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You know I wouldn't mind if they just made XVI Final Fantasy Versus XV, I know that some would mind, but honestly at this point, I wouldn't give a shit.
That being said though, If they do make Versus XV it should be multi-part like Versus XIII was supposed to be, I don't want it to suffer the same problems as XV.
Oh and I hope Nomura takes a shit ton of ideas from KH3, and the VII Remake if he indeed is interested in this project. and uses everything from the concept trailers, EVERYTHING.
That being said though, If they do make Versus XV it should be multi-part like Versus XIII was supposed to be, I don't want it to suffer the same problems as XV.
Oh and I hope Nomura takes a shit ton of ideas from KH3, and the VII Remake if he indeed is interested in this project. and uses everything from the concept trailers, EVERYTHING.
realistically, if they made Versus XV as XVI it would probably suffer more changes lol
even with nomura the game changed (designs, scenes, gameplay ideas) because it all comes down to the tech and ideas; as times goes by new ideas, inspirations and possibilities comes in, nomura even expressed his desire to make Versus/XV a musical at some point.
you guys are desiring something utopic, which makes you all look like desperate children; it's literally impossible that the original "pure" Versus will release; even nomura's mind might've changed by now which would lead to new things added and changed.
edit: just to give you an idea:
early in development they considered an overworld map like the PS1 titles.
a lot of scenes in the first trailers were all prototype and not scenes in-game (the scene of noctis facing multiple soldiers in the palace changed a lot in the first XV trailer, now its noctis with his friends confronting the soldiers in day-time, the original one was way more epic and darker with him alone in the night)
stella's face changed, clothes for the main characters and ravus as well; design of the car is redone; i really liked the clean look of the early Versus than the more detailed stylised new designs.
you all should be thankful that most of what we knew about the project remained, given the 10 year time-span
- designs
- realistic worldview
- characters
- basic plot (crystal is stolen, last king of its line must take it back)
- focus on road trip and friendship
- gameplay mechanics like warp, armiger
- ost
finally, versus apologists should grow the fuck up and enjoy what they have (hopefully this is my last post about the issue).
even with nomura the game changed (designs, scenes, gameplay ideas) because it all comes down to the tech and ideas; as times goes by new ideas, inspirations and possibilities comes in, nomura even expressed his desire to make Versus/XV a musical at some point.
you guys are desiring something utopic, which makes you all look like desperate children; it's literally impossible that the original "pure" Versus will release; even nomura's mind might've changed by now which would lead to new things added and changed.
edit: just to give you an idea:
early in development they considered an overworld map like the PS1 titles.
a lot of scenes in the first trailers were all prototype and not scenes in-game (the scene of noctis facing multiple soldiers in the palace changed a lot in the first XV trailer, now its noctis with his friends confronting the soldiers in day-time, the original one was way more epic and darker with him alone in the night)
stella's face changed, clothes for the main characters and ravus as well; design of the car is redone; i really liked the clean look of the early Versus than the more detailed stylised new designs.
you all should be thankful that most of what we knew about the project remained, given the 10 year time-span
- designs
- realistic worldview
- characters
- basic plot (crystal is stolen, last king of its line must take it back)
- focus on road trip and friendship
- gameplay mechanics like warp, armiger
- ost
finally, versus apologists should grow the fuck up and enjoy what they have (hopefully this is my last post about the issue).
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Preferably they should go back to the Kingdom Hearts esque combat system, and magic system
You do realize that most of the people that want Versus just simply want stuff from the 2010-2013 trailers right, some actually would have just preferred if XV was just it's own game not tied to Versus.
