FFXV discussion thread [No Spoilers]

[Bazztek]

Wasn't that designed specifically for the game itself, you don't exactly see Roen on Noct's clothes do you?
In fact from the looks of it, it was a collaboration, that's a bit different, then looking into a shop, and seeing Coca Cola, or American Express don't you think?

Every product placement in XV was a form of collaboration. There was American Express cards in Japan that netted you FFXV merchandise and copies of the game, cup noodles had TV avertisement for Cup Noodle alongside XV, the Audi being put into Kingsglaive had a real Audi made IRL, the Roen clothes were all sold and made for real by Roen etc. And the reasoning Nomura gave "Nomura: This is to express the higher level of realism. If we based it on an actual real subject, it will feel more real."

Thing is you can actually see those brands in game, the Roen clothing was created in collaboration in the game itself, it directly affected the game in a meaningful way, and you wouldn't know it's a Roen design unless you looked up Noctis cosplay.

I'm not going to comment on Kingslaive because that's not the game it's a movie, The Roen stuff makes sense as in world as during the Versus XIII days they Lucis Caelum dynasty along with the people living in Insomnia worshipped the goddess of death Etro, so it wouldn't break the immersion.

American Express, Cup Noodle, Audi very much could possibly break the immersion of living in another world, as for one I don't remember America being a place in Eos.

You said the product placement in the current game is Nomura's idea, and you used Roen to prove it, and I'm showing you why Roen isn't a good example, those clothes were designed for the game, Square collabed with Roen to make those designs for the game itself, and it also made sense in the world they set up, people who worship a goddess of death would very well have clothes in relation to that goddess herself, so it wouldn't break the immersion. However I wouldn't put it past Nomura to put American Express in Final Fantasy Versus XIII, but I wouldn't call the product placement we see in the game as is eg. American Express his idea, because as it seems the Roen part was in relation to the character designs as well as the world in which they exist in, so it seems like a no-brainer to use designs for a company like Roen that can not only reflect the goddess of death worship aspect, but also reflect the game being based on the real world we live in today. American Express does not do this.

I never heard of Coleman before I saw XV doing a collaboration, I never heard of Roen before I saw Versus/XV doing a collaboration. You see the Roen branding on the main casts clothes the same way you see the Coleman branding on the tent and camping gear, it doesn't fucking matter if it was made for the game or not, they are real products that exist in real life that are used in the game, and it was Nomura who opted for that concept to begin with, any and all product placement put in the game thereafter was all because Nomura opened the floodgates for it.

The camping gear affected the game in a "meaningful way" the same way Roen outfits did. And before the game was even out they had massive displays at game events with ROEN X FINAL FANTASY VERSUS XIII with the clothes on dispay for all to see and take pictures of. Kingsglaive is canon to the game and the Audi is Noctis's car, the audio drama also has Noctis and Ignis in the audi too.

I think you have some screws loose. What the actual fuck does using Roen outfits have to do with the caelum dynasty or worshipping Etro? None of those things have anything to do with Etro, and Noctis and co all had original place holder outfits by Nomura prior to them even doing the Roen clothes, Roen simply just redesigned the clothe concepts that Nomura gave them but created actual real world clothes which they sell in their stores. That has absolutely nothing to do with death worship or a royal dynasty at all. You aren't making a single lick of sense.

"oh because it was versus it doesn't break immersion that there was real world clothes by fashion company Roen, but because they relaced the FNC mythos with Cosmogony mythos it breaks immersion now even though it's still the same Tokyo based city with a royal family protecting a crystal!"

I guess you forget that in Versus there was a sign for British Cafe, but it's OK when Versus or Nomura does it, right?

Seriously what the fuck man, the clothes have nothing to do with death worship, they are literally just real world clothes that Roen created based on the placeholder designs of plain regular clothes they they all had.

In Lightning Returns they worship Etro yet there isn't a single fucking person in that game dressed like anyone from Versus or in Roen clothes. I don't know how you can talk out of your ass like that and actually believe the bullshit you spout.

