Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Bazztek

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May 26, 2014
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i would have to disagree with that since you can see giant robed winged figures in previous artworks; even that panel just discovered with a grim reaper giving something to a human indicates they were real creatures.

im not sure if Stella was totally placeholder or they simply planned to not change her design too much initially?
The only Death God related thing in Versus/early XV was Etro from FNC, the imagery of "reapers" in the in world statues and artwork is just simply because the people worshiped Etro the goddess of death, and as a result they (SE) decided to use familiar death related imagery (like a grim reaper) to represent that from an in world perspective in the game, not because there was tons of reapers going around doing stuff as part of the story. Whatever that art is showing shouldn't be taken literally, but metaphorically. Whatever that reaper thing is is really in all likelihood just a stand in for Etro herself, or an allusion to her in reverence, as she is the Death Goddess, not just a death goddess. Like them having statures and decorations that looked like skeletons with wings can just be attributed to them literally worshiping Etro the goddess of death, and as such they adorn their society in decorations that reflect the worship to the goddess of death, hence a statues of a robed reaper or artwork of skeletons.

Like even looking at that mural artwork of the prophecy shows the Oracle at the top whom we can interpret as Luna, with the king of light and his sword sworn by him whom we can interpret as Noctis and the bros, the Astrals on the sides and the kings of old behind him, and those two robed figures attacking the Daemons below are just representations of hooded figures in black doing the kings bidding, which sounds a lot like the kingsglaive, as they are cloaked in black and wear their hoods up and are commanded by the king, rather than being a reaper like the literal visage resembles. The Oracle at the top even has wings and is drawn with her eyes shut, signifying she had died but was still watching over the chosen king from above, much like Luna said she would do for Noctis. And on that note, the artwork itself is simply just an in world artistic interpretation of the prophecy, and the in world explanation was that the painting was created a hundred years ago. One of the sword sworn even has bandages on his eyes, implying Ignis going blind has always been part of the prophecy too.

Another thing to note is that prophecy artwork was done by Yuki Matsuzawa who was not part of the Versus team, that artwork was created after Tabata became the director in December 2013 but before Ep Duscae in March 2015.

On that note regarding Reapers, the enemy called Reaper in the game was designed by Hasegawa who was the monster designer on the game and had been the monster designer since it was Versus too. (though the reaper does look kinda Nomura-ish with those belts lmao)



So in all likelihood these same Reapers would have been enemies when it was Versus/early XV too.

Back in 2010 Nomura mentioned that Noctis would wear a ring on his right hand as the only "accessory" that he wears, it's likely that at that point the ring originally came from Etro, but since they changed the story and replaced the FNC with Cosmogony and had it so the ring came from Bahamut instead, it made the ring now come from Bahamut instead of come from Etro, but the ring still casts death and has a strong tie to the concept of death and souls, and Bahamut and the Lucii still ask for blood prices too.

Also the 2013 trailer mentions "Lucii" and Regis was stated to be holding up a magical barrier around Insomnia even back then too, and the powers of Noctis with the Armiger, "Phantom Sword" as it's called in Japanese, always was in reference to the weapons being possessed by the souls, hence the phantom sword name. Even the text description from the first 2006 trailer mentioned that Insomnia is a "Modern Civilization protected by an ancient line of kings", maybe at one point they didn't have giant statues of the old kings possessed with their souls in it, but that concept sounds very much in line with the kind of thing it was trying to convey regardless, as Insomnia is literally a modern civilization that is literally protected by the ancient line of kings, so much so that it's called the old wall.


I think people are just looking way to much into what little actual story related "reaper" stuff there was, most of it being a bunch of imagery that was there as allusions to Etro, and in that really it was just Etro the goddess of death that was wosrhipped by Lucis and also by Tenebrae, mind you I'm not saying there wasn't more of a focus on the concept of Death in the story, since with the whole Etro stuff obviously it would have been there, I'm just saying it probably really wasn't as prominent as you think. Etro is worshipped as the goddess of Death even in Lightning Returns too, and there is murals of her in that too, I really don't think it would have amounted to any more than whatever LR did with it's Etro stuff.

