FFXV discussion thread [No Spoilers]

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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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Yup, far too much misplaced anger towards the chapter itself. You know theres something up when a good amount of users start questioning the reactions around it, i'm not buying the "well if you read impressions you probably might like it better lol" argument either.

I feel the linear nature & length of the previous chapters during the second half (or even just some people not finding any satisfaction with the game entirely) may have been the bigger culprit that lead up player frustrations once they reached chapter 13.
My own theory is that it's a matter of trust in the storyteller. Chapter 13 is often frustrating and unpleasant by design, but whether an individual blames that frustration and displeasure on in-universe forces or the game developers themselves depends on the amount of trust that individual had in the devs going into the chapter. Hearing impressions before playing probably just makes people more reflective about the source of their frustration and displeasure in that particular chapter, which might sometimes be to the game's benefit.

I do think it's worth considering why that particular chapter in particular triggered feelings of breach of trust, though... and I think the reliance on text-based after-the-fact storytelling had a lot to do with it. Adding a few meaty cutscenes could go a long way, I suspect.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
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It's so true though.

After I was finished with the chapter, the first thing than came to mind was "That's it? This is meant to be the worst chapter in the history of gaming?"

Extremely overblown and just goes to show that people are being influenced by sheep mentality thinking. They're letting other people's opinion influence their own.

Sad that gamers get more spoiled and bratty the more developed and advanced games become.
 

T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
I
Sad that gamers get more spoiled and bratty the more developed and advanced games become.
How true is that though? Do the vocal minority cover the thoughts and mentality to the T with the rest of the people that have at least played through the campaign? I would personally like to say no. Besides, some people were going to complain about FFXV rather it was justified or not regardless anyway.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,651
1,369
How true is that though? Do the vocal minority cover the thoughts and mentality to the T with the rest of the people that have at least played through the campaign? I would personally like to say no. Besides, some people were going to complain about FFXV rather it was justified or not regardless anyway.
My comment was specifically referring to people's reaction to Chapter 13, and how spoiled and bratty they sounded when talking about it.

The negative reaction to ch13 was one of the most overblown things I had ever seen.

I'll admit, I braced myself for the worst when word got out about just how "bad" the chapter was. When I played it for myself, I came to the conclusion that, unfortunately, people seem to have gotten on the hate bandwagon because everyone else was on it. It's a serious case of self fulfilling prophecy.

It's no different from people who originally enjoyed the game, but then they joined a forum where posters were predominantly bashing and hating on the game, then they slowly turned into those very same people because they hung around them for too long.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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Don't blame Tabata blame Square goddamn management, my god they really should have waited till Nomura was done part 1 of FFXV, and Kingdom Hearts 3 before shipping him off to do the 7 Remake, I think a lot of people would have been fine with that, or hell they should at least made FFXV multi-part it could have used it, much more than FFXIII mmm so salty, I'm so salty. They spread themselves so thin, also would have been great if they just dumped that turkey called Luminous and went with Unreal Engine 4.

I'm very very salty right now waited for this game for about 7 years man, loved all the Versus concepts, and I wanted them to build upon it, not throw it away oh Square, right now I'm not so sure if I want to be excited about that FF7 Remake anymore, hell I don't even want them to do a Final Fantasy XVI at this point, I'd rather they do a Versus XV Trilogy, X-3, and Type-Next, hell even a FFXIII-4. They need to test that Luminous Engine out to make sure it's absolutely ready for prime time, so we don't have another FFXV on our hands(Story being trimmed, gameplay great, but the world could have been better)
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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They didn't throw away all of Versus XIII's concepts though.
The stripped some important elements(eyes that see expiring souls, etro, as well as poorly condensed a multi-game story which the leaker who spoke about and was spot on about the XV plot said was going to be a trilogy like the 7 remake(?),FFXIII(which didn't need it). If the game had the exact same lore as is, but they spanned it out into a trilogy which would allow them to flesh out people that were seen as important in the trailers and barely got seconds of screen time in the actual game, and if the Versus XIII plot leak is to be believed, they would have been incredibly more important to the plot more so than what DLC can and will ever do with these characters, if spanning it out into a trilogy would have allowed them to really work on that Leviathan fight, then I wouldn't have minded a year or two of development time.