Nomura's own words "This is to express a higher level of realism. If we based it on an actual real subject, it will feel more real.". That reasoning therefore extends to any and all product placement in the game.

 

[Lulcielid]

Re: product placement

They´re as much inmersion breakers as seeing NPCs using forks to eat at Lestallum, generic NPCs using generic clothing everywhere, cars and characters using real life [insert language] terminology.

Spoiler

AKA they break nothing

 

[xXShuyaXx]

 

[Ikkin]

Re: product placement

They´re as much inmersion breakers as seeing NPCs using forks to eat at Lestallum, generic NPCs using generic clothing everywhere, cars and characters using real life [insert language] terminology.

Spoiler

AKA they break nothing

I'd say it's more comparable to the Final Fantasy shout-outs everywhere -- Bank of Spira, Junon Super Oil, Banora White, Great Glacier Cola, Pyrefly Motor Oil, etc. -- in the sense that the game actually seems to value the spark of recognition over pure immersion in general.

For me, the only times when the product placement got too distracting was when they explicitly called it out, like Cup Noodles and the Vivienne Westwood dress. I suspect that the ones that weren't called out wouldn't have been seen as much of an issue had Squenix not been talking up their partnerships in real life.

Anyway, speaking of product placement... is Ebony coffee a real thing? There was a logo for it in the corporate collaboration section of the credits, but I've never heard of it before. XD;

 

[wmlk]

Ebony/Black Engine is the name of the Versus engine used as a prototype engine for FFXV. Elements of it exist in Luminous Engine Pro.

The whole Ebony shtick is a reference to Versus, I think. No other reason for it to be called that.

 

[T.O.T]

Ebony/Black Engine is the name of the Versus engine used as a prototype engine for FFXV. Elements of it exist in Luminous Engine Pro.

The whole Ebony shtick is a reference to Versus, I think. No other reason for it to be called that.

Ebony coffee is amazing! Ignis knows.

 

[Ikkin]

Ebony/Black Engine is the name of the Versus engine used as a prototype engine for FFXV. Elements of it exist in Luminous Engine Pro.

The whole Ebony shtick is a reference to Versus, I think. No other reason for it to be called that.

That's what I thought, but...

..."Ebony Coffee Roastery" is included in the same section as all of the other product placement partners in the credits. That doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't start with the idea of making a reference to Ebony-the-engine and then find a company to partner with from there (which would explain a partnership with a local coffee roastery in New Zealand), but it's clearly a real company.

On a different note, does anyone know who "RJ Co., Ltd." is or what they might have been responsible for?

 

[wmlk]

That's what I thought, but...

..."Ebony Coffee Roastery" is included in the same section as all of the other product placement partners in the credits. That doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't start with the idea of making a reference to Ebony-the-engine and then find a company to partner with from there, but I'm not sure why they'd include a fictional company in the credits.

On a different note, does anyone know who "RJ Co., Ltd." is or what they might have been responsible for?

Well, there's this.

http://www.ebonycoffee.co.nz/

So I guess it's a thing.

This was used as far back as Duscae I believe and it doesn't look anything like the promo art for the actual Ebony coffee:

I'm guessing to avoid product placement issues they actually got permission to use the real Ebony coffee. Or, it could just be a dumb coincidence and they actually like that coffee.

 

[BladeRunner]

I think some of you are missing the main issue with product placement. It's not whether it exists or not that is the problem, it's how intrusive and in-your-face it is. Signs and banners simply being present in a modern city area are are not intrusive and barely noticeable. As opposed to a quest dedicated to advertising a product, which while kinda saves its face by being ironic, is still very out-of-place.

Oh wait, I forgot every FFXV thread has to inevitably devolve into petty director wars, don't mind me.

 

[Hey Everyone]

Every product placement in XV was a form of collaboration. There was American Express cards in Japan that netted you FFXV merchandise and copies of the game, cup noodles had TV avertisement for Cup Noodle alongside XV, the Audi being put into Kingsglaive had a real Audi made IRL, the Roen clothes were all sold and made for real by Roen etc. And the reasoning Nomura gave "Nomura: This is to express the higher level of realism. If we based it on an actual real subject, it will feel more real."

