Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

Tornak · Feb 8, 2017

I wasn't referring to your timeframe in regards to XVI (I feel it's way too conservative, but it wouldn't be shocking). We agree that, in order for another situation like in XIII and XV (and, to a lesser degree, XII), they need to plan it out so that they have enough time, resources and people working on such a big game. I also perfectly know that game developing is not the same anymore (and mentioned such thing some weeks ago, I think in the XVI's speculation thread).

The problem is that, if they tackle on all those titles that you mentioned, XVI wouldn't be receiving all the care that such a title could be receiving, and its priority would be pretty low, like what happened with Versus all those years. I know about the different internal divisions, but it's still something that would affect that particular game's development in a way or another, and those people would be better off working at new IPs or helping with what are supposed to be the next big titles (VII-R, KH3 and XVI), rather than retreating and doing the same thing all over again.

It's also about brand fatigue (both ours and the developers') and awareness. What need did they have to revisit FF X? Yes, X-2's battle system was great, probably the best in the series, but beyond that, X didn't warrant a sequel, and much less one done like that. Those gameplay elements could have been used for a different project, be it a FF or not. It's why I'm happy about the seemingly new approach with DLCs and expansions, even though I'm not a big fan of how they're usually dealt with by companies.

I really don't understand wanting S-E to spend 3 or more years on something that we've been fucking seen for 10 years and that wouldn't be that different compared to what we actually ended up getting, as flawed as XV is. Clinging to the same thing and not moving on seems exhausting to me (as well as a time waste, as I strongly believe that they're not doing XV sequels or a reboot with Nomura's take on the game).

Basically, I don't want to be over 30 and still be waiting for XVI to release, having only a FF backlog that is all reboots, remakes and spin-offs. The fact that they would still working on XV in some way or form at that age would be depressing, considering that the first trailer was released when I was 13.

Hey Everyone · Feb 8, 2017

Tornak said:

If they were working on the titles I mentioned above, FFXVI could end up having a bigger budget assuming the games mentioned above are great games, and sell well. Also if FFXVI was developed for the 9th generation of systems and under BD5 it will probably get enough time and care, since that game will probably be more concise with it's vision as oppose to having a generation change decided in 2011 which probably blew up the vision of Versus XIII, and also faith in the vision itself might overall be better than Versus XIII. I think what caused Versus XIII to get the end of it was probably because it didn't work on the PS3, the director was working on a lot of things at the time, and obvious engine issues, so it's possible that if all those games released on the PS4, they could get developing FFXVI and a FFVI Remake.

Also it's priority being low would probably have more to do with it being released on next gen systems than the other titles mentioned, granted Dissidia might not need a sequel.

Tornak · Feb 8, 2017

Hey Everyone said:

Thing is, I'm not disputing your XVI's potential date, nor the possibility (and maybe need, if they have just started) of it being a next-gen title. What I'm saying is that just because that game might take a while, you don't necessarily have to tackle on a plethora of unwanted sequels and spin-offs, especially because they've ALWAYS been half-assed and uncalled for in this series and because they, even though they would reuse many assets, would still take a lot of time and money.

S-E has an extensive enough IP library to fill those gaps (both the Western and the Japanese one; hell, the Japanese one could use a new big IP). That's the same way that TakeTwo doesn't tell Rockstar to pump out GTA/RD/MP sequels and spin-offs in between the mainline titles: they can rely on their franchises to do that, allowing free space, lack of saturation and exhaustion and, especially, time to work on those things.

Instead of investing in potentially profitable games, why not use existing, actual profits (XV sales, XIV subs...) and invest that on another title that would surely grab more attention than pipe-dreams reboots or unnecessary sequels? Following that logic, XVI would never be made, because there's always that "potential".

I guess it all comes down to how tired I am in regards to this series: I'm incredibly jaded when it comes to this, because the potential is there. Ten years on standby and they're finally now able to do new things. Do whatever you gotta do with XV's DLCs and post-game support, and get all your assets on delivering games that definitively shouldn't have been announced when they were (VII-R and KH3. They never learn, do they?).

So yeah, maybe you shouldn't listen to me regarding this topic, as I've got very strong opinions when it comes to this :happymog:

.