Regarding Stella, she did get replaced with Luna once Kingsglaive had started in October 2013, and originally Luna had the same Roen dress as her and also wore her hair down like her, since really Luna is just a modified version of the 2013 Stella design. There is previs stuff even from mid 2015 and well after Kingsglaive had started in Oct 2013 where Luna still was wearing the white Roen dress and wore her hair tied up and also down, like I mentioned earlier, Kingsglaive originally had the same CG artstyle as the game until 2015 when they changed it, they even made CG renders of Luna and Nyx in their original pre 2015 Kingslgaive designs, where Luna looked like game Luna just in that Roen dress, and Nyx didn't use his models facial scan yet either. The design of Regis as we see him in the 2011/2013/2014 trailer is what Regis was also originally going to look like in Kingsglaive, prior to the change in 2015.

There was some artwork in the artbook that is Visual Works concept art showin


And at that time Luna still had the white Roen party dress and wore her hair down too, which is reflected in this artwork here of her (despite her design being basically identical to 2013 Stella's at the time)


You can see in the previs here that in early CG tests with Nyx and Luna that Luna still had the white Roen dress and wore her hair down, this stuff was created sometime between October 2013 and 2015.


I managed to spot some displays that SE have at their office, this is from Luminous Productions aka BD2s office during a livestream about that NHK documentary, this person had some standees with old CG renders of the original Kingsglaive version of Luna and Nyx on their desk, with Luna with her hair tied up but in the Roen dress, and Nyx in his original outfit and design too.





Which is his design based on his original 2D artwork, which judging by the artstyle is by Yusuke Naora, who also mentioned that he was involved in choosing the cast that will be in Kingsglaive.



You can see here Luna with her hair tied up but also still in the white Roen dress during Kingsglaive in a previs shot.
 
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Vallen

Forest Owl
Mar 4, 2018
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I think my biggest hope for EP Ardyn is for them to explain some more divine lore of the XV universe. I'm very curious to see if they alter/add-on to the hierarchy and introduce a deity that oversees the summons/crystal.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
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The only Death God related thing in Versus/early XV was Etro from FNC, the imagery of "reapers" in the in world statues and artwork is just simply because the people worshiped Etro the goddess of death, and as a result they (SE) decided to use familiar death related imagery (like a grim reaper) to represent that from an in world perspective in the game, not because there was tons of reapers going around doing stuff as part of the story.
its possible that is the case but im still not convinced,

Tabata stated "in Versus 13 Lucis was set as a country of Reaper worship. This setting is a violation of the age rating criteria for games in some countries, so we cannot push this theme".

which implies a more expanded adoration of these death figures (rather than just Etro), and then we have the proeminence of giant robed entities, even in this artwork; i think they were more than decoration, anyway i guess we'll have the definitive anwser with more source material, hopefully.
 
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Bazztek

Keyblade Master
May 26, 2014
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its possible that is the case but im still not convinced,

Tabata stated "in Versus 13 Lucis was set as a country of Reaper worship. This setting is a violation of the age rating criteria for games in some countries, so we cannot push this theme".

which implies more expanded adoration of these death figures (rather than just Etro), and then we have the proeminence of giant robed entities, even in this artwork; anyway i guess we'll have the definitive anwser with more source material, hopefully.
Well firstly, Tabata's statement there was just a literal translation someone did from his Japanese post, and not conveying the same meaning his Japanese post had, where he specifically said Shinigami, again because Etro is literally the Shinigami and it's what she's referred to as in the two Versus trailers that she's mentioned in, so when he said they worship Shinigami, that got translated to "reaper worship" because whoever translated his post just did a literal translation as Shinigami is often translated to as reaper in English, even though the context was regarding Etro, the Shinigami, aka the Death goddess being worshiped. Etro was the only death goddess that anyone worshipped, there was never anything to suggest anything otherwise and even the dialog we do have only points to Etro being the sole Shinigami that is being worshipped, whoever translated Tabata's statement on the forum post did a poor job and just did a literal translation of his words and not his meaning.