I never heard of Coleman before I saw XV doing a collaboration, I never heard of Roen before I saw Versus/XV doing a collaboration. You see the Roen branding on the main casts clothes the same way you see the Coleman branding on the tent and camping gear, it doesn't fucking matter if it was made for the game or not, they are real products that exist in real life that are used in the game, and it was Nomura who opted for that concept to begin with, any and all product placement put in the game thereafter was all because Nomura opened the floodgates for it.

The camping gear affected the game in a "meaningful way" the same way Roen outfits did. And before the game was even out they had massive displays at game events with ROEN X FINAL FANTASY VERSUS XIII with the clothes on dispay for all to see and take pictures of. Kingsglaive is canon to the game and the Audi is Noctis's car, the audio drama also has Noctis and Ignis in the audi too.

I think you have some screws loose. What the actual fuck does using Roen outfits have to do with the caelum dynasty or worshipping Etro? None of those things have anything to do with Etro, and Noctis and co all had original place holder outfits by Nomura prior to them even doing the Roen clothes, Roen simply just redesigned the clothe concepts that Nomura gave them but created actual real world clothes which they sell in their stores. That has absolutely nothing to do with death worship or a royal dynasty at all. You aren't making a single lick of sense.

"oh because it was versus it doesn't break immersion that there was real world clothes by fashion company Roen, but because they relaced the FNC mythos with Cosmogony mythos it breaks immersion now even though it's still the same Tokyo based city with a royal family protecting a crystal!"

I guess you forget that in Versus there was a sign for British Cafe, but it's OK when Versus or Nomura does it, right?

Seriously what the fuck man, the clothes have nothing to do with death worship, they are literally just real world clothes that Roen created based on the placeholder designs of plain regular clothes they they all had.

In Lightning Returns they worship Etro yet there isn't a single fucking person in that game dressed like anyone from Versus or in Roen clothes. I don't know how you can talk out of your ass like that and actually believe the bullshit you spout.

Nomura's own words "This is to express a higher level of realism. If we based it on an actual real subject, it will feel more real.". That reasoning therefore extends to any and all product placement in the game.

Never said it was ok when Nomura does it, I specifically said I wouldn't put it past him to do such a thing like put American Express, oh btw dover? that doesn't seem as out of place as American Express.
You can't compare the XIII trilogy to Versus, Nomura was going to opposite direction of that, so it was going to be more realistic from the jump, how realistic well we never got to see his vision so I we don't know.

 

[Jenova]

Man, I would love to see a city level like Insomnia come back like in the early concept trailers. Surely we could roam around an empty Insomnia in the World of Ruin before facing Ardyn in future updates? A shame we never got to pilot any mechs either.

 

[Hey Everyone]

Man, I would love to see a city level like Insomnia come back like in the early concept trailers. Surely we could roam around an empty Insomnia in the World of Ruin before facing Ardyn in future updates? A shame we never got to pilot any mechs either.

Oh someone's gonna kill me for saying this, you will see this concept in Final Fantasy Versus XV.

 

[Jenova]

Oh someone's gonna kill me for saying this, you will see this concept in Final Fantasy Versus XV.

I wish you were banned.

 

[xXShuyaXx]

Oh someone's gonna kill me for saying this, you will see this concept in Final Fantasy Versus XV.

I think we've gone way beyond past that now.

 

[Jubileus]

Man, I would love to see a city level like Insomnia come back like in the early concept trailers. Surely we could roam around an empty Insomnia in the World of Ruin before facing Ardyn in future updates? A shame we never got to pilot any mechs either.

I recall Tabata saying in a recent interview that, if given the time and resources, he would considering expanding the map, which may include Insomnia.

Of course I wouldn't expect the entire city but a portion of it would be alright.