XV didn't commit to anything it ended up being the jack of all trades, and didn't master what it needed to be in the first place and here we are, so please grow the fuck up and understand that some are not satisfied with a partial cut down Versus XIII, that stripped things that got people interested in it in the first place, and even on it's own is a disappointing game in of itself hell the whole reboot Versus thing probably shows how well they did with the main characters, but horrible with everything else, and with the leak revealing why things are the way they are, they shat the bed, sold on Versus hype, cut it down because they had no faith in XV being action based, and the wasted potential is there clear as crystal. You don't care for Versus then leave, go to the XV news thread or discussion thread. Also are you seriously going to bring up the musical thing? It was more of a oh this would be a cool thing to do, not that he was actually going to do it. Also changes in designs you mean the concept designs? The scene between Noct and Stella didn't change, and when the game became XV in 2013 it was still recognizable as Versus XIII as in what you saw in the 2011 Trailer would play apart of the game itself, and we saw better things than in the 2011 Trailer. XV 2013 was simply a more advanced Versus XIII, and that's what people wanted, and that's what XV just needed to be.
You do realize that most of the people that want Versus just simply want stuff from the 2010-2013 trailers right, some actually would have just preferred if XV was just it's own game not tied to Versus.
XV didn't commit to anything it ended up being the jack of all trades, and didn't master what it needed to be in the first place and here we are, so please grow the fuck up and understand that some are not satisfied with a partial cut down Versus XIII, that stripped things that got people interested in it in the first place, and even on it's own is a disappointing game in of itself hell the whole reboot Versus thing probably shows how well they did with the main characters, but horrible with everything else, and with the leak revealing why things are the way they are, they shat the bed, sold on Versus hype, cut it down because they had no faith in XV being action based, and the wasted potential is there clear as crystal. You don't care for Versus then leave, go to the XV news thread or discussion thread. Also are you seriously going to bring up the musical thing? It was more of a oh this would be a cool thing to do, not that he was actually going to do it. Also changes in designs you mean the concept designs? The scene between Noct and Stella didn't change, and when the game became XV in 2013 it was still recognizable as Versus XIII as in what you saw in the 2011 Trailer would play apart of the game itself, and we saw better things than in the 2011 Trailer. XV 2013 was simply a more advanced Versus XIII, and that's what people wanted, and that's what XV just needed to be.
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Seriously though Versus XV should be multi-part, XV suffered from being one game, that shit is way too condensed. Oh and space the games between 2 years of each other like FFXIII, It would be much better for the quality of each title, don't do the dot hack way of doing it, that would be terrible their won't be that much of quality different between the two. The only thing of the FNC they should keep from Versus is Etro, they can keep the Astrals, Daemons, and what not even though personally I would prefer them to use Eidolons it reminds me of Final Fantasy IX. Oh and Kingdom Hearts menu battle system, I also hope plays similar to Kingdom Hearts, not a big fan of the hold O to attack, just let me press buttons, let me mash.
Though if they don't keep Etro or anything from the FNC, have gods that function similarly as long as this scene
makes it into the game(Game 1)
Oh and this tijme do the Citadel fight
Though if they don't keep Etro or anything from the FNC, have gods that function similarly as long as this scene
Oh and this tijme do the Citadel fight
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Yeah, I also think that making the whole FF series (XVI, XVII and so on) about failed products is the right call. Fuck fans of the whole 30 year old series as long as I get my idealized version of an edgy-looking KH that didn't even get to exist properly to come true, right? Fuck fans that have been waiting for something new ever since 2006.
I'll still engage here because I find some of the arguments fun (especially as I take breaks from studying or whatever), but holy fuck, there's not moving on and then there is this. I take it you aren't a fan of the series and only of Nomura/the game, right? There's nothing wrong with that, but wew.
For the sake of an argument, though: ever wondered about Nomura himself? If I, a random dude on the Internet, am exhausted of the same talk about the same game, imagine how he might feel, having worked for a decade in a game that didn't release the way he intented to and that made him the laughing stock of the industry. Nevermind having two of the potentially biggest games S-E has in the works (also with prolongued enough development times, to the point where KH is approaching the 5 years mark and with a seemingly huge game divided into god-knows how many parts).
I won't presume to know the man, but I'd be very surprised if he even wanted to touch anything FF XV/Versus related with a ten foot pole, especially if he felt offended by S-E handling of the situation. And that's even if S-E asked him to do such thing, but that's a different story.
I'll still engage here because I find some of the arguments fun (especially as I take breaks from studying or whatever), but holy fuck, there's not moving on and then there is this. I take it you aren't a fan of the series and only of Nomura/the game, right? There's nothing wrong with that, but wew.
