Motomu Toriyama Discussion and Rumor Thread

[Sora96]

People cosplay characters that were created many years ago all the time. People cosplay their favorite characters all the time.



There was a big sales drop from FFXIII to FFXIII-2 and from FFXIII-2 to LR:FFXIII in Japan...

Shows they're still popular. Just ask Square Portal, TGS was packed with them.

That has to be expected. I don't know of any direct sequel from Square Enix to ever sell more. Dirge of Cerberus was highly anticipated being a video game sequel to the highest selling FF of all time and on the best selling console of all time but only sold 1.something million. The After Years never sold great either. I don't think it cracked a million on any platform. Even the KH games have dropped off, not one has sold as much as KH1.

 

[Sora96]

One

of the worst games tend to be critically acclaimed. This was around the era of reviews being bought. And this is something that both Japanese and western players we're saying at the time. People display as Lightning even now in western conventions, and they still admit the faults to the character.

Still....I don't trust Motomu Toriyama for a flagship title anymore. I think he needs a spin off of his own.

All 3 were critically acclaimed in Japan. Same with X.

Well he's almost certain to be Event Director for FFVII Remake so have fun with that.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

Sora96, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link was critically acclaimed as well. People still have a fan base, still stronger than 13. Granted it's fanvase is older. Some people openly admit to enjoying horrible games.


For example: people have displayed year after year as Zelda and Link from Zelda:Wand of Gamelon and Link:Faces of Evil By far the worst Zelda games of all.


Keep in mind if people had the chance to re-review these games, they would at least lower down to two grades (at least). FF13 came in at a time when people didn't know what to expect out of HD video games. Heck, even Heavenly Sword was somewhat bare bones.

Here's another example completely unrelated to video games: a lot of animes that used advance CGI in the early 2000s we're highly praised for them. But animes do get re-reviewed and then they tend to lose it's touch.

Just because you want to say these games are critically acclaimed nd has fans doesn't mean that Se dropped the ball. FF13 was originally being made for PS2 and was advertised as such.

The fans know that game sucked. The reviewers know if given a chance to are review it, they won't be up to par with today's standards. Most launch titles we're given good reviews, most launch titles have been forgotten. Xiii stays relevant through sequels and mass promotion outside of ff13.

 

[coffee-san]

Shows they're still popular. Just ask Square Portal, TGS was packed with them.

Just to add... character popularity and video game quality are mutually exclusive lol.
FFXIII has a pretty all-star cast of characters imo, that doesn't take away from that mess of a narrative it has.

 

[Sora96]

Sora96, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link was critically acclaimed as well. People still have a fan base, still stronger than 13. Granted it's fanvase is older. Some people openly admit to enjoying horrible games.


For example: people have displayed year after year as Zelda and Link from Zelda:Wand of Gamelon and Link:Faces of Evil By far the worst Zelda games of all.


Keep in mind if people had the chance to re-review these games, they would at least lower down to two grades (at least). FF13 came in at a time when people didn't know what to expect out of HD video games. Heck, even Heavenly Sword was somewhat bare bones.

Here's another example completely unrelated to video games: a lot of animes that used advance CGI in the early 2000s we're highly praised for them. But animes do get re-reviewed and then they tend to lose it's touch.

Just because you want to say these games are critically acclaimed nd has fans doesn't mean that Se dropped the ball. FF13 was originally being made for PS2 and was advertised as such.

The fans know that game sucked. The reviewers know if given a chance to are review it, they won't be up to par with today's standards. Most launch titles we're given good reviews, most launch titles have been forgotten. Xiii stays relevant through sequels and mass promotion outside of ff13.

It all depends on the person. I know IGN's reviewers of the XIII series would still give it a good score.

This is all opinion-based. If you want to keep voicing your displeasure of a game that came out almost six years ago go ahead.

Square Enix views the XIII series as widely successful and so do I. And the games keep selling. XIII's the third highest selling FF title on Steam only slightly behind VIII with XIII-2 in 5th.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

It all depends on the person. I know IGN's reviewers of the XIII series would still give it a good score.

This is all opinion-based. If you want to keep voicing your displeasure of a game that came out almost six years ago go ahead.

Square Enix views the XIII series as widely successful and so do I. And the games keep selling. XIII's the third highest selling FF title on Steam only slightly behind VIII with XIII-2 in 5th.

Sales doesn't mean quality. By that logic, Sonic games are still high-quality games. I know IGN reviewers will not, they've subtly threw jabs at FF13 during their other reviews.