Ikkin · Feb 8, 2017

Hey Everyone said:

The part of your post that I quoted was very easy to misinterpret, then. >_>;

I don't think consoles would be able to abandon physical discs even if they had PC levels of market freedom, though. There's always going to be a market that wants to buy games at launch (before the usual PC fire sales) and sell them before the price drops too much, there's always going to be a market for game preservation (which has already effectively abandoned PC, for obvious reasons), and there's always going to be a market which considers it far more convenient to buy a disc than to download 50GB of data on slow or capped internet lines (which has, again, effectively abandoned PC).

Must you always link to misinterpretations of people's statements then treat those misinterpretations as fact? Here's the Polygon article that one uses as a source, which says nothing about Sony changing their minds about DLC.

"There were lots of people who gave their opinions on that issue to my Twitter account before E3," SCE Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida told Famitsu magazine this week. "It's not that our hardware policies are decided strictly based on user reaction like this, but when we were thinking about what we had to bring across and how to bring it across, it was a very useful source."

That doesn't sound like Sony changed its mind about DRM policies at the last minute (which would be absurd). That sounds like Sony changed its E3 plans to take advantage of Microsoft's massive mistake.

And, for the record, Sony explicitly denied having had similar plans to Microsoft at any time:

House explains why Sony decided to leave well alone: "There's an interesting backstory on that. I guess, dating from about our February event, there had been questions about what our online policy would be. And I have to say that we were slightly perplexed, because we had no intention of changing from a model that I think has served us really well for several platform life-cycles. And then, of course, it was really the actions of others, and the reaction coming from consumers, which led to more speculation. So we felt that with E3, and Monday night's press conference, it was a really good opportunity to set the record straight. But there weren't any changes that we'd been considering."

Microsoft wasn't just a big company doing what any big company would do if they thought they could get away with it. It was a particularly out-of-touch big company making decisions that baffled even the other big companies in its segment, and it does no one any good to lose that perspective.

Tornak said:

To be fair to Squenix, they actually had a good strategic reason for announcing those games early -- they needed a JP console audience to sell JRPGs to, and promising FF and KH games for PS4 seemed like it could help foster that audience.

It seems pretty clear now that there's little anyone can do to save console gaming in Japan, but that doesn't mean it didn't make sense to at least try in 2013 and 2015.

Tornak · Feb 8, 2017

Ikkin said:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I totally understand why they did it, especially as there's another big player here (Sony) that really wanted to stay as relevant as possible in Japan. But it's still irresponsible, considering how bad your image already is, precisely because of doing those things. S-E was (and well, is) a laughing-stock when it comes to games development for a reason.

I mean, my concept of ideal situation is not announcing a game in a hyping event and then staying silent for months and even years, only responding with generic, worth of jokes phrases like "development is steadily progressing and the next presentation video has been already planned for a specific date, please be excited". It's not a good look and it doesn't inspire confidence. But I guess that that didn't work out as badly as it could with XV...

Ikkin · Feb 8, 2017

Tornak said:

In KH's case, there's a third entity -- Disney -- complicating things further, so it's hard to say how much fault Squenix has there. Some of the things Nomura has said about the game make it obvious that Disney determines what gets shown when, with many of the game's more extensive showings being at Disney events.

Squenix's PR team should definitely do something about the Versus-era stock phrases that keep being used with regards to FFVIIR, though, because reminding people of that debacle is worse for their reputation than simply refusing to take questions about VIIR in the first place. They might have been better off saying something like, "We expect VIIR-1 to take at least 3-4 years to develop" and going on radio silence until they had something to show.

Tornak · Feb 8, 2017

Ikkin said:

Indeed, the KH 3 situation is muddy in that Disney has a big control over it, afaik. It's still irresponsible, though, so in the case they had pushed them to announce the game, the only thing that would change would be dividing their shares of blame.

And true that, too. I guess they're not that aware (or they don't really care) about how much of a joke "please, be excited" or their other bland RP statements have become. Also, I'm expecting translations from Japanese to also have a big role there.

But still, they have to be somewhat aware of how ridiculous these interviews are (the latest one in which Nomura answer to questions pertaining VII-R and KH3 is INCREDIBLY reminiscent of the Versus days; granted, he was asked this question and he wasn't the one bringing it up, but considering they had showed the magazine a presentation video of VII-R, he could have handled the situation better. Or ask the magazine not to ask these questions for the time being in exchange of, I don't know, more future info when they're able to release it).