Him mentioning that it's a violation of age rating in some countries is in reference to China and their strict laws regarding showing skeletons and stuff, like even the Skeleton and Reaper daemon in the game were changed for the Chinese version of the game, and that itself is just one of the reasons that contributed to them changing stuff in the game, but not the sole reason, there was multiple factors involved but he only mentioned one of the reasons for it there.

Giant robbed figures don't mean Reapers, and that artwork was done in 2014/early2015 by Isamu Kamikokuryo depicting Luna fleeing from Insomnia, long after they had already changed FNC stuff into Cosmogony, as both the prophecy artwork and that art of Luna escaping Insomnia were in Ep Duscae in March 2015 and were artwork created after Tabata became director, not before it. In an earlier concept of the Insomnia attack when Tabata took over there was the Astrals involved too, where one artwork you posted earlier was actually of Shiva dead in Insomnia, and that artwork of Luna escaping when mapped to the time period it would have been created along with Shiva being in Insomnia and dying there makes it far more likely that that is an earlier Ramuh who was also in Insomnia. Odin was in fact a summon that was supposed to be in the game as he is listed in the datamine, so in 2015 they were still making changes to the story regarding the lore and the astrals and all that.

There is also artwork even from 2015 after Regis's design had changed, which was mid 2015, where the present day Noctis and co were in Insomnia at the time of Regis's death with Noctis holding Regis in his arms and Regis giving him the sword of the father, so there was still story changes happening even in 2015, but this whole "reaper" stuff was solely just about a single entity related to death that they worshipped, which is Etro, and anything related to that and the FNC had changed already by the time Tabata took over as director in December 2013. If you remember in the Dawn trailer in 2015 there was a scene of Noctis leaning on the Regalia while in Insomnia and looking up to the sky, it's likely that at that point in 2015 we would have returned to Insomnia when they were still young and Noctis would have witnessed Regis's death, but they were also making Kingsglaive at that same time, which kicked into full gear around Q3 2015, and that is probably what resulted in the changes to that.
 
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Likes: Nova
Feb 19, 2018
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I think my biggest hope for EP Ardyn is for them to explain some more divine lore of the XV universe. I'm very curious to see if they alter/add-on to the hierarchy and introduce a deity that oversees the summons/crystal.
I doubt they'll add another deity last minute that we only ever briefly see and hear of in Episode Ardyn. A likely 2 hour episode just simply isn't enough time to cover Ardyn's extensive history and involvement in the world of XV along with his history with his brother, the crystal, and the already existing Astrals in addition to completely new info out of the blue. In all likelihood we'll get an expansion on existing points of information like Bahamut's ties to the Lucis Caelum family, the crystal's role and origin explained in more detail, the structure of the hierarchy among the known Astrals, etc but yeah introducing completely new info and major lore changing characters last minute in a side episode would draw the ire of many people I would imagine since the game already gets major flak for not including so many big events and characters in the main story as is.
 
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Storm

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Oct 26, 2013
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I think my biggest hope for EP Ardyn is for them to explain some more divine lore of the XV universe. I'm very curious to see if they alter/add-on to the hierarchy and introduce a deity that oversees the summons/crystal.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/16-more-things-we-learned-about-final-fantasy-15/1100-6430160/

Tabada did say something about a goddess:

"The woman in the Final Fantasy XV logo--drawn by series artist Yoshitaka Amano--isn't necessarily Etro, the goddess of death mentioned in earlier trailers for Final Fantasy Versus XIII. She is, however, the most important goddess in XV's world, and Amano's original sketch of her was the inspiration for her character."

given the tradition of naming the planet as their gods in XIII, i would say Eos might be the name of that goddess; but since the logo is actually a depiction of Luna in the end i think they changed plans or something (or she became a divine entity who knows).


btw i credited the user that shared those KG screens in the original post (it was Blinding Awesomeness from the reddit/discord community).
 

