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Honestly, I have been worried about the game for over a year since it was first announced that so many changes had been made. But honestly, even if Kingsglaive is a bit of a mess, it might be that Final Fantasy XV could be able to better explore these characters and such. Even Luna, who I just made a new thread about my dislike of her personality and character arc in Kingsglaive could be a far better character in the game.
You're not the only ones.
But, there's legit hope here. I still don't have a problem with the individual points in the plot, it was just incredibly poorly presented as a movie. Speaking to some other people who follow this stuff more closely, Ravus' motivations make sense. They just did a terrible, terrible job setting them up.
(Spoilers, but this is all in the publicly released 12 minute video)
From Abs:
I get Ravus' motivation, somewhat.
It was Regis who brought Niflheim to his doorstep. Regis was the only one powerful enough to help and he could have absolutely destroyed Glauca back then. He runs away to save his own son. Regis then proceeded to hide behind his wall for 12 years. Sure, Niflheim did it, but in his mind it wouldn't have happened at all, ONLY for Regis.
12 years under captivity and he's been brainwashed and twisted. He HATES Regis above all others.
I can't help but feel that if the Lucii accepted him - he'd have turned on Niflheim, too. He's clearly selfish and power hungry.
This is actually plausible and makes a little sense, they just did an absolutely terrible job conveying that in the movie. A movie that, IMO, had the pacing of a graphic novel made out of cutscenes.
So, there's at least some way to believe it might just be a Kingsglaive problem. And I still like everything else so far. But, I totally agree that it's enough to give pause and be prepared for some story issues.
But, there's legit hope here. I still don't have a problem with the individual points in the plot, it was just incredibly poorly presented as a movie. Speaking to some other people who follow this stuff more closely, Ravus' motivations make sense. They just did a terrible, terrible job setting them up.
(Spoilers, but this is all in the publicly released 12 minute video)
From Abs:
I get Ravus' motivation, somewhat.
It was Regis who brought Niflheim to his doorstep. Regis was the only one powerful enough to help and he could have absolutely destroyed Glauca back then. He runs away to save his own son. Regis then proceeded to hide behind his wall for 12 years. Sure, Niflheim did it, but in his mind it wouldn't have happened at all, ONLY for Regis.
12 years under captivity and he's been brainwashed and twisted. He HATES Regis above all others.
I can't help but feel that if the Lucii accepted him - he'd have turned on Niflheim, too. He's clearly selfish and power hungry.
This is actually plausible and makes a little sense, they just did an absolutely terrible job conveying that in the movie. A movie that, IMO, had the pacing of a graphic novel made out of cutscenes.
So, there's at least some way to believe it might just be a Kingsglaive problem. And I still like everything else so far. But, I totally agree that it's enough to give pause and be prepared for some story issues.
I know that it might seen worrisome but I question, has there ever been a flawless narrative?
Never.
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LeonBlade and Nova
Tabata was still heavily involved and the movie was meant to tie in directly with the story of FFXV.
And no one is asking for a flawless narrative. But there is a difference between a movie where you can ignore the flaws and go along with the ride and a movie that makes you bang your head against the wall and develop hatred for a character who is supposedly one of the heroes of the movies, even if she's mostly useless through out it.
And from what I've seen, Kingsglaive is very polarizing. I know that it made me dislike and even hate Luna, and I know several aren't happy with Ravus' role and motivations. At the same time, I wouldn't call Kingsglaive a bad movie. Nyx and Regis are great in it, helped by Paul and Bean's performances, but I wouldn't call it a great movie either. It's serviceable, I think.
I think that's a good reason to be worried about the story of the game, though.
And no one is asking for a flawless narrative. But there is a difference between a movie where you can ignore the flaws and go along with the ride and a movie that makes you bang your head against the wall and develop hatred for a character who is supposedly one of the heroes of the movies, even if she's mostly useless through out it.
And from what I've seen, Kingsglaive is very polarizing. I know that it made me dislike and even hate Luna, and I know several aren't happy with Ravus' role and motivations. At the same time, I wouldn't call Kingsglaive a bad movie. Nyx and Regis are great in it, helped by Paul and Bean's performances, but I wouldn't call it a great movie either. It's serviceable, I think.
I think that's a good reason to be worried about the story of the game, though.
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they only have 15 minutes, vote for the type of content you want to see at pax:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJvoJYBh7Ah/
if by magic they mean ring magic i'm totally in, but no way to know. :/
skill tree is winning so far.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJvoJYBh7Ah/
if by magic they mean ring magic i'm totally in, but no way to know. :/
skill tree is winning so far.