For the sake of an argument, though: ever wondered about Nomura himself? If I, a random dude on the Internet, am exhausted of the same talk about the same game, imagine how he might feel, having worked for a decade in a game that didn't release the way he intented to and that made him the laughing stock of the industry. Nevermind having two of the potentially biggest games S-E has in the works (also with prolongued enough development times, to the point where KH is approaching the 5 years mark and with a seemingly huge game divided into god-knows how many parts).
I won't presume to know the man, but I'd be very surprised if he even wanted to touch anything FF XV/Versus related with a ten foot pole, especially if he felt offended by S-E handling of the situation. And that's even if S-E asked him to do such thing, but that's a different story.
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@Tornak
I remember I wrote a post about Nomura potentially feeling exhausted and emotionally pained about the whole Versus and XV gig awhile back.
It makes sense if you put yourself in his shoes. If that were me, I wouldn't want to work on that anymore because I wouldn't feel like that was my own anymore, since other people "ruined" it. The anger and aggression towards those who worked on something that was originally "mine" would eventually lead to one wishing they never brought it into the world to begin with.
I'm not bashing Tabata at all btw. I don't think Tabata ruined anything. I'd say he managed to salvage the situation.
I'm just speaking from the perspective of a creator. When you create something, you really don't want anyone else touching it. You get possessive and aggressive if others touch it. You want it your way because you gave life to it and you think it's unique.
If you're a creator, then you'd understand where I'm coming from.
The people who keep asking for Versus to be revived don't understand this mindset at all.
Cuz if they did, they'd know that Nomura wouldn't want to go back to Versus unless he wanted to ruin and self sabotage himself emotionally.
This is just my take on the situation and may not reflect Nomura's thought process at all. Although since Nomura is a creative person, I don't think his thought process would be too far from what I just said.
He said in an interview that creating games was one way for him to work out his aggression. That should give you an idea on what he thinks.
I remember I wrote a post about Nomura potentially feeling exhausted and emotionally pained about the whole Versus and XV gig awhile back.
It makes sense if you put yourself in his shoes. If that were me, I wouldn't want to work on that anymore because I wouldn't feel like that was my own anymore, since other people "ruined" it. The anger and aggression towards those who worked on something that was originally "mine" would eventually lead to one wishing they never brought it into the world to begin with.
I'm not bashing Tabata at all btw. I don't think Tabata ruined anything. I'd say he managed to salvage the situation.
I'm just speaking from the perspective of a creator. When you create something, you really don't want anyone else touching it. You get possessive and aggressive if others touch it. You want it your way because you gave life to it and you think it's unique.
If you're a creator, then you'd understand where I'm coming from.
The people who keep asking for Versus to be revived don't understand this mindset at all.
Cuz if they did, they'd know that Nomura wouldn't want to go back to Versus unless he wanted to ruin and self sabotage himself emotionally.
This is just my take on the situation and may not reflect Nomura's thought process at all. Although since Nomura is a creative person, I don't think his thought process would be too far from what I just said.
He said in an interview that creating games was one way for him to work out his aggression. That should give you an idea on what he thinks.
I mean, there are many different kinds of approaches to artistic creation (of whatever kind) and, while Nomura doesn't strike me as an overtly possesive kind of guy in that sense (he shares the director's chair, as well as allows people's ideas and lets others write the games), he probably doesn't feel like doing this anymore for the reasons you mentioned.
Dude is in his forties now; I doubt he wants to spend another 2-3+ years doing what he unsuccesfully tried to do 10 years ago (especially as he has some of the biggest Japanese games ever in the works). The mere thought is depressing. When you do one specific thing for that long and when that thing never takes off, your energy gets drained really fucking fast. KH3 and FF VII-R are probably blessings in disguise, especially for a guy as energetic (as a producer, artist and director) as him.
People already have an image of Noctis and the rest of the characters, with their own journey and that, whatever that was good or bad. They even have a picture of Eos and a big part of the gameplay mechanics and, presumably, a chunk of the original vision's storyline (maybe much more faithful to the overall general scenario of Versus that most would imagine).
