Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

[Ikkin]

Breaking even.

So, assuming the UK retail price at launch of (rounded figures) £40. It's basically 5,000,000 x 40, not taking variations in price/currency, the fact that it's rounded figures, and returns or unsold units into account.
So taking out those factors, in breaking even on day one with 5 million worldwide shipped/sold, that would mean an estimated combined development/marketing cost of 200 million pounds ($247,384,000/¥27,806,357,940 approx.). That would likely include the internal and marketing budgets for Brotherhood and Kingsglaive as well, though it's unlikely to include the work done on the PS3 Versus prototypes pre-2012.
Add another million units sold, and even with price reductions following launch, its profits are well above that figure by now. Wow, even if it doesn't exceed ten million in worldwide sales, it's managed to pay back for itself big time.

Using US prices, I've seen the developer/publisher share of the revenue from a $60 video game estimated at ~$27, so I'd split your estimate of how much they made back on day one in half.

If that's the case, they would have broken even with ~$125mil in sales. My own guess for the cost of the game's development was ~$80mil, with Kingsglaive and Brotherhood constituting maybe another $25-30mil. There's no way to know how much profit they made beyond break-even on day one, though.

Since they sold in a fifth of their day one sales after launch, though, they should have earned at least ~$25mil in profit so far.

 

[Guitar (pseudo)God]

SE's financials looked great. And given the news, this bodes well for future AAA FF titles.

If they have 70% of BD2 still on FFXV, I'm very curious what their DLC penetration rate projections are. They seem bound and determined to mitigate the flaws of the base game too, so maybe these updates will extend beyond 2017.

 

[Ikkin]

If they have 70% of BD2 still on FFXV, I'm very curious what their DLC penetration rate projections are. They seem bound and determined to mitigate the flaws of the base game too, so maybe these updates will extend beyond 2017.

I suspect that keeping 70% of the team on the game has less to do with DLC penetration rate projections (since DLC is usually done with much smaller teams) and more to do with Squenix re-configuring its old International/Final Mix model to aim at a Director's Cut/PC edition rather than the initial global release.

Remember, between the initial JP release and the EU release, FFVII and FFXII took an extra ~11 months, FFX took an extra ~10 months, and FFVIII and FFIX took an extra ~8 months. FFXII even continued in development past its EU release, with IZJS releasing a year and a half after the initial JP release.

Since FFXV had a simultaneous global release, it can't really hide its extra development time behind localization, but the model is still a familiar one for Squenix. Then again, Tabata seems to be using some of his resources for more experimental purposes, like developing PC settings that sound like the 2017 equivalent of Crysis and adding a VR mode, which are probably aimed as much at improving the Luminous toolset than at "completing" FFXV.

 

[Nova]

Idk, i still have a good feeling that the updates at the end of the day will turn XV into a different game, positively.

Also:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1341623&page=1

Obiligatory towards salt reactions (again).

 

[Guitar (pseudo)God]

I suspect that keeping 70% of the team on the game has less to do with DLC penetration rate projections (since DLC is usually done with much smaller teams) and more to do with Squenix re-configuring its old International/Final Mix model to aim at a Director's Cut/PC edition rather than the initial global release.

Remember, between the initial JP release and the EU release, FFVII and FFXII took an extra ~11 months, FFX took an extra ~10 months, and FFVIII and FFIX took an extra ~8 months. FFXII even continued in development past its EU release, with IZJS releasing a year and a half after the initial JP release.

Since FFXV had a simultaneous global release, it can't really hide its extra development time behind localization, but the model is still a familiar one for Squenix. Then again, Tabata seems to be using some of his resources for more experimental purposes, like developing PC settings that sound like the 2017 equivalent of Crysis and adding a VR mode, which are probably aimed as much at improving the Luminous toolset than at "completing" FFXV.

Good points. IIRC, the Luminous development team was put under BD2, so ostensibly the stuff they're screwing around with --- like off-roading and VR --- are more in line with maturing the engine with the side benefit of additional content. So perhaps the post-launch support will extend further, depending on what comes next for Luminous.

The DLC stuff came from a comment Tabata made at Gamescom (if memory serves) in response to Versus/XV development costs. He said that the company's budgets are strictly controlled. I'm speculating on whether there'll be more expansions to justify development independent of Luminous.