Also Tabata himself said that FFXV is not Versus XIII anymore
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
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Never said they kept "everything" in, but people really devalue the stuff they actually kept within XV.

right now I'm not so sure if I want to be excited about that FF7 Remake anymore, hell I don't even want them to do a Final Fantasy XVI at this point
Why?

if spanning it out into a trilogy would have allowed them to really work on that Leviathan fight
If the rumour from 4chan is true about engine problems, the 2013 Leviathan event would be the last thing to expect (outside of Versus XV in general). Even the heartless war from KH2 which initially had many different enemies including behemoths on-screen had to be cut down to what it is now due to hardware limitations on the PS2.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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Never said they kept "everything" in, but people really devalue the stuff they actually kept within XV.


Why?


If the rumour from 4chan is true about engine problems, the 2013 Leviathan event would be the last thing to expect (outside of Versus XV in general). Even the heartless war from KH2 which initially had many different enemies including behemoths on-screen had to be cut down to what it is now due to hardware limitations on the PS2.
It's because they showed so many great things in the other trailers, the stuff they kept in seems trivial, especially when the very noticeable stuff is taken out, and I'm not just talking about the 2006-2011 trailer, I'm talking about the 2013 trailer, hell even FFXV had stuff that would have greatly improved the games narrative cut out(ie the Dawn Trailer WTF happened to that trailer)

When I get excited for something, and the final product is entirely different, and in some cases for the worst(see Leviathan, and that condensed story (see no mention of Stella, but she seemed to have more screentime with Noctis, and overall seemed interesting(Her chat with Noctis about Etro, the light, and focuses, and their supposed duel(didn't even need to be a love story), and tbh apart from story condensation I see no reason as to why they replaced her with Luna to begin with, instead of just improving her character, and building upon it), changes that can happen within the years, and about FFXVI they haven't given me any reason to be excited for it, especially after the state that FFXV came in, that's going to be fixed with patches, I honestly can't be excited after that electric bugaloo, they need to give the mainlines a rest for a bit until they actually have a plan I don't want another FFXV to happen where you show me stuff that actually gets me interested in it(the 2011 trailer, I never saw the Stella trailer, but she seemed pretty interesting I wish they simply improved upon what didn't work instead of removing her entirely, and I wish Nomura's concept could have been built upon even if the director was Tabata himself, and it doesn't get much better when he said that none of the story was cut due to time constraints, and the 2013 Trailer because my god that trailer was the best FFXV trailer for me.

So It wasn't hardware limitations then, it was because of their engine, so because they had to get the game out in 2016, and engine problems the Leviathan fight isn't even close to that awesome sauce trailer feels bad man.

Sometimes apart of me wishes that they made a Final Fantasy XV with no ties to Versus XIII if they wanted to do something different, and actually made Final Fantasy Versus XIII using Unreal Engine 4 if Luminous was causing troubles.
In fact you know what, I wish that Final Fantasy Type-Next was made in Luminous with Tabata at the helm instead of them adding Versus XIII in FFXV knowing full well it wouldn't be the Versus people were looking forward to, then let Nomura and his team use Unreal Engine 4 for Final Fantasy Versus XIII, or if they wanted to call it FFXV fine. I think they should have committed to one or the other if your going to make Final Fantasy Versus XIII which FFXV was originally advertised as then commit to it, actually do it, if you are not going to then don't, don't add any Versus elements, don't add Stella, don't add Noctis, Ignis, Gladio, or Prompto, just have it be it's own thing, and a great game in it's own right, not haunted by the ghost of Versus that would loom over it's head if it's not the original project.
 
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Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
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I don't see how existing content such as the road trip aspect, tragedy, & bonds count as trivial. Like, at all. There is a reason i bought up devaluation.

Execution and alterations all things considered, it doesn't change the fact that those themes that were there since Versus are present in XV.

Projects are always subject to change, E3 2013 and footages that followed even had reminders of non-finalized WIP that were inevitably going to be different in the final build.

Now mind you 2013 was before the director shift happened ti'll the end of December, hence other changes, as well as FFXV having a rocky development in general. But lets not pretend we were 100% guarenteed to have every last bit of concepts delievered even under Nomura (even despite KH, that franchise has never went through the same kind of hurdle Versus XIII/XV did). Even then, having Square Enix go back and magically reboot FFXV into the "Versus XIII" people envisioned going off of past footages is not only a gigantic waste of R & D time + expenditure, it'll send the message that they had no faith in the product and will divide the audience hard. Not to mention it the odds of it selling as much as XV proper would be incredibly low.

