Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII General Discussion and News Thread

[Fleur]

Chaos makes time moot. A timeless world infected with Chaos means there cannot be natural birth, death or aging for some reason. And now we see that rule also applies to monsters. Sure, makes sense, I guess.

But a finite number of monsters will probably grind my gears at some point. Especially if there is a certain type of monster I want to fight over and over again because it grants me certain advantages, etc. I'm casually slaughtering skeletons for let's assume, good Gil and then all of a sudden I get walloped by a pinky-purple Last One from nowhere. =(

 

[Storm2356]

Chaos makes time moot. A timeless world infected with Chaos means there cannot be natural birth, death or aging for some reason. And now we see that rule also applies to monsters. Sure, makes sense, I guess.

But a finite number of monsters will probably grind my gears at some point. Especially if there is a certain type of monster I want to fight over and over again because it grants me certain advantages, etc. I'm casually slaughtering skeletons for let's assume, good Gil and then all of a sudden I get walloped by a pinky-purple Last One from nowhere. =(

Hmm... They probably changed it, but they said once before that the Last One system would only be in Hard Mode.

 

[yeah_93]

It's been said that certain species can't go extinct. Wonder why, though...
EDIT: Well, besides plot reasons.

Because of gameplay reasons? It's dull to have an empty world.

 

[Fleur]

The Saviour is going to go around "liberating" people's souls and mass slaughtering wildlife to the point of, or total, extinction. Hide you spouses, hide your children, hide your families.

I for one, am rooting for the wildlife!

 

[Keriaku]

Because of gameplay reasons? It's dull to have an empty world.

I imagine that all the 'natural' type creatures can go extinct, but I imagine that there will be a variety of Void-spawn type creatures that are coming in with the Chaos, and are effectively gonna be infinite by comparison.

 

[Fleur]

Not a fan of any of them, to be honest, and that includes the final logo they've gone for.

I still don't know what the reasoning was for going with an incongruous, dramatically different logo for this game. Dirge and Crisis Core were also different yes, but they still weren't total departures, maintaining that classic font with the franchise name and the Roman numeral.

Come to think of it, I still don't know why it has to be called Lightning Returns, and not FFXIII-3, hence ruining someone's meticulously alphabetically-arranged game shelf. It's not like someone unfamiliar with the games is going to be anymore enticed by a game depicting a character they have never seen or played as "returning" as opposed to a number 3 stuck on the end of a Roman numeral.

 

[Storm2356]

No way. SE is teaming up with Pocky to promote LR. xD
Lightning-themed Pocky! Love that stuff.
http://www.finalfantasyunion.com/ne...oins-forces-with-pocky-maker-glico--2335.html

Where can I get it?! (Yes, I know we don't know yet.)

 

[Amicitia]

Screams Seymour to me.

Spoiler

Bet that soul in his hand is Serah's.

 

[Storm2356]

In my mind, I think I know how LR is going to end. And it hurts, but damnit I am READY for this.
LR_news on Twitter was asking about speculations, and almost anyone who replied said they thought Lightning would overcome Bhunivelze amd become the new Etro. ;_;
Oh, and Bhuni's render was revealed today. Most epic final boss battle in an FF game confirmed as far as I'm concerned. Good luck, Light. You're going to need it.

Pretty sure they said we'd get a happy ending, but I won't discount it. Pretty far fetched, IMHO, but still.

 

[Fleur]

Yup, looks like a Final Fantasy God creature all right.

Not that there was much mystery to begin with, but I think this scan pretty much solidifies the guy as the unambiguous main antagonist.

The Seymour-Sephiroth vibes for Bunnybells are fitting, given how all three of these villains have something to do with/or had something to do with, a mother figure as either part of their backstory, or part of the plot. In Bunnybell's case, if I recall correctly, he's

Spoiler

trying to kick down the door into the realm his banished mother ended up in, so he can I dunno, be immortal and take over everything and whatnot. In other words, he's having the biggest teenage tantrum ever.

For some reason, at first glance, I pictured that thing on his right hand being the eye of Sauron, but bent to his will.

 

[Ehren]

Yup, looks like a Final Fantasy God creature all right.

Not that there was much mystery to begin with, but I think this scan pretty much solidifies the guy as the unambiguous main antagonist.

The Seymour-Sephiroth vibes for Bunnybells are fitting, given how all three of these villains have something to do with/or had something to do with, a mother figure as either part of their backstory, or part of the plot. In Bunnybell's case, if I recall correctly, he's

Spoiler

trying to kick down the door into the realm his banished mother ended up in, so he can I dunno, be immortal and take over everything and whatnot. In other words, he's having the biggest teenage tantrum ever.

