Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

[DrBretto]

If you can't see it I don't know how to help you, man. This reeks of discarding reason to see what you want to see. A different time of day would not and should not rid Cor's face nearly entirely of shadow or make his jacket look so comparatively smooth and lacking in features. They've scaled back several visual elements and it's not like the poster is the only person to have noticed and verified. Nearly every shot from the new footage looks in some way lacking when compared with Duscae or Uncovered and it's not all because of "time of day". I'm not of the opinion that this scaling back is a big deal with so much time left to tighten and performance being a primary concern, but it's definitely there.

I am not in need of help. I didn't say I can't see a difference. I said there's nothing necessarily different but the lighting. The lighting is clearly different. The angle is also different. Ever make muscles I'm a mirror? Ever notice how much of an effect the lighting is? Light coming in from above and I look like Lou Ferigno. Light comes in from the side and I look like some fat mobster named Lou.

I'm saying you can't definitely conclude a downgrade there. There doesn't appear to be any difference in the textures the only thing you can tell for sure is that the lighting is different. Just like all the other comparison pictures floating around with half the people shouting downgrade and the other half shouting upgrade, when the only conclusive difference is the angle of the lighting.

 

[yeah_93]

IMO, if you can't tell if it's the time of day or a downgrade, then it's not really worth complaining about. Second one looks better to me, BTW. So, now we can't tell if it's an upgrade, a downgrade or time of day.

I don't know, but it seems to me that the first one has much better lighting.

 

[LeonBlade]

Uncovered

Last video

downgraded or different time of day? can't tell... I think it's a mix of both.

First one is better, but first one is also PC, it's also taken with direct light on Cor. Not a fair comparison.

I find that the Leviathan one is a good comparison because the newer one is better despite the Uncovered version being PC build.

 

[Death Penalty]

I am not in need of help. I didn't say I can't see a difference. I said there's nothing necessarily different but the lighting. The lighting is clearly different. The angle is also different. Ever make muscles I'm a mirror? Ever notice how much of an effect the lighting is? Light coming in from above and I look like Lou Ferigno. Light comes in from the side and I look like some fat mobster named Lou.

I'm saying you can't definitely conclude a downgrade there. There doesn't appear to be any difference in the textures the only thing you can tell for sure is that the lighting is different. Just like all the other comparison pictures floating around with half the people shouting downgrade and the other half shouting upgrade, when the only conclusive difference is the angle of the lighting.

I don't see anyone shouting upgrade, and you can definitely conclude a downgrade here. People who have played the game are pretty clear as well, including our own APZoneRunner who states the game looks worse than Duscae (though better than Platinum Demo!). I'm sorry that you can't see it, the textures are even very clearly different on Cor's shoulders and around and on his buttons. The lighting should also be comparable considering they're in a mostly lightless tomb with elements of natural light flowing in from limited windows. I don't know how you can be blind to this downgrade or otherwise deny it, but it's a troubling development when I come here for thought-provoking discussion. You don't seem to be able to take the bad with the good.

First one is better, but first one is also PC, it's also taken with direct light on Cor. Not a fair comparison.

I find that the Leviathan one is a good comparison because the newer one is better despite the Uncovered version being PC build.

Now see, this actually prompts discussion and seems very reasonable.

 

[Nova]

Maybe the Cor pic is from the master version demo build while the Luna pic leans closer to the current build?

 

[Storm]

no downgrade here apparently; this is weird.

 

[DrBretto]

I don't see anyone shouting upgrade, and you can definitely conclude a downgrade here. People who have played the game are pretty clear as well, including our own APZoneRunner who states the game looks worse than Duscae (though better than Platinum Demo!).

We're not comparing anything to duscae. We're comparing the uncovered trailer to the latest footage. And again, I am not having trouble seeing anything. You cannot conclude anything from those pictures. And that is the point here. "I'm sorry you don't see it" but, you're making a strawman argument here.

Now, you're going to make me work to demonstrate it, and you were snarky to boot, so you'll have to understand if this comes off a little bit snippy. For starters, you can cut the bullshit about accusing me of seeing what I want to see. I would be the first one in line to tell someone that downgrades happen and it's not a big deal.

Take these pics for example :


Older (e3)

Most recent

Take a look at the background. Obvious downgrade, right? Or is it just the shadows? Is this evidence of a downgrade?

Spoiler

It's not. I actually lied. The first screenshot is the newer footage from gamescom and the second picture is from e3. The one with the better angle on the shadows is the one that looks better

First one is better, but first one is also PC, it's also taken with direct light on Cor. Not a fair comparison.

I find that the Leviathan one is a good comparison because the newer one is better despite the Uncovered version being PC build.

Im pretty sure that the uncovered trailer is pure PS4 footage, or at least PS4 devkit. You are right, however, in that the direct lighting makes it impossible to judge.