Still, opinion-base. Can someone objectively share any merits FF13 has?

Just to add... character popularity and video game quality are mutually exclusive lol.
FFXIII has a pretty all-star cast of characters imo, that doesn't take away from that mess of a narrative it has.

I honestly think that the mess of narrative could've been better if there was more room for more character growth and less stereotypes. The cast is sort of this happy-go-lucky, insert motivational speech whenever they have doubts. Its hard to appreciate characters when they are suppose to be taking the lead in the narrative, instead they are being controlled by the narrative to do the most idiotic things. And who's to say that its the narrative's fault, or the character's fault.

 

[coffee-san]

I honestly think that the mess of narrative could've been better if there was more room for more character growth and less stereotypes. The cast is sort of this happy-go-lucky, insert motivational speech whenever they have doubts. Its hard to appreciate characters when they are suppose to be taking the lead in the narrative, instead they are being controlled by the narrative to do the most idiotic things. And who's to say that its the narrative's fault, or the character's fault.

I mean, you kinda just answered your own question there. The narrative has to facilitate the character development. If the narrative doesn't do this, you end up with static characters. A lot of XIII's shortcomings revolved around the narrative to be honest, the characters are just a microcosm of it.

Even so, I did still enjoy FFXIII a lot, it's not god awful... and fun in its own right, but it could /definitely/ have been much better.

It all depends on the person. I know IGN's reviewers of the XIII series would still give it a good score.

This is all opinion-based. If you want to keep voicing your displeasure of a game that came out almost six years ago go ahead.

I think when you have to preface how a game would be received with "it depends on the person," I think that speaks volumes to that game's quality.... of course there's a dimension of subjectivity that goes into reviewing a game, but any reviewer that refuses to acknowledge a game's qualities from a vantage point of objectivity is dishonest.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

i think FF13 was just one big experiment. And as an experimental title, sure...i wouldn't have felt so hard on it. it could slowly be forgotten, or just not even be called Final Fantasy....but since it was, and especially a flagship one. I can't help but hate it twofolds more.

 

[Sora96]

i think FF13 was just one big experiment. And as an experimental title, sure...i wouldn't have felt so hard on it. it could slowly be forgotten, or just not even be called Final Fantasy....but since it was, and especially a flagship one. I can't help but hate it twofolds more.

Nope. It was a way to take Kitase & Takayoshi Nakazato's Interactive Movie design to the next level. Well you'll have to live with it. It's in every spin-off and the games keep getting re-released.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

Nope. It was a way to take Kitase & Takayoshi Nakazato's Interactive Movie design to the next level. Well you'll have to live with it. It's in every spin-off and the games keep getting re-released.

Their in every spin-off related to Dissidia-esque. So of course she's going to be in FF Explorers, World of FF, Dissidia, Theatrythm, All the Bravest, and Record Keeper. But when has she ever made a full-blown cameo like lets say "Cloud" such as Final Fantasy Tactics, or Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Sora96]

Their in every spin-off related to Dissidia-esque. So of course she's going to be in FF Explorers, World of FF, Dissidia, Theatrythm, All the Bravest, and Record Keeper. But when has she ever made a full-blown cameo like lets say "Cloud" such as Final Fantasy Tactics, or Kingdom Hearts?

She didn't 'just' appear in those spin-offs though. She's apart of the Explorers marketing and even WoFF while we have so little on it they've already confirmed her and called her legendary in the marketing. She's on the icon for Record Keeper. And she was the main character of 012.

When has there been a game like that since XIII? LOL. No Tactics games since unless you count Tactics S. Only one KH game, the 3DS game which was made to set up KH3. She'll be in KH3, that's pretty obvious. Nomura's still a very big fan of Lightning himself.

 

[yeah_93]

and called her legendary in the marketing.

Well, that's marketing for you.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

She didn't 'just' appear in those spin-offs though. She's apart of the Explorers marketing and even WoFF while we have so little on it they've already confirmed her and called her legendary in the marketing. She's on the icon for Record Keeper. And she was the main character of 012.

When has there been a game like that since XIII? LOL. No Tactics games since unless you count Tactics S. Only one KH game, the 3DS game which was made to set up KH3. She'll be in KH3, that's pretty obvious. Nomura's still a very big fan of Lightning himself.

You're missing the point, Lightning only appears in games designed to play tribute to the entire series, she has yet to appear in a game.