For some reason, at first glance, I pictured that thing on his right hand being the eye of Sauron, but bent to his will.

Bhunivelze's motivations, specifically, are...

Spoiler

It is completely unknown how, but Bhunivelze realized the world would be destroyed someday no matter what anyone did... and he along with it. Assuming this to be a retaliation curse from the other side by Mwynn, he began to obsessively try to find a way to enter the Unseen Realm and destroy her. He couldn't simply enter the Unseen Realm- Apparently, he had the power to do so but would be trading his physical form and thus lose control of the mortal world. He created his children to find a door through which he could safely make passage to the Unseen Realm and then return after getting rid of Mwynn once and for all. He believed this would mean the world would never die, and he would never be destroyed. As far as is known, though, Bhunivelze wouldn't have died of old age or anything.

In Lightning Returns, Valhalla and Gran Pulse are already merged and the world is ending. Bhunivelze seems to have realized that there is no saving this world, and is looking to create a new one. Call me paranoid, but somehow I feel like it's a little fishy that he'd just be able to pop a new world into existence or that he'd even care about bringing humanity with him. It's true that Bhunivelze is seemingly unable to create humans, but there's really no point to them in a world he wants to control by himself. I personally believe the overriding theme for this game will be the spark of Chaos contained within every human soul that allows them to achieve the impossible, against all odds. I believe Bhunivelze may need Lightning to gather souls because without the power of humanity backing him, Bhunivelze would be unable to create his new world and survive the raging maelstrom of Chaos. I would assume his plan involves using humanity to create a new world, and then destroying the Savior so she cannot follow him to the safe haven. Humanity's collective souls would thus be abandoned and consumed by Chaos, and Bhunivelze would have an empty world with which to start from scratch.

 

[Storm2356]

Bhunivelze's motivations, specifically, are...

Spoiler

It is completely unknown how, but Bhunivelze realized the world would be destroyed someday no matter what anyone did... and he along with it. Assuming this to be a retaliation curse from the other side by Mwynn, he began to obsessively try to find a way to enter the Unseen Realm and destroy her. He couldn't simply enter the Unseen Realm- Apparently, he had the power to do so but would be trading his physical form and thus lose control of the mortal world. He created his children to find a door through which he could safely make passage to the Unseen Realm and then return after getting rid of Mwynn once and for all. He believed this would mean the world would never die, and he would never be destroyed. As far as is known, though, Bhunivelze wouldn't have died of old age or anything.

In Lightning Returns, Valhalla and Gran Pulse are already merged and the world is ending. Bhunivelze seems to have realized that there is no saving this world, and is looking to create a new one. Call me paranoid, but somehow I feel like it's a little fishy that he'd just be able to pop a new world into existence or that he'd even care about bringing humanity with him. It's true that Bhunivelze is seemingly unable to create humans, but there's really no point to them in a world he wants to control by himself. I personally believe the overriding theme for this game will be the spark of Chaos contained within every human soul that allows them to achieve the impossible, against all odds. I believe Bhunivelze may need Lightning to gather souls because without the power of humanity backing him, Bhunivelze would be unable to create his new world and survive the raging maelstrom of Chaos. I would assume his plan involves using humanity to create a new world, and then destroying the Savior so she cannot follow him to the safe haven. Humanity's collective souls would thus be abandoned and consumed by Chaos, and Bhunivelze would have an empty world with which to start from scratch.

And the stuff in the spoiler tag just seems so right that it feels like you just spoiled the entire plot. Then again, if it's that obvious to you, I doubt you're wrong.

 

[Storm2356]

Spoiler

Lightning becoming some sort of deity or watcher-of-the-new-world doesn't necessarily have to be bad.
Lightning's ultimate goal is to save Serah, right? Be with her is probably high on her priority list, too. I'm just guessing that Lightning will take down Bhunivelze and become this new type of goddess who watches over the new world.

Who knows, but this game is going to screw with my head, I know it.

Alright, I get you now.

Spoiler

I thought you meant just like Etro, stuck in the Unseen Realm or something. You're right, that wouldn't be that bad.

 

[Amicitia]

Spoiler

Lightning becoming some sort of deity or watcher-of-the-new-world doesn't necessarily have to be bad.
Lightning's ultimate goal is to save Serah, right? Be with her is probably high on her priority list, too. I'm just guessing that Lightning will take down Bhunivelze and become this new type of goddess who watches over the new world.

Who knows, but this game is going to screw with my head, I know it.