Bazztek

Keyblade Master
May 26, 2014
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About the Vulkan thing for FFXV PC, what kind of benefits would it bring again besides improved performance?
I don't know much about it but as far as I know it's mainly an optimization boost and greatly improves scalablility, it's how DOOM 2016 was able to run on Switch. It basically does what DX12 offers but isn't locked to Windows like DX12 is and is a more programmable API, giving more control over things and in turn allowing better efficiency.
 

Storm

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Giant robbed figures don't mean Reapers
well they dont necessarily do but they can mean, especially in the context of this project.




this seems like a historical depiction of when the ancient lucians received a gift (possibly the ring), literally a reaper interacting with humans; if only Etro was the real entity i would believe they would choose to depict her here instead of another figure (unless she is also depicted that way lol but given the logo and amano painting i doubtly so); of course this is not enough to confirm anything but the imagery is too present to be just a thematic decoration in my opinion (there are more reaper depictions than of Etro herself).
 
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stolas

Sphere Hunter
Feb 20, 2018
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Looking at that article that you posted Storm I wanted to point out something:

"Several new locations were revealed: the Venice-inspired city of Altissia, a series of floating islands set among waterfalls and waterways; Lestallum, a town inspired by Cuba built on top of a massive crater containing a meteor that provides the area with its energy; and Hammerhead, a mechanic's station where players will be able to service the Regalia, Noctis' car. The team also revealed Caem, a port city where Noctis and his friends can find boats."

One of the many aspects that I found strange was how there were no other real towns or cities found on Lucis other than Insomia (which is isolated) Lestallum or Meldacio but there is a large population roaming around the continent. I think it was another missed opportunity not having more towns in places like Gauldin Quay or Caem. Like I'm fine if they weren't explorable but I think seeing Gauldin that had a small city on the cliff side (think of Positano or Manarola, Italy) destroyed in the World of Ruin would have more of an impact to the story.
 
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Vallen

Forest Owl
Mar 4, 2018
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One of the many aspects that I found strange was how there were no other real towns or cities found on Lucis other than Insomia (which is isolated) Lestallum or Meldacio but there is a large population roaming around the continent. I think it was another missed opportunity not having more towns in places like Gauldin Quay or Caem. Like I'm fine if they weren't explorable but I think seeing Gauldin that had a small city on the cliff side (think of Positano or Manarola, Italy) destroyed in the World of Ruin would have more of an impact to the story.
Absolutely. Also remember in those early 2014 "tech behind FFXV trailers" we saw a 3D mold of EOS and it was huge, the actual game's map was about 50-55% of what they originally had planned. I think it would have made more sense for them to have stated in the game that the "adventures in EOS" took place in the Eastern side of the continent (where the ports of Caem and Quay were located) and that the bros were in too much of a rush to get to Altissia to explore/liberate the other parts of the nation/continent. Trying to convince the player that the whole country has 2.5 cities and can be driven across in 15min is a bit silly given the fantasy based on reality theme.
 

Dorothy95

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Jan 5, 2018
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Absolutely. Also remember in those early 2014 "tech behind FFXV trailers" we saw a 3D mold of EOS and it was huge, the actual game's map was about 50-55% of what they originally had planned. I think it would have made more sense for them to have stated in the game that the "adventures in EOS" took place in the Eastern side of the continent (where the ports of Caem and Quay were located) and that the bros were in too much of a rush to get to Altissia to explore/liberate the other parts of the nation/continent. Trying to convince the player that the whole country has 2.5 cities and can be driven across in 15min is a bit silly given the fantasy based on reality theme.
that was a thing that always bothered me a bit, that there wasn't a lot of people walking around and there was insomnia and then nothing, like 2 small cities etc. like how are we gonna believe its a whole thing? could say that we can only explore part of it. but then, there are places like nyx's original home (can't remember the name) that weren't mentioned later in the game (eh let's ignore the whole movie).
as for their designs, i feel like they chose a very similar actor for nyx's redesign. such a pity they never released that render of luna in stella's dress. the shoes i have always found horrible (high heels converse is just a no...)but dress was quite pretty. and had skulls on the belt xD well, at least the black version roen put on display had. i feel like nyx's old clothes were a bit similar to luna's new dress - those drapes... xD
 