As for kh3, we'll have to wait and see. The series is already crowded with FF characters, and they had equal opportunity to use FF cast in KH3D, but instead opted out for TWEWY

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

Well, that's marketing for you.

Yep. Just doing their job.

 

[Sora96]

You're missing the point, Lightning only appears in games designed to play tribute to the entire series, she has yet to appear in a game.

As for kh3, we'll have to wait and see. The series is already crowded with FF characters, and they had equal opportunity to use FF cast in KH3D, but instead opted out for TWEWY

No, you're missing the point. There's only been one game like that since and that was released right when the trilogy was in progress.

 

[Nora_Nightingale]

No, you're missing the point. There's only been one game like that since and that was released right when the trilogy was in progress.

Ok, i'm going to show you.

Nope. It was a way to take Kitase & Takayoshi Nakazato's Interactive Movie design to the next level. Well you'll have to live with it. It's in every spin-off and the games keep getting re-released.

Here, you are stating that FF13 is in every spin-off. Every Spin-off? Really? Do we see her in the latest FF tactics game? No....she could, but hse isn't. She's only coming out in games where its designed for her to appear. Dissidia? Yeah...why wouldn't she come out in it? WoFF? Why wouldn't she come out in it? Theathrhythm? Why wouldn't she come out on that game either? All the Bravest? Record Keeper? Pictologica? ALl those games are designed to have every FF character in them from the past. Such as Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Warrior of Light.

It would be completely different if she came out on an actual spin-off not designed for her appearance the way Kingdom Hearts and Tactics:War of the Lions have done.

 

[Sora96]

Ok, i'm going to show you.

Here, you are stating that FF13 is in every spin-off. Every Spin-off? Really? Do we see her in the latest FF tactics game? No....she could, but hse isn't. She's only coming out in games where its designed for her to appear. Dissidia? Yeah...why wouldn't she come out in it? WoFF? Why wouldn't she come out in it? Theathrhythm? Why wouldn't she come out on that game either? All the Bravest? Record Keeper? Pictologica? ALl those games are designed to have every FF character in them from the past. Such as Cloud, Squall, Tidus, and Warrior of Light.

It would be completely different if she came out on an actual spin-off not designed for her appearance the way Kingdom Hearts and Tactics:War of the Lions have done.

You actually count Tactics S? It got terminated soon after release. Lol.

In case you hadn't noticed they've only confirmed like 3 characters in WoFF. Warrior of Light, Cloud & Lightning. Speaks volumes when they'd promote her over Cecil, Tera, Squall, Zidane, Yuna, Tidus, Vann list goes on.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

You actually count Tactics S? It got terminated soon after release. Lol.

Her point still stands.

In case you hadn't noticed they've only confirmed like 3 characters in WoFF. Warrior of Light, Cloud & Lightning. Speaks volumes when they'd promote her over Cecil, Tera, Squall, Zidane, Yuna, Tidus, Vann list goes on.

Maybe that’s because they don’t want to reveal everything in one blow and want to spread things out?

 

[Sora96]

Her point still stands.



Maybe that’s because they don’t want to reveal everything in one blow and want to spread things out?

Lol. I don't think any major FF characters was in Tactics S.

I'm not saying reveal everything. I'm saying they chose to promote her at a big event like TGS. E3 and TGS are probably the biggest events of the year for SE and they saved her for that and not anyone else.

Also I should add WoFF and Explorers are not Dissida-like games. Far from it. The Dissida-like games are produced by BD4 where WoFF and Explorers are BD3.

You can dislike her as much as you want. She's not going anywhere. Toriyama loves her, Kitase loves her (he even said his wife looks like her), Kamikokuryo loves her, Hamauzu loves her, Nomura named her one of his three favourite women in FF recently and Visual Works STILL has a massive poster of her in their studio.

 

[LeonBlade]

Maybe Lightning would have been a great character if they didn't give her personality to Fang instead and leave her as an empty husk of a character. Otherwise, she's just a pretty looking character that looks like a female version of Cloud. Aesthetically, I think Lightning is great, but otherwise no.

I agree with Nora here. It's funny, I saw a lot of people a while back complaining that Lightning was added in every game and I defended it by saying "she's in as many games as every other Final Fantasy character is, it's not like she's getting her own spin off games or anything" to defend SE's decisions on including her. This is the same argument pretty much that Nora is using to show why including her isn't necessarily an amazing thing. Not that it's bad, but that it's normal and to be expected.