Well

Spoiler

It could be bad in a sense as regards to the message it would convey, I think. It's obvious enough that one of the biggest themes of the XIII series is humanism, and Lightning ascending as a divine being and not preserving her humanity wouldn't exactly be a happy ending for her.

Some thoughts for Bhunivelze:

Spoiler

Naturally, Ehren nailed it. But I think the fact that it's quite obvious of how fishy his intentions are makes me believe that he won't be the main main antagonist. It also got me thinking of this new world he's creating. I don't think it's even habitable for humans if he doesn't want death to exist in it.

Speaking of, I'd take this chance while I'm here to share some theories I talked about in another site. It would be interesting to hear what you guys think of it.

It'd be easier to copy-paste stuff so I'll do exactly that:

I encountered a really good discussion in a forum a few weeks ago on how the FNC mythos, at least the way XIII’s universe depicted it, is strikingly similar with FFIII’s. Mind you I never finished III, but I was able to grasp and recognize the concept both universes share. I give most of the credit to this post for the wonderful ideas, and though there may be inaccuracies in some of the facts the main idea is the most important to me, which I’m about to explain.

Simply put, as inspired by the III’s mythos, we can look at XIII’s situation as the struggle of balance between “light” (Life and Memories) and “darkness” (Time, Death, Destruction). FFIII’s Cloud of Darkness, misleading her name may be, was a being born to ensure the balance between light and darkness, even if it means it has to return the world into nothingness. Who was first born into the world when “light” and “dark” was balanced in XIII’s universe? Mwynn. It was her job to ensure that as well. Then she gave birth to a God.

Bhunivelze is ultimately the God of Light. He loves “light” and loathes anything that would remind him of “darkness”. Which is primarily the reason why he did the things he did, etc., we all know what they are. This is also the reason why he can’t control Chaos. Because of his desire for the eternity of life, the amount of Chaos increased in the Invisible World as he created fal’Cie Gods and they then continued to create fal’Cie. Off course the balance was then disrupted but was restored when Etro placed pieces of Chaos in humans as their “spirits”/”hearts”.

What is Chaos? Chaos is a complex concept. It’s depicted as something that results to destruction, something that is a source of power, but it’s also said to be the human “spirit”. It could possibly embody the complexity of humanity as well, as it is impossible to simply classify humans as either literally entirely good or evil. It’s the strength and the will of Man. It’s a natural occurrence. Perfect and uncontrolled Chaos, however, is pure nothingness and darkness. You could also say that Chaos is limitless, as nothingness could also mean eternity.

It is quite confusing, really. They say perfect Chaos means no concept of time, space, or form. But as was proven, Chaos could be broken down as well. It can be quantitated, as its elements could be used in different ways. More importantly, it can be compressed/frozen. As crystals. Time and memory, frozen in crystal. It could be also said that Chaos is the origin of everything.

This theory explains a lot of things, like how Serah could control the Chaos in monsters and turn them to crystals which she can use in battles. Crystals are basically limited in a sense. This explains the limited or restricted nature of the fal’Cie and their fal’Cie Gods, as they have crystals as their core. Bhunivelze is the purest and brightest crystal, so he was able to create the fal’Cie Gods and kill his mother. Again, his power is limited as he can’t control Chaos and he needs tools to be able to do stuff. This could also be related to how the l’Cie branding works, but that’s another topic (which if I find the time will explain in another post).

[here comes the post I've written later]

L’Cie are made out of humans by the fal’Cie. The natures of Lindzei and Pulse’ branding are different, but the base idea is basically the same: Once humans are branded they are given a Focus with a time limit. As l’Cie they can cast magic and summon things. If they succeed, they turn to crystal. If they fail, they turn to Cie’th, then they turn to Cie’th stones in time.

So what does the branding actually do? I’ve been thinking of the process, based from the theory I stated in the quote. Humans contain Chaos but they can’t initially control it, perhaps it’s a restriction done by the human form.

In the time of ‘FFXIII’ only l’Cie were able to perform magic, but after the Castastrophy as a result of chaos flowing out of distortions in time-space and cracks forming in the borderline between the physical and the spiritual, many people gained the ability to use magic.

I think what the brand does is create a connection to the Invisible World as the source of Chaos. So unlike in XIII-2 where there is no established connection and the Chaos randomly flows through the few cracks, l’Cie gain full access, which is why its flow is uncontrollable and the Chaos can consume the person over time. Once it happens, voila, it’s cie’th time. Notice the appearances of cie’th, they’re chaotic shit.

How about crystallization? Think about what a Focus is. A Focus is like the task or destiny you have to fulfill. Once the Focus is achieved, the time and memory within the Chaos is frozen as crystal. Since levels of Chaos within a l’Cie is high, the whole person crystallizes.