The rumour definitely mentioned console limitations alongside the engine. No dispute about that. And as i said, the heartless war in the final build of KH2 is nowhere near the content in the initial trailers either due to facing limitstions, and that was a Nomura game. I highly doubt the the CG Tech Demo Levi wouldn't have met the same fate on consoles especially when Luminous was already under way for 2013 FFXV in the porting process.
 
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llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
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I don't see how existing content such as the road trip aspect, tragedy, & bonds count as trivial.
The Concepts and Skeleton of the game is accurate to what Nomura was going for. But they were not developed to their full potential. It has no meat on those bones of the Skeleton. That meat was scrapped. The core concepts arent actually "content" but more of a outline of the game that was kept.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
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I don't see how existing content such as the road trip aspect, tragedy, & bonds count as trivial. Like, at all. There is a reason i bought up devaluation.

Execution and alterations all things considered, it doesn't change the fact that those themes that were there since Versus are present in XV.

Projects are always subject to change, E3 2013 and footages that followed even had reminders of non-finalized WIP that were inevitably going to be different in the final build.

Now mind you 2013 was before the director shift happened ti'll the end of December, hence other changes, as well as FFXV having a rocky development in general. But lets not pretend we were 100% guarenteed to have every last bit of concepts delievered even under Nomura (even despite KH, that franchise has never went through the same kind of hurdle Versus XIII/XV did). Even then, having Square Enix go back and magically reboot FFXV into the "Versus XIII" people envisioned going off of past footages is not only a gigantic waste of R & D time + expenditure, it'll send the message that they had no faith in the product and will divide the audience hard. Not to mention it the odds of it selling as much as XV proper would be incredibly low.

The rumour definitely mentioned console limitations alongside the engine. No dispute about that. And as i said, the heartless war in the final build of KH2 is nowhere near the content in the initial trailers either due to facing limitstions, and that was a Nomura game. I highly doubt the the CG Tech Demo Levi wouldn't have met the same fate on consoles especially when Luminous was already under way for 2013 FFXV in the porting process.
Of course there are those themes, but those themes could have existed anywhere else, they could have existed in a FFXV unrelated to Versus, what most people talk about in relation to Versus are the FNC elements, Stella, the Citadel fight, and Leviathan that don't even look good in the actual game.
It's fine that projects are always subject to change, but that should really only be from a technical level not from story, characters, so one and so forth, and if you are going to change it from the technical level at least make still make it great from the limitations you have.
I agree some stuff would have probably changed under Nomura, but I sincerely doubt it would be to the extent that Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy Versus XIII don't even take place in the same universe, you can two different earths with that cut content.
I'm not going to go to deep into the Versus XV thing, but that so called reboot as the rumors put it, would also serve the role of a sequel, it's not a singular release titled Versus XV, it's equivalent to FFXV's original trilogy vision as in a Versus XV would be part 1, with Part 2, and a Part 3 to tie it back to XV's ending. FFXV wasn't supposed to be a singular release. They could market it as a sequel and most of the people that bought FFXV wouldn't even know, and to them it would actually show a good amount of faith the way you put it seems like they are making FFXV the Nomura Directors Cut well of course they wouldn't do that, but if we are talking about 3 games, made with premade assets, I can't see why not unless Nomura doesn't want to which is fare.
Also I read the same thing about the console limitations, the guy said the engine didn't do well with console limitations, so it was very much engine related, hell he was even asked as to why they used it and it was because the company forced them to.

Also Kingdom Hearts 2 1000 heartless battle was still great, and was still very much a 1000 heartless battle, and was overall a kickass fight, and considering it was the PlayStation 2 it's understandable.
 
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T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
My comment was specifically referring to people's reaction to Chapter 13, and how spoiled and bratty they sounded when talking about it.

The negative reaction to ch13 was one of the most overblown things I had ever seen.
Ah okay. Thank you for the clarity. I see where you're coming from better now.
 
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Bazztek

Keyblade Master
May 26, 2014
719
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So according to this thread.

This is just a "skeleton"




But this is fully "fleshed out".



Really makes you think.




 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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So according to this thread.

This is just a "skeleton"




But this is fully "fleshed out".



Really makes you think.




FFXV isn't fleshed out on it's own without Versus, when you take Versus into consideration, it's like a completely different beast entirely that uses parts of Versus, and parts of an original game, when it should have just been an original game, and let Versus be it's own thing.