Spoiler

The small part of it we got to play in ch14 could turn out nicely if they added in a bit more streets and reverted it back to how it was in its glory days with shops and people about.

With that said there is the question of what would be the purpose of including that in the game, story wise I mean.

Flashback for character background purposes makes sense, like Noctis and Prompto going to an arcade or café as school kids.

 

[Storm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5t367b/pitioss_ruins_revelations/

i want parts of this to be canon so MUCH
why random players manage to make an interesting and detailed explanation like this and the devs puts nothing in the game (unless their intention was to left things open for imagination...)

 

[T.O.T]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5t367b/pitioss_ruins_revelations/

i want parts of this to be canon so MUCH
why random players manage to make an interesting and detailed explanation like this and the devs puts nothing in the game (unless their intention was to left things open for imagination...)

There's no doubt the dungeon tells some type of story. I wish it was covered specifically in the strategy guide or something.

 

[Jubileus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5t367b/pitioss_ruins_revelations/

i want parts of this to be canon so MUCH
why random players manage to make an interesting and detailed explanation like this and the devs puts nothing in the game (unless their intention was to left things open for imagination...)

Nice find.

Some fans write the most interesting explanations for the game I swear. This kind of speculation I don't mind. It's the outlandish ones that make me want to facepalm from embarrassment.

There's no doubt the dungeon tells some type of story. I wish it was covered specifically in the strategy guide or something.

Yeah that's what I thought when I first went through that dungeon. So many intriguing symbolism in there. Such an amazing and unique dungeon if I saw any.



This just leads me to believe that, on paper, the people over at Square have already worked out and written down the intricate and detailed story parts for the game, but just weren't able to fit it all into the game due to time and space on the disc. So they weren't "winging it" like some people believe.

If you look at the Big Bang artwork, Ardyn's concept art in the FFXV artbook (http://i.imgur.com/1SmssiH.png), Luna and Ravus' art in the same book (http://i.imgur.com/YHFbOkn.png), and just some of the general concept art they had for environments, you could gauge that they had a very rich, detailed, and very involved story for the game.

The most telling one is the Big Bang artwork. You could tell that they had an epic tale with all these summons appearing but had to be cut. Only the first half of that artwork makes sense with what happens in the game.

Next is the Ardyn concept art. I think they already fully wrote out his backstory.

Since the game has performed so well sales wise, I do hope that they would make use of all of these intriguing ideas by continuing to add to this game 2 years post release.

 

[Ikkin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5t367b/pitioss_ruins_revelations/

i want parts of this to be canon so MUCH
why random players manage to make an interesting and detailed explanation like this and the devs puts nothing in the game (unless their intention was to left things open for imagination...)

Part of the theory is that Pitioss was designed by a guy who'd worked on Bloodborne, a game that's infamous for relying almost entirely on environmental storytelling to convey its story.

With that said, there are some parts of it that I love, but there are other parts that depend on faulty premises.

Spoiler

Starting with the stuff I like:

• The idea of the fantastical protrusions on Ravatough being a wing and Ifrit's horns is kind of brilliant. I'd been convinced that that volcano had to have something to do with Ifrit since it was first shown, and it's completely plausible that Ifrit's original corpse could have been resting on top of there (especially given what happened to the area where Shiva's corpse fell).
• The idea of Pitioss representing a journey into the underworld in search of a fallen goddess makes a whole ton of sense, and I intend to keep that in mind when I go through that section myself.

On the other hand, I find the following unconvincing or based on faulty premises:

• The idea that Gladio's DLC will take place in the underworld. Given Cor's presence in what we've seen of the DLC, I suspect the nature of that episode will be far less supernatural than that.
• The idea that Taelpar Crag was created by Ifrit alone. It's explicitly stated that it's the consequence of the fighting between the Astrals, so it's strange to attribute it to the actions of only one of them.
• The idea that the Meteor isn't the source of the Starscourge. Some of the localizations confirm this outright.
  
• The idea that Ifrit managed to escape the underworld with the corpse of Eos. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the dungeon that really hints at it, and the "Ifrit lit a pyre on Ravatough" scenario could have easily happened before the underworld journey.
  
