that see the light of expiring souls were was changed, by the way Noctis still see's the souls of

Spoiler

Luna and Regis

in the game, as well as the souls of the past kings of Lucis, who are possessing weapons called Phantom weapons, weapons that when activating the Armiger act as if they are possessed by a ghost, a phantom is a ghost. This stuff is not gutted, it's core aspects in XV.

You are literally clinging to hearsay and basing your entire argument on them as if they are fact

 

[T.O.T]

@Bazztek

Spoiler

You may disagree on this sir, but I don't feel Ravus had much of an arc at all. I don't believe he got played a lot on the radios either. I understood why he was angry, but I didn't understand the lust to acquire more power. Maybe there was something I had overlooked during Kingsglaive perhaps or during the campaign?

 

[Bazztek]

I'm not talking about Versus guy don't really care about him I'm talking about the one that leaked this



Which makes me say should've made this game a multi-parter oh dear.

Also he was the same guy that said this
"2.Because of said Nomura trilogy hopes, and because Square would rather have him on KH3 and FF7 remake. With Nomura it would have been good, but would have taken way more time just to get part 1 out, like an extra 2 years"

That was also the same guy that said there would be no alternate costumes other than black outfits and was wrong on multiple other points, he also said that

Spoiler

all the bros are fine at the end of the game but we know Noctis dies at the end.

Just because he got some of the story beats right does not make everything he said true.

 

[Bazztek]

@Bazztek

Spoiler

You may disagree on this sir, but I don't feel Ravus had much of an arc at all. I don't believe he got played a lot on the radios either. I understood why he was angry, but I didn't understand the lust to acquire more power. Maybe there was something I had overlooked during Kingsglaive perhaps or during the campaign?

Spoiler

So just from whatever little we saw of him in Kingsglaive I got the impression that he is just putting up a front, that he is only acting as the "lapdog" of Niflheim just so he can get access to the ring, he's rising in the ranks by committing to this Niflheim life specifically so he can even get close enough to it, getting access to the ring is what would give him power, the power he wants so that he can protect his sister, because Ravus is also royalty he would have felt he had some claim to it. Mix in things like his disdain for Regis for not doing anything to save their mother, the previous Oracle and you have a perfect cover that he just tells Niflheim and even Luna so that no one suspects his true intentions.

While he is at first against Noctis he comes to accept him by realizing he is truly worthy.