Death Penalty, if you havent seen people also calling the new footage an upgrade, then "I don't know what to tell ya". In particular, the leviathan comparisons where:

I'd say this: (VA trailer)

Looks better than:

And many other agree, despite the big twist, in that it appears that although Leviathan is clearer in the newer pic, and there's a little more detail in the background, it looks to me like it could be evidence of downgraded lighting effects. It could also be time of day.

Now, this is very very important to understand before you reply to me:

I am NOT arguing that one build is necessarily better than the other. I am NOT arguing that they have done no downgrades. I am arguing that it's completely inconclusive and it's leading a lot if otherwise intelligent people to making definitive statements that contradict each other.

I am not threatened by graphical downgrades. For one, I was already positive there would have to be some. I have a decent pc, and I have a ps4. I know what they're capable of. I am also getting a Neo, so none of it will even end up applying to me in the end. I am, however, sick of people on the internet spitting on my ass and telling me it's raining.

 

[angreis]

I honestly hope the Neo is able to reproduce the same quality graphical FINAL FANTASY trailer XV Walkthrough October 2014

for me the only downgrade that there was this video forward, the graphical quality was superb.

 

[Nova]

Got a question, where there any impressions from the gamescom build whether or not if there were any side quests with potentially meaningful content?

 

[DrBretto]

Got a question, where there any impressions from the gamescom build whether or not if there were any side quests with potentially meaningful content?

Im pretty sure you saw most of what they've seen so far. Looked like standard FFXII meets FFXIV affair. Hopefully without so many fetch quests like FFXIV is notorious for. At least the beginning looks a lot better than the fetch fest in the beginning of XII.

But, that doesn't mean there won't be any, just no one's played enough to know yet. Everything had been chapters 1 through 3 and on some kind of time limit. I figure by the same point in FFXII, for example, you'd just be finishing up your first trip to Bhujerba. I don't think you'd even see a side quest yet.

 

[ChingleeTribal]

I'm personally fine with the downgrade. The game looks good enough. Nothing spectacular but serviceable. It's gonna be the art style and level design that really shine.

 

[Death Penalty]

First one is better, but first one is also PC, it's also taken with direct light on Cor. Not a fair comparison.

I find that the Leviathan one is a good comparison because the newer one is better despite the Uncovered version being PC build.

We're not comparing anything to duscae. We're comparing the uncovered trailer to the latest footage. And again, I am not having trouble seeing anything. You cannot conclude anything from those pictures. And that is the point here. "I'm sorry you don't see it" but, you're making a strawman argument here.

Now, you're going to make me work to demonstrate it, and you were snarky to boot, so you'll have to understand if this comes off a little bit snippy. For starters, you can cut the bullshit about accusing me of seeing what I want to see. I would be the first one in line to tell someone that downgrades happen and it's not a big deal.

Take these pics for example :


Older (e3)

Most recent

Take a look at the background. Obvious downgrade, right? Or is it just the shadows? Is this evidence of a downgrade?

Spoiler

It's not. I actually lied. The first screenshot is the newer footage from gamescom and the second picture is from e3. The one with the better angle on the shadows is the one that looks better

Im pretty sure that the uncovered trailer is pure PS4 footage, or at least PS4 devkit. You are right, however, in that the direct lighting makes it impossible to judge.

Death Penalty, if you havent seen people also calling the new footage an upgrade, then "I don't know what to tell ya". In particular, the leviathan comparisons where:

I'd say this: (VA trailer)

Looks better than:

And many other agree, despite the big twist, in that it appears that although Leviathan is clearer in the newer pic, and there's a little more detail in the background, it looks to me like it could be evidence of downgraded lighting effects. It could also be time of day.

Now, this is very very important to understand before you reply to me:

I am NOT arguing that one build is necessarily better than the other. I am NOT arguing that they have done no downgrades. I am arguing that it's completely inconclusive and it's leading a lot if otherwise intelligent people to making definitive statements that contradict each other.

I am not threatened by graphical downgrades. For one, I was already positive there would have to be some. I have a decent pc, and I have a ps4. I know what they're capable of. I am also getting a Neo, so none of it will even end up applying to me in the end. I am, however, sick of people on the internet spitting on my ass and telling me it's raining.

The bottom line here is that as much as you deny it, it really is plain as day and most in the thread are prepared to acknowledge. I'm not sure why you aren't. The Uncovered footage is not representative of the final look of the game and the footage we've seen here is conclusively worse than footage at Uncovered for the vast majority. I wasn't being snippy, I'm genuinely shocked you'd deny it and that you can't see it, but at this point have given up on convincing you to see reason.

As I said, I'm rooting for Duscae visuals and I'm confident they can reach them. They're a good team.

 

[DrBretto]

The bottom line here is that as much as you deny it, it really is plain as day and most in the thread are prepared to acknowledge. I'm not sure why you aren't.