Hey Everyone · Feb 8, 2017

Ikkin said:

The part of your post that I quoted was very easy to misinterpret, then. >_>;

I don't think consoles would be able to abandon physical discs even if they had PC levels of market freedom, though. There's always going to be a market that wants to buy games at launch (before the usual PC fire sales) and sell them before the price drops too much, there's always going to be a market for game preservation (which has already effectively abandoned PC, for obvious reasons), and there's always going to be a market which considers it far more convenient to buy a disc than to download 50GB of data on slow or capped internet lines (which has, again, effectively abandoned PC).

Must you always link to misinterpretations of people's statements then treat those misinterpretations as fact? Here's the Polygon article that one uses as a source, which says nothing about Sony changing their minds about DLC.

"There were lots of people who gave their opinions on that issue to my Twitter account before E3," SCE Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida told Famitsu magazine this week. "It's not that our hardware policies are decided strictly based on user reaction like this, but when we were thinking about what we had to bring across and how to bring it across, it was a very useful source."

That doesn't sound like Sony changed its mind about DRM policies at the last minute (which would be absurd). That sounds like Sony changed its E3 plans to take advantage of Microsoft's massive mistake.

And, for the record, Sony explicitly denied having had similar plans to Microsoft at any time:

House explains why Sony decided to leave well alone: "There's an interesting backstory on that. I guess, dating from about our February event, there had been questions about what our online policy would be. And I have to say that we were slightly perplexed, because we had no intention of changing from a model that I think has served us really well for several platform life-cycles. And then, of course, it was really the actions of others, and the reaction coming from consumers, which led to more speculation. So we felt that with E3, and Monday night's press conference, it was a really good opportunity to set the record straight. But there weren't any changes that we'd been considering."

Microsoft wasn't just a big company doing what any big company would do if they thought they could get away with it. It was a particularly out-of-touch big company making decisions that baffled even the other big companies in its segment, and it does no one any good to lose that perspective.

To be fair to Squenix, they actually had a good strategic reason for announcing those games early -- they needed a JP console audience to sell JRPGs to, and promising FF and KH games for PS4 seemed like it could help foster that audience.

It seems pretty clear now that there's little anyone can do to save console gaming in Japan, but that doesn't mean it didn't make sense to at least try in 2013 and 2015.

DLC? Did I mention DLC in my post, if so my apologies, I meant, they changed their original policy on used sales, evidence points to Sony having considered it with the patents they filed.
http://www.ibtimes.com/sony-files-patent-curb-access-used-video-games-1005876

Also if consoles had the same freedom as PC, when it comes to digital buyers, then yes I could honestly see the end of physical discs for consoles as well.

If digitally the consoles could easily:
Find sales, and buy from anywhere that sells games
Crack a game if it gets delisted from stores(see Far Cry 4 Xbox One)

Then that could easily kill the physical market for consoles.

llazy77 · Feb 8, 2017

Hey Everyone said:

I'd rather they save FFXVI for the PlayStation 5 launch, I think they should work on spin-offs and better yet remakes, before they get a mainline out, as well as sequels, I'd rather have a Type-Next before a FFXVI at this point.

I think for the eighth generation Square should do the following
The FF7 Remake(Trilogy?)
FF Dissidia Reboot(It's a reboot)
Final Fantasy X-3
Final Fantasy Type-Next
Final Dissidia Reboot Sequel
Final Fantasy VIII Remake
Final Fantasy Versus XV

Save Final Fantasy XVI as a launch title for the PlayStation 5, Xbox Two, Super Nintendo Switch, and Steam.

Great List we need a ff6 remake as well.

llazy77 · Feb 8, 2017

Hey Everyone said:

They didnt have enough dev time to make driving off road possible, the car gets stuck even now they are having trouble with it. I still feel like the car shouldnt move alot more freely tho instead of being magnetized to the road. When you are driving the car in chapter 13 it actually moves pretty freely.

Ikkin · Feb 8, 2017

Tornak said:

I think the announcement was a Squenix/Sony thing rather than a Disney thing... but I don't think it was the wrong thing to do, either. It's not like a new IP or a new FF that's completely disconnected from previous games. Everyone knew KHIII would be a thing eventually, so announcing that it was in development didn't really make any promises that hadn't already been made.