What do you if Tabata's XV actually has the exact same ending as Versus? What if the biggest hallmarks of the Versus overall scenario were met in XV (characters' fates, motivations and backgrounds, as well as events and plot twists)? Make Nomura change it? That would changing his vision™!
Whatever comes after that would be proving that XV was a mistake and would alienate people: S-E making such a thing (unless it was a DLC or an expansion à la Hearts of Stone or Blood and Wine) would be them admitting a defeat from a creative standpoint and, in passing, offending Tabata and his whole team. The sooner they leave behind this embarrasing ordeal, the best for them and for us.
Dude is in his forties now; I doubt he wants to spend another 2-3+ years doing what he unsuccesfully tried to do 10 years ago (especially as he has some of the biggest Japanese games ever in the works). The mere thought is depressing. When you do one specific thing for that long and when that thing never takes off, your energy gets drained really fucking fast. KH3 and FF VII-R are probably blessings in disguise, especially for a guy as energetic (as a producer, artist and director) as him.
People already have an image of Noctis and the rest of the characters, with their own journey and that, whatever that was good or bad. They even have a picture of Eos and a big part of the gameplay mechanics and, presumably, a chunk of the original vision's storyline (maybe much more faithful to the overall general scenario of Versus that most would imagine).
What do you if Tabata's XV actually has the exact same ending as Versus? What if the biggest hallmarks of the Versus overall scenario were met in XV (characters' fates, motivations and backgrounds, as well as events and plot twists)? Make Nomura change it? That would changing his vision™!
Whatever comes after that would be proving that XV was a mistake and would alienate people: S-E making such a thing (unless it was a DLC or an expansion à la Hearts of Stone or Blood and Wine) would be them admitting a defeat from a creative standpoint and, in passing, offending Tabata and his whole team. The sooner they leave behind this embarrasing ordeal, the best for them and for us.
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Likes:
Jubileus
I get what you two are coming from, but personally speaking, i'm really not buying into any theory of Nomura holding resentment towards current XV.
If i where him i'd still be thankful for the team even bothering to realize my game at all (even with issues, its still a fun game), especially since after how much they expressed and ended up preserving plenty of core elements such as the themes & characters (ignoring Stella) from Versus XIII to XV proper. I have little doubt that while Nomura may have felt somewhat disappointed, he holds no grudge at all towards what BD2 whipped out.
If i where him i'd still be thankful for the team even bothering to realize my game at all (even with issues, its still a fun game), especially since after how much they expressed and ended up preserving plenty of core elements such as the themes & characters (ignoring Stella) from Versus XIII to XV proper. I have little doubt that while Nomura may have felt somewhat disappointed, he holds no grudge at all towards what BD2 whipped out.
Oh, I didn't mean him having any kind of ill will to BD2, far from it. I meant the project in itself, which is reminiscence of a failure of yours (whether Nomura is blameless or not). He's been in this industry for a long time, enough for him to understand why things like this might happen.
The key word would be dissapointed and tiredness, I guess. But that might me extrapolating how I might have felt in his situation: we don't know the guy, so hey, who knows!
The key word would be dissapointed and tiredness, I guess. But that might me extrapolating how I might have felt in his situation: we don't know the guy, so hey, who knows!
Ah, I see.
Though my comment was directed more at Nomura's feelings of how FFXV itself turned out in the end, rather than the whole thing from Versus XIII to XV entirely + any potential animosity being held at BD2 staff. My apologies if it came off that way. But you are correct in that we don't have a 100% concrete answer on Nomura's personal thoughts anyway, whats done is done really.
Though my comment was directed more at Nomura's feelings of how FFXV itself turned out in the end, rather than the whole thing from Versus XIII to XV entirely + any potential animosity being held at BD2 staff. My apologies if it came off that way. But you are correct in that we don't have a 100% concrete answer on Nomura's personal thoughts anyway, whats done is done really.
Likes:
Tornak
I would pay good money to have an extended post-mortem of the game (with him talking about the end product) and a good documentary of the whole decade-long process. The little tidbits we've heard, while small, are fascinating, like the latest Tabata interview, or Ferrari's comments and leaked design of Umbra's human form:
All FFs (and games, really) have huge "what-ifs" (down to a mainline one originally being a spin-off, like IX), but XV takes the cake.