[shadowmeowth's response]

Your theory of the l’Cie brand being a link between the branded one and the Unseen Realm is quite interesting, it’d mean it’s the Chaos what makes l’Cie turn into Cie’th; that is, as Fang comments, a powerful emotional shock can accelerate the process, and Chaos seems to be that power that even gods cannot grasp, the emotions that humans can feel. Also, do you remember Snow’s battle in LR: FFXIII? When he transforms into a half-Cie’th? Hope comments about the possibility of Snow using the power of Chaos to himself, so, if he uses it to become a half-Cie’th, then…

There’s something that bugs me. The former l’Cie from XIII, that is, Lightning, Snow, Sazh, Serah and Dajh, they all can use in one way or another the time gates, which are said, only people with enough Chaos inside them can use. Only Hope can’t enter the Historia Crux. Why him, who was the most powerful mage among the l’Cie and magic is a sign of Chaos? I wonder, if Hope learning to control the darkest Chaos inside him -his bloodthirsty desire of revenge against Snow- has to do with this. Or it was just the excuseSquenix used to make him an adult in XIII-2, but I don’t really think so. I think there’s something beyond him.

Changing topics, what you said about Chaos being “time and memory, frozen in crystal”, that’s really enlightening. Once again, I’m getting FFIX vibes from here. Remember the Crystal World, the manifestation of all the memories that form the universe? Could Chaos be something like that? Anyway, if Bhunivelze is the purest crystal, and crystal is frozen Chaos, then Bhuni is made from Chaos as well. God of Light he may be, but in the end, he’s the same as Mwynn and all other living beings in the universe: they’re alive because of the power of Chaos. But, intriguingly, gods can’t feel anything. Perhaps it’s because they’re made of Chaos, while humans have a spirit made of Chaos… Hmm, it’s hard to explain, but I hope you get what I’m trying to say.

[me again]
It’s great that you brought up the thing about emotions because that might be connected as to why fal’Cie and the Gods couldn’t understand their own emotions well with them having different cores than humans. I forgot to mention another thing that the theory can support as well: the Eidolons. How could Etro send the Eidolons to the l’Cie when the Door of Souls was closed? She was sending them through the brand. When they’re about to be summoned, they manifest as crystals, the eidoliths.

Not sure about Hope tbh. Perhaps he has something more to him, as you imply.

And definitely, yeah, you can make that reference. Chaos, as I said in the original post, could be described as the origin of everything. It’s very complex, but if you think about how in the real world everything was born in the abyss (darkness)… yeah. Life began from Chaos; everything did.

I do get what you’re trying to say. Again, it may have to do with their cores being frozen Chaos, crystals, unlike the piece of pure Chaos within humans. I think there’s something missing though which is making it hard for us to grasp the idea entirely, and it’s about the Eradia. We still don’t know what it is.

Now where was I going with this? When Mwynn gave birth to the brightest crystal and God of Light in the Visible World where life exists, she was killed and swallowed into the Invisible World. She was consumed by Chaos, possibly corrupted by it.

If Bhunivelze yearns Eternal Light and Mwynn yearned Balance, who would yearn Eternal Darkness?

That’s the part many of us theorizes about, usually involving Caius, Chaos Yeul, and the Invisible Chaos trapped under Etro’s throne.

Lightning perfectly describes this whole theory. The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.

I think that's about the whole discussion. I might as well add though since it just came to me now, yearning Balance would be the same as yearning Eternal Nothingness/Darkness as well.

 

[hui43210]

Spoiler

That looks like an FF final boss if I've ever seen one, probably only the first form as well

 

[UNKLE]

Spoiler

That looks like an FF final boss if I've ever seen one, probably only the first form as well

Agreed,
The only thing i hate in some japanese RPG is too easy predicted.

 

[UNKLE]

If anyone noticed In ff13 you created a new world in FFXIII-2 a new world created, well in LR again a whole new world created

Spoiler

and again in the ending. Without any gods and only human left without any magic, i predict this. Bunivelz will be the final boss

And if this is true then i never get this game i watch in youtube maybe.

 

[hui43210]

Spoiler

Agreed,
The only thing i hate in some japanese RPG is too easy predicted.

Well, lets hope FFXV tries some new ideas in this regard.:cookie:

 

[Shin Kazama]

GameStop trailer for the two samurai pre-order outfits shows some new footage:
http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/110481

I'm kinda hi digging the samurai one but nothing ifs better than the Cloud Strife uniform imo.

 

[dmysta3000]

New vids showing off the costumes