SonOfEtro

Warrior of Light
May 2, 2016
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Looking at that article that you posted Storm I wanted to point out something:

"Several new locations were revealed: the Venice-inspired city of Altissia, a series of floating islands set among waterfalls and waterways; Lestallum, a town inspired by Cuba built on top of a massive crater containing a meteor that provides the area with its energy; and Hammerhead, a mechanic's station where players will be able to service the Regalia, Noctis' car. The team also revealed Caem, a port city where Noctis and his friends can find boats."

One of the many aspects that I found strange was how there were no other real towns or cities found on Lucis other than Insomia (which is isolated) Lestallum or Meldacio but there is a large population roaming around the continent. I think it was another missed opportunity not having more towns in places like Gauldin Quay or Caem. Like I'm fine if they weren't explorable but I think seeing Gauldin that had a small city on the cliff side (think of Positano or Manarola, Italy) destroyed in the World of Ruin would have more of an impact to the story.
That article's from 2015, when there were several different bits of both lore and gameplay that didn't end up being as stated. They were still in development, and had to meet that 2016 deadline. The future of the Final Fantasy franchise was riding on it, and they were working with a team that had once been both a toxic subject in the company and was on the verge of collapse following Versus XIII's failure.

I don't put a lot of faith in that GameSpot article personally. I prefer the later 2016 one. That has info that's still current and accurate.

I doubt they'll add another deity last minute that we only ever briefly see and hear of in Episode Ardyn. A likely 2 hour episode just simply isn't enough time to cover Ardyn's extensive history and involvement in the world of XV along with his history with his brother, the crystal, and the already existing Astrals in addition to completely new info out of the blue. In all likelihood we'll get an expansion on existing points of information like Bahamut's ties to the Lucis Caelum family, the crystal's role and origin explained in more detail, the structure of the hierarchy among the known Astrals, etc but yeah introducing completely new info and major lore changing characters last minute in a side episode would draw the ire of many people I would imagine since the game already gets major flak for not including so many big events and characters in the main story as is.
I'm not so sure about that. From the sound of it, the team are going to do a major shift in the lore, allowing all the characters to live and get the wished-for "happy ending" this season is intended to deliver. As it stands, they can't do that. So they either need to undercut themselves so badly that it'll get just as much ire from fans, or add something new.

There is one get-out for them. It's been established that the Crystal is both semi-sentient and a gift from the planet Eos itself. So they could give Eos a divine presence in the form of an avatar or a voice (such as the voice speaking in the alternate route of Episode Ignis), and it wouldn't be completely breaking the lore.
 

stolas

Sphere Hunter
Feb 20, 2018
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That article's from 2015, when there were several different bits of both lore and gameplay that didn't end up being as stated. They were still in development, and had to meet that 2016 deadline. The future of the Final Fantasy franchise was riding on it, and they were working with a team that had once been both a toxic subject in the company and was on the verge of collapse following Versus XIII's failure.

I don't put a lot of faith in that GameSpot article personally. I prefer the later 2016 one. That has info that's still current and accurate.

I am aware of how production cycles work. I'm aware that usually beginning concepts don't always make it to the finalized product. Yet I am pointing out one of the many glaring issues that didn't make sense in the overall narrative. You have a whole continent. There is a large population of people roaming around, driving in cars. Yet there are at most two major residences they could stem from: a small town and a small city (The count comes to 7 residences for all of Eos). I would include Insomnia but you don't see or hear about any refugees other than Monica, Dustin, Talcott, Cor, and Iris. They could have easily made assets like they did in Tenebrae, non explorable far off housing structures on the cliff sides next to the beach In Gualdin Quay and Caem to give the world a much more populated feeling. That is simple planes or cube geometry with projected textures. Think of what FFVII-X, XII did for their cities towns. 60%-90% of those areas weren't explorable but it filled out the world and when the disaster struck (Think of every FFIX city) it held much more weight.
 