It's the way that things have been handled since then that's been questionable, and it seems like a good part of that is Disney being more involved than they seemed to be in the past.

I've always saw "Please be excited"/"Please look forward to it" as more of a quirk than a problem. Sure, it's a meme, but it doesn't have the same sort of negative associations as their actual PR gaffes.

That recent interview was so bad, though, because it mirrored the Versus-era "Let's talk about working on the thing people saw years ago so we don't have to say anything new" strategy perfectly. And it's not like Nomura has no say in the questions he's asked; there's a story that Nomura once told a journalist that their "questions were rubbish and he wasn't going to answer them anymore."

Hey Everyone said:

I meant DRM, sorry. And if you know anything about big businesses, you'd know that they file a lot of patents they don't necessarily intend to use, because it allows them to limit what other companies can do without paying them. =P

Even with those changes, I would have practically no interest in taking part in that market. I buy games on console for a reason, and I suspect that a lot of other people do, too.

It's worth pointing out that movies have all of those advantages, and yet physical movie discs are still a thing that sells well enough to warrant a whole new format being created for 4k video. I'd never in a million years pay $20 for a digital copy of a movie, and I'd never in a million years pay $60 for a digital copy of a game. Reducing a work to a bunch of data reduces its value by 66-75% in my eyes, and I've never even participated in the used game market. =P

llazy77 · Feb 8, 2017

They shouldve announced KH3 at this years E3. Instead of building hype throughout years and then the game comes out and dosent meet expectations of all that hype. FF16 should be annouced the year its out like Fallout 4.

Hey Everyone · Feb 8, 2017

Ikkin said:

I think the reason for people buying physical for movies is simply because they can just rip the disk and have a digital copy for later it's actually pretty easy, and a lot of TVs, computers, phones these days take storage media with digitally formatted movies on them, sometimes they just bundle the two together(buy the physical copy then you get the digital one for free), games don't have this luxury which makes the decision for devise, also if consoles had the same freedom as PC, you wouldn't be paying 60 dollars on launch for a digital copy, there are people that buy games half the price day one, because the PC is a very open market. A lot of the time, the reason why physical sales still persist on consoles, is because they digital sale price is shit tier in comparison to just buying it on Amazon, or a used sale.

Storm · Feb 8, 2017

llazy77 said:

1 year wouldn't be enough to build hype imo, i like the expectation

2 years max.

Storm · Feb 8, 2017

http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/02...uture-dlc-first-look-character-creation-more/

now that's unnecessary but it could be a lot of fun anyway; the interview is quite interesting.

llazy77 · Feb 8, 2017

Storm said:

Interesting you can use it in single player, I wonder how the story will play out that way.

ChingleeTribal · Feb 8, 2017

Useless and unneeded feature for me personally. I don't want a multilayer component or an avatar creation system in my single player FF game.

They should stop wasting time on such things and pump resources and effort into improve the poor and scarce main story of the base game.

Tornak · Feb 8, 2017

That's... interesting, yeah. I'm very curious as to how they'll implement it. Not necessarily something I'm asking for, but I don't really care at this point (to me, XV is what it is, with its good and its bad parts. I'm not very excited right now about the DLCs, but I can't deny being curious).

SPOILERS FOR THE WHOLE GAME:

World of Ruin seems like, right? You and your crew (that might or might not be the Chocobros) are hunters and you play in some sort of MMORPG-like environment, with, I'm assuming, one or two hubs (Lestallum would be a good one).

In regards to the avatar's combat system, I'm assuming it's going to take a lot from these individual DLCs' battle systems, as we don't get Royal skills or arms.

Now, will we be able to control the Chocobros? Given that it's called (I think) Companions, we should, especially as it's a 4-players coop. I wonder if they'll try to fit it into the main game's narrative (I'm assuming they will, especially if they want to introduce the avatar in the main game).

llazy77 · Feb 8, 2017

Also other news from that article, they are working on a new FFXV project with Machine Zone, and Episode Prompto will be show at Pax East.

BladeRunner · Feb 8, 2017

Can we recreate Stella tho?

Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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