And by Tabata's own admission, Kingsglaive had a huge effect on many of the elements of the game (like the change in design for Regis) and Tabata himself doesn't particularly have a good track record with female characters. Look at how he and the writers behind The 3rd Birthday portrayed Aya Brea.
And even now, Tabata's strengths and weaknesses as a story teller are on display even in Kingsglaive, where most of the issues can mostly be attributed to Nozue. So, it's a good cause for alarm.
And even now, Tabata's strengths and weaknesses as a story teller are on display even in Kingsglaive, where most of the issues can mostly be attributed to Nozue. So, it's a good cause for alarm.
You can be skeptical about XV all you want, but don't try to make it seem like it would have been better if they hadn't changed things. Reality is, you don't have a concrete idea about what stayed and what was removed from Versus. What we got in all the 8 years of the project being under Nomura was 4-5 trailers with so many vague things and concepts that we filled and connected the dots with our own expectations and imaginations of how things would end up being. There was no concrete story back in Versus either, Nomura changed his vision several times, one of them the whole meeting with Stella and Noctis. Back in 2008, Noctis and Stella didn't have prior knowledge of each other, but in 2013 they were apparently childhood friends. The original concept might have been 100 times worse that what we got in Kingsglaive but no one knows for sure. Also, we've seen Luna in game in recent footage and she definitely doesn't seem like she is weak, heck, even in the movie she wasn't "weak willed" as you would describe her. What baffles me is, Stella is supposedly strong because she summoned her weapon against Noctis for a second but it can't be applied to Luna whom we've seen her against Leviathan? This Stella vs Luna is so dumb because the only reason people prefer Stella is because she is a fragment of Nomura's vision -_-
I am just honestly sick of people giving Nomura all the benefit of the doubt in the world despite what he is doing with FFVIIR while ripping Tabata to shreds over changes that were bound to happen in game development. Let him release his game and judge it for its own merits instead of making snap judgements about it just because you prefer Nomura.
I am just honestly sick of people giving Nomura all the benefit of the doubt in the world despite what he is doing with FFVIIR while ripping Tabata to shreds over changes that were bound to happen in game development. Let him release his game and judge it for its own merits instead of making snap judgements about it just because you prefer Nomura.
What we have seen of the FFXV so far has convinced me that Tabata is doing pretty good job as the director of the game. The story is a mystery still but I can't judge it before I have played the game, but the gameplay looks fun at least.
If we are comparing Tabata and Nomura as directors, I would say I might prefer Tabata to be honest. As much as I like, for example, Kingdom Hearts, I don't think the direction of those games is really that remarkable. In my opinion the directing in FFXV seem much more better... But yeah, that's just my opinion and that said I don't think Type-0 was that great game though even though it was directed by Tabata so I'm not giving him a chance just because what I have seen from him in the past.
If we are comparing Tabata and Nomura as directors, I would say I might prefer Tabata to be honest. As much as I like, for example, Kingdom Hearts, I don't think the direction of those games is really that remarkable. In my opinion the directing in FFXV seem much more better... But yeah, that's just my opinion and that said I don't think Type-0 was that great game though even though it was directed by Tabata so I'm not giving him a chance just because what I have seen from him in the past.
Okay, first off, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Second, as I said in my criticism of her, Luna has to stand as her own character. And she doesn't. I thought she was a terrible character and weak despite the dialogue claiming otherwise. It has nothing to do with Stella being able to summon a weapon that makes Luna weak, even as she fights against a Leviathan. It doesn't help that, according to the movie, Luna has no magical powers, has no fighting ability and no other way to defend herself. She has to rely on Nyx and others to help her out.
Whereas Stella was described and shown, to have powers similar to Noctis and that she was perfectly capable of defending herself and was one of the acting antagonists. But that's the only comparison I'll draw with Luna and Stella because Luna should stand on her own. And on her own, she is a weak, useless character who almost certainly caused every single issue in the move and game and even her captivity in Nilfheim is her own fault for letting go of Regis at the beginning, even though there's no indication that he couldn't have protected her against the Nilfheim soldiers or that they'd want her alive. After all, one of the robot soldiers tried to kill her brother. And her attempts to help Regis in the movie don't help, because she's shown to be suicidally overconfident in her non abilities to help. If it weren't for others helping her, she'd be dead ten times over.