All FFs (and games, really) have huge "what-ifs" (down to a mainline one originally being a spin-off, like IX), but XV takes the cake.
Likes:
Storm and Nova
I wonder if Versus XV does happen, I wonder if Square will get Platinum games to help out, they know how to make a great combat system, them and the Kingdom Hearts team.
Versus XV BD3+ Platinum Games just that alone would make it a masterpiece.
BD3 can do great, but I don't know if I'd put them up there with Blade Moding Platinum Games, i'd say they trade blows. If it's just BD3, or BD1 I'd be fine with it, but It would be even better if Platinum helped out. Then again I don't know since I doubt Platinum would know how to use the Luminous Engine that well.
After Part 2 of the FF7 Remake, Final Fantasy Versus Part 1 oh and have Umbra's human form this time, and have Stella Nox Fleuret just say she's Luna with a different past and life circumstances.
Oh and touch upon the mysterious gods this time, and the eyes that see expiring souls, and have better bosses this time especially that Leviathan fight, that's probably one of the reasons I wished FFXV was multi-part so instead of wasting time of the latter half of the game it could have ended at the Leviathan fight which means we resulted in a better Leviathan fight since they would have been allowed to devote more time to the boss fight..
Versus XV BD3+ Platinum Games just that alone would make it a masterpiece.
BD3 can do great, but I don't know if I'd put them up there with Blade Moding Platinum Games, i'd say they trade blows. If it's just BD3, or BD1 I'd be fine with it, but It would be even better if Platinum helped out. Then again I don't know since I doubt Platinum would know how to use the Luminous Engine that well.
After Part 2 of the FF7 Remake, Final Fantasy Versus Part 1 oh and have Umbra's human form this time, and have Stella Nox Fleuret just say she's Luna with a different past and life circumstances.
Oh and touch upon the mysterious gods this time, and the eyes that see expiring souls, and have better bosses this time especially that Leviathan fight, that's probably one of the reasons I wished FFXV was multi-part so instead of wasting time of the latter half of the game it could have ended at the Leviathan fight which means we resulted in a better Leviathan fight since they would have been allowed to devote more time to the boss fight..
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I would pay good money to have an extended post-mortem of the game (with him talking about the end product) and a good documentary of the whole decade-long process. The little tidbits we've heard, while small, are fascinating, like the latest Tabata interview, or Ferrari's comments and leaked design of Umbra's human form:
All FFs (and games, really) have huge "what-ifs" (down to a mainline one originally being a spin-off, like IX), but XV takes the cake.
All FFs (and games, really) have huge "what-ifs" (down to a mainline one originally being a spin-off, like IX), but XV takes the cake.
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Seriously though Final Fantasy XVI can be put on the back burner, maybe when they get their story telling edge back they can work on it, until then I don't really care about it at this point if XV is anything to go on, if their story telling doesn't improve then you know what I won't care about their next mainline title especially if they go ATB fuck that battle system.
WORLD OF VERSUS: FINAL FANTASY XV series(directed by Tetsuya Nomura) actually do Versus XIII this time, you know the game people were looking forward to since 2006-2013 yeah that game without the developmental issues this time, and all the cuts.
Final Fantasy Type-1(directed by Hajime Tabata)
Final Fantasy VI Remake(directed by Hiroyuki Ito)
Final Fantasy IX Remake
Final Fantasy VIII Remake
World of Final Fantasy sequels
Dissdia FF 2015 sequel
WORLD OF VERSUS: FINAL FANTASY XV series(directed by Tetsuya Nomura) actually do Versus XIII this time, you know the game people were looking forward to since 2006-2013 yeah that game without the developmental issues this time, and all the cuts.
Final Fantasy Type-1(directed by Hajime Tabata)
Final Fantasy VI Remake(directed by Hiroyuki Ito)
Final Fantasy IX Remake
Final Fantasy VIII Remake
World of Final Fantasy sequels
Dissdia FF 2015 sequel