I swear to God I will punch you in the face through the screen if you make this accusation one more time, lol. I am not arguing against the possibility of downgrades. Re read my post. I specifically said I am not saying there isn't a downgrade. I said the stuff people were pointing to isn't the proof they think it is. I gave examples from this thread, then posted examples of other screenshots where the screenshots look better despite whatever changes have been made. See specifically the leviathan part, where I flat out said despite what looks like downgraded lighting effects, there are some out there saying the newer shot looks better.

I do not have a problem with downgrades. My point here is that they're being blown out of proportion if the things like the angle of the shadows overshadows the actual differences. Especially of some of the shots look arguably better in the newer footage. The point is about how, if so many are pointing to these things that it's hard to tell what's a downgrade and what's the time of day, then the downgrade isn't exactly a big deal.

Now, I'm basing all if that on the screenshot comparisons because I care so little about whether or not there have been major downgrades that I only watched the videos all over again and really scrutinized it just now. Again, reiterating that it wasn't my point, but, if it makes you feel happy, I do think there are differences. The easiest concrete thing I can point to is the level of detail in the skin, especially up close. You can see blemishes on Ignis' face in the scene where he gives Noctis the bad news. It's far more pronounced in the uncovered trailer than it is in the most recent footage. My guess is they cut out some of the skin translucency because it's a huge drain on resources for minimal gain. Most likely, this is the 'flatness' you guys were talking about.

However, there is still nothing in that screenshot above that is conclusive or can't be explained by a different angle of light, and the different pose. Everything in it is brighter. The shadows being cast in the original overpower everything to the point that it is impossible to draw a conclusion.

The same can be said about the Leviathan picture, which demonstrates what appears to remove or reduce post-processing effects that darken shadows when a light source is facing the camera, which would be a graphical downgrade if it didn't have the side effect of sacrificing visibility for realism. This, I'm guessing, is why the new we version looks better to some. You can see more detail when its not being blacked out.

Or, maybe they increased the gamma everywhere and it's making it easier to see some flaws. I can't tell for sure. And I don't care to super-sleuth myself into manufactured disappointment over such tiny differences when the game still looks pretty amazing.

So, again, I'm not blind or dumb. I'm having no trouble seeing what I'm seeing. I'm not in denial. You just missed my point and made assumptions.

 

[LeonBlade]

no downgrade here apparently; this is weird.

Yeah, the whole Leviathan scene is pure upgrade.

I honestly hope the Neo is able to reproduce the same quality graphical FINAL FANTASY trailer XV Walkthrough October 2014

for me the only downgrade that there was this video forward, the graphical quality was superb.

I actually think this looks kind of crappy in a way. There's no real artistic direction in anything.

 

[Nova]

Did people forget about the IQ, draw distance, and water reflection issues from that October footage?

Yeah, the whole Leviathan scene is pure upgrade.

Even with the water?

 

[LeonBlade]

Even with the water?

Maybe? We can't even see the water that well in the original.

 

[Death Penalty]

snip

I didn't miss your point at all, but you clearly missed mine. You're saying a downgrade cannot be determined from those screenshots, when in fact it can and is painfully obvious. I don't know what you'd consider proof at this point if not pictures. You can argue subjectivity if you really must continue to do so but I simply don't believe it's valid here. If you can't see it, you can't see it and that's quite alright. However, it's there and it's even better represented in video comparisons that you should really take a closer look at. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong. I'm sure we're both mature enough to leave it at that. In the meantime, I'm going to discuss the graphical changes in this thread with people who are interested in talking about them.

Yeah, the whole Leviathan scene is pure upgrade.

They scaled back a few things in this scene: the water which was already mentioned and the mist actually acts as a distance fog to cut down on things rendered in detail in the distance but overall it really is a much more attractive scene at this point. It looks like it may have even been a WIP at the point of its reveal, what with Luna's battle damage and particle effects being added in in the meantime. While people are focusing on downgrades they tend to ignore a lot of the work and headway that XV's dedicated team has made in the meantime. It's a real shame that their work gets buried under more sensational news.

 

[Bionicle8563]

Square should've had a partnership with Subaru:

 

[LeonBlade]

They scaled back a few things in this scene: the water which was already mentioned and the mist actually acts as a distance fog to cut down on things rendered in detail in the distance but overall it really is a much more attractive scene at this point. It looks like it may have even been a WIP at the point of its reveal, what with Luna's battle damage and particle effects being added in in the meantime. While people are focusing on downgrades they tend to ignore a lot of the work and headway that XV's dedicated team has made in the meantime. It's a real shame that their work gets buried under more sensational news.

Unfortunately, there are people that are determined that this game is bad no matter what, they will reject anything that goes against their opinion.

 

[DrBretto]

I didn't miss your point at all

You're actively misrepresenting my point again. Understand, we aren't disagreeing you're annoying the fuck out of me by missing my point entirely and then telling me it's something else. But that's fine, I have no desire to explain it to someone who isn't reading. That's three times now, so I'm done.