Feb 19, 2018
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That article's from 2015, when there were several different bits of both lore and gameplay that didn't end up being as stated. They were still in development, and had to meet that 2016 deadline. The future of the Final Fantasy franchise was riding on it, and they were working with a team that had once been both a toxic subject in the company and was on the verge of collapse following Versus XIII's failure.

I don't put a lot of faith in that GameSpot article personally. I prefer the later 2016 one. That has info that's still current and accurate.


I'm not so sure about that. From the sound of it, the team are going to do a major shift in the lore, allowing all the characters to live and get the wished-for "happy ending" this season is intended to deliver. As it stands, they can't do that. So they either need to undercut themselves so badly that it'll get just as much ire from fans, or add something new.

There is one get-out for them. It's been established that the Crystal is both semi-sentient and a gift from the planet Eos itself. So they could give Eos a divine presence in the form of an avatar or a voice (such as the voice speaking in the alternate route of Episode Ignis), and it wouldn't be completely breaking the lore.
Well like I said expanding the crystal's role and lore is doable, but they just can't introduce an entirely unrelated deity. I've always said that the Crystal is what the Astrals answer to and it is what's at the top of their hierarchy so if they wanna expand upon it by tying in a more tangible divine presence like say Eos herself being the crystal (or what's left of Eos) then cool but again adding in an unrelated deity that's supposedly been overseeing every other Astral this whole time is what I'm opposed to. It's gotta tie in with the Crystal if they wanna add anything new.

My main theory for Episode Noctis is that since the description only mentions Noctis parting ways with the Astrals and not the Crystal he directly asks the Crystal for the perfect solution. Episode Ignis opened up the possibility that Noctis can actually command the Crystal or at least ask for its power and do things out of the norm with it such as overturning a sacrifice of the ring and effectively saying "fuck you" to the Lucii. Maybe he does something similar but on a larger scale, where he cuts out the Astrals as the middlemen and directly asks the crystal to change his fate? I always did feel that for a chosen king Noctis always had little to no agency of his own so if the alternate ending comes about from him saying "no, I want to try another way" and the Crystal working with him then that would be pretty cool.
 
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Storm

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Lucis felt more like a region/state to me rather than a continent, too many outposts, towns and gas stations looking the same for that (not a problem really).

but i think the biggest letdown was the lack of wildlife and npcs activities outside cities which made the world feel empty.

remember this?



yeah me too

 
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Feb 19, 2018
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Lucis felt more like a region/state to me rather than a continent, too many outposts, towns and gas stations looking the same for that (not a problem really).

but i think the biggest letdown was the lack of wildlife and npcs activities outside cities which made the world feel empty.

remember this?



yeah me too
Honestly while a lot of this is really cool I wouldn't be surprised if it was all ultimately toned down because the current gen of consoles just couldn't run these many complex and dynamic behaviors for every single NPC in the world. I still remember back when Assassin's Creed Unity was coming out and they boasted some of the largest and most dynamic crowds you'd ever see in a game with the Paris crowds all acting and reacting in accordance to what was happening around them. Then the game came out and none of the systems could handle it so they had to tone back the crowds and even had to patch in an animation that, from a lore perspective, justified the pop-in character models that they were never able to fix which I thought was clever but yeah some of these things are toned back a lot because the consoles just can't feasibly handle them.

Square also just has a bad habit of making it seem like that's what we're getting until the very last moment by showing it off so much that you start to think "wow they're really confident about this." even though behind the scenes they've already changed said things. They hype you up with concept trailers that aren't representative of what the product looks like way too much and they honestly just need a new marketing team altogether. lol