• The idea that the winged figure in the prophecy artwork is the goddess Eos in the first place. The tutorial room makes it clear that the winged figure represents the Oracle, and I'm not sure there's any particular reason to believe that the statue of the woman in Pitioss is a goddess named Eos.
• The idea that the Oracle line could have had divine blood. One of the Cosmogony books explains the source of the Oracle's powers, and it's Bahamut.
• The idea that multiple levels of associations (like Marlboro Tentacles -> Marlboro Vines -> Doomtrain summon or Owlyss -> Aegolius -> Aegolius Funereus -> ill-omened funeral) can provide any meaningful insight into the story being told by the dungeon.
• And, most importantly, the idea that Ifrit is a misunderstood hero, if only because it flies in the face of literally everything the game does on a surface level. FFXV's Ifrit is as blatant a Satan expy as the FF series has ever had. An argument that effectively amounts to "Satan is actually the good guy" requires a bit more evidence than some meaningful item placement and architecture.

With that said, here's my working theory:

The female figure in Pitioss serves as FFXV's equivalent to Etro. The core concept behind Etro is that she's a goddess who passes into the Unseen Realm after dying and finds that the Unseen Realm is infected with Chaos, which threatens the stability of the universe. Etro then serves as a death goddess, receiving human souls and imbuing them with Chaos before sending them back out in the world in an effort to retain balance. The goal of the other gods in the FNC mythos is to open the gate to the Unseen Realm through the deaths of an enormous amount of humans so Etro can be slain, because she's mistakenly seen as the source of the Chaos that will inevitably destroy the world. It also seems like she was intended to be the source of Noct's powers in Versus XIII, since he could see the light shining from the Unseen Realm as a result of a near-death experience.

If the Ravatough and Pitioss imagery is interpreted in that light, a rather different story emerges. Ifrit doesn't embark on a journey to the underworld to save the female figure from imprisonment. She's already dead, and the pyre on Ravatough is his first attempt to follow after her. It doesn't work, of course, because the Astrals don't go through through the gate when they "die," but it would explain why part of him looks burned. So, he decides to run with the FNC plan and summons a plague-ridden Meteor to kill a bunch of humans to force the gate open (which would explain why his hatred for humans hadn't been a problem beforehand, at least). This gets him into the underworld like he was hoping.

There's no need to alter the descent all that much, at least up to the point where the female statue comes into play. If she's a slightly-revamped Etro, then she wouldn't have been banished for having part-human offspring. She'd be attempting to stave off the darkness around her until being forced to pass that role onto a (human) successor. The Genji Gloves at her navel could still figuratively represent "giving birth," but instead of literal children, she'd "give birth" to a line of human souls intended to fulfill the role she could no longer fulfill -- the line of Lucis (whose divine ability to wield spectral weapons is never fully explained, even though we've been told the origins of the Crystal, the Ring, and the Oracle) -- before fading into the darkness. Cue Ifrit's infection with the Starscourge, cataclysmic fall, and desperate flight from the underworld trailing the scourge behind him.

After that, infected!Ifrit could have the massive fight with the other Astrals that created Taelpar Crag before dying at Shiva's hands.

As for the Crystal, the idea that it was cut from the heart of the female figure is really cool, but it makes more sense that Bahamut (the Astral who actually gave it to humanity) would have done that after Ifrit went AWOL than that Ifrit did it himself but lost it to the other Astrals.

 

[T.O.T]

@Jubileus Who knows what they had written, but didn't have the time to work in. Ravus ad Luna may have indeed been intended to have more screen time, which we may still see later on. With the short comings the project had, I am okay with the overall product. At least we'll know for fact that some of the upcoming DLC is going to have weight to it, and it won't simply be more gameplay. FFXV does indeed have a lot of subtle things, and I'm starting to understand the design strategy of some things in the same (e.g. all of the hunts and radios) to help reduce chances of a player missing out on subtle details.