But let me ask you, who are you to tell people off for mentioning they wanted to see what Nomura had to offer for a game that frequently got delayed beyond his control and then taken from him and given to someone who before than had only ever done handheld games? But like Luna, Tabata has to stand on his own merits and so far, from a story perspective, he is not impressing me. His gameplay is great, his characters from what we've seen are lacking. Type-0 showed these strengths and weaknesses too. The gameplay was good, the characters were meh at best and the story a confusing mess. Tabata is a great gameplay director, but both Type-0 and The 3rd Birthday have shown that he is also a weak storyteller.
I think that you missed the point of both what I said and others have said. And despite my criticism, I am still giving the game a chance. So don't give me that high and might crap about how I'm not giving Tabata a chance.
Whereas Stella was described and shown, to have powers similar to Noctis and that she was perfectly capable of defending herself and was one of the acting antagonists. But that's the only comparison I'll draw with Luna and Stella because Luna should stand on her own. And on her own, she is a weak, useless character who almost certainly caused every single issue in the move and game and even her captivity in Nilfheim is her own fault for letting go of Regis at the beginning, even though there's no indication that he couldn't have protected her against the Nilfheim soldiers or that they'd want her alive. After all, one of the robot soldiers tried to kill her brother. And her attempts to help Regis in the movie don't help, because she's shown to be suicidally overconfident in her non abilities to help. If it weren't for others helping her, she'd be dead ten times over.
But let me ask you, who are you to tell people off for mentioning they wanted to see what Nomura had to offer for a game that frequently got delayed beyond his control and then taken from him and given to someone who before than had only ever done handheld games? But like Luna, Tabata has to stand on his own merits and so far, from a story perspective, he is not impressing me. His gameplay is great, his characters from what we've seen are lacking. Type-0 showed these strengths and weaknesses too. The gameplay was good, the characters were meh at best and the story a confusing mess. Tabata is a great gameplay director, but both Type-0 and The 3rd Birthday have shown that he is also a weak storyteller.
I think that you missed the point of both what I said and others have said. And despite my criticism, I am still giving the game a chance. So don't give me that high and might crap about how I'm not giving Tabata a chance.
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Likes:
BladeRunner
Same, Nomura excels at coming up with ideas and then convoluting the shit out of them. FFXV is at least clear and transparent, I'd take that over 1 trailer per 4 years and not knowing exactly what we're getting.
You're writing off the dialog because it doesn't mesh well with your pre-determined opinion of Luna, how to you expect people to accept your argument if you won't take her own dialog into account? It's fine, you don't have to like Luna but don't go telling me her dialog that shows her to be a strong willed character isn't relevant because why exactly? Honestly, you say that this isn't about Stella but this is clearly the case just like you said you weren't making snap judgments in your previous post but you were
Sure you can accept that 1 second Stella scene as her being strong without knowing anything about her character or how she was going to be handled, but you can't accept a scene where Luna was standing against Leviathan? I am not gonna spoil but maybe you should watch the recent footage before making claims like that because honestly you don't seem impartial at all. As I said, you don't have to like her but don't write off things just because they don't fit with your opinion.
I trust Tabata and I liked what he did with Crisis Core, so I am optimistic in his ability to deliver something just as powerful. Nomura however, as much as I like KH, is not the best storyteller in the world and I am legit worried about FFVIIR.
Telling people off? This is a forum, people discuss things and that's what I was thinking. Are you seriously going to make this a personal thing because I don't believe in Nomura's vision as much as you do? If so I'll just avoid talking to you in the future.
You're writing off the dialog because it doesn't mesh well with your pre-determined opinion of Luna, how to you expect people to accept your argument if you won't take her own dialog into account? It's fine, you don't have to like Luna but don't go telling me her dialog that shows her to be a strong willed character isn't relevant because why exactly? Honestly, you say that this isn't about Stella but this is clearly the case just like you said you weren't making snap judgments in your previous post but you were
Sure you can accept that 1 second Stella scene as her being strong without knowing anything about her character or how she was going to be handled, but you can't accept a scene where Luna was standing against Leviathan? I am not gonna spoil but maybe you should watch the recent footage before making claims like that because honestly you don't seem impartial at all. As I said, you don't have to like her but don't write off things just because they don't fit with your opinion.
I trust Tabata and I liked what he did with Crisis Core, so I am optimistic in his ability to deliver something just as powerful. Nomura however, as much as I like KH, is not the best storyteller in the world and I am legit worried about FFVIIR.
Telling people off? This is a forum, people discuss things and that's what I was thinking. Are you seriously going to make this a personal thing because I don't believe in Nomura's vision as much as you do? If so I'll just avoid talking to you in the future.
Likes:
LeonBlade and Nova