 

[Ikkin]

Idk, i still have a good feeling that the updates at the end of the day will turn XV into a different game, positively.

I dunno about "a different game" -- I don't think we're going to see anything like IZJS levels of gameplay alterations, for instance, if only because the game really doesn't seem to need it.

Ideally, what we'd get would be more in line with Advent Children Complete or KHIIFM+. Neither of those are ground-up revisions (though I suppose KHIIFM+'s Critical Mode might count as such), but the inclusion of some well-placed additional scenes really helped flesh out what was already there. And I don't think it would be that difficult for FFXV's additional content to do the same -- at a minimum, they could:

Spoiler

• Add a few flashbacks in as dreams when Noct sleeps after certain points in the game. One would have to be the Dawn trailer scene (seriously, there's no reason for that not to be in the game =P ); other options include a scene showing Noct and Luna interacting as normal kids, the Regis part of the Omen trailer, and Regis saving Noct from the Marilith.
• Provide a few full letters between Noct and Luna to show that they kept in touch beyond doggy text messages and establish their relationship before her death. Ideally, there'd be voiceovers and animation to go along with these.
  
• Add a scene explaining how Ravus actually changed his mind about Noct. For instance, show him actually writing those letters that Noct found around him in Zegnautus. Even clarifying that they're each intended to reflect a different part of his arc would help a lot -- it'd be way more obvious what happened if you see him struggling to write the letter about sending an escort to take Luna and Gentiana to Tenebrae from a hospital bed, leaving the almost-fight with Noct at the base in Duscae to write the letter about Noct still being unworthy despite Ramuh's blessing, and sending his final letter about restoring Noct's sword before boarding an airship to Altissia.
• Show at least one person (preferably Iedolas) turning into a daemon.
• Include a single scene in which the bros talk about what happened in each of the DLCs. This can remain vague enough to make people want to play while still feeling like it's not completely ignored within the story.

That's, what, maybe 25 minutes of extra cutscenes at most, some of which would have already been mostly developed?

Spoiler

Amusingly enough, I feel like reinstating the "eyes that see the light of expiring souls" in the form of "Noct gets visions of dead people's memories" could entirely resolve the tension between the game wanting to keep Noct's perspective while also including important revelations that Noct isn't around for. Nearly all of the people who'd be served by 3rd person omniscient scenes -- Regis, Luna, Ravus, Iedolas -- are dead by the time their scenes could appear without spoiling later revelations, and Noct already acts like he actually saw the Luna flashbacks even though the people he was talking to weren't actually around for them and couldn't have told him about them. Just make his eyes glow purple when those kinds of scenes happen and imply that it's a King of Light power. =P

Good points. IIRC, the Luminous development team was put under BD2, so ostensibly the stuff they're screwing around with --- like off-roading and VR --- are more in line with maturing the engine with the side benefit of additional content. So perhaps the post-launch support will extend further, depending on what comes next for Luminous.

The DLC stuff came from a comment Tabata made at Gamescom (if memory serves) in response to Versus/XV development costs. He said that the company's budgets are strictly controlled. I'm speculating on whether there'll be more expansions to justify development independent of Luminous.

Exactly (though I suspect that offroading is an example of a cut feature from the game's design doc that they wanted to finish rather than something entirely new).

I think the devs have already implied that they'd like to expand beyond their current plans. Didn't they hint that they might look into doing a Luna DLC if there was enough fan interest?

 

[Nova]

Ideally, what we'd get would be more in line with Advent Children Complete or KHIIFM+. Neither of those are ground-up revisions (though I suppose KHIIFM+'s Critical Mode might count as such), but the inclusion of some well-placed additional scenes really helped flesh out what was already there.

I'm totally fine with that too, and i already personally consider KH2FM pretty "different" in sense compared to vanilla KH2.

 

[Lulcielid]

I'm totally fine with that too, and i already personally consider KH2FM pretty "different" in sense compared to vanilla KH2.

From my perspective the difference between OG KHII and its FM+ re-release is just the latter having "extra fat".

 

[Storm]

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/828935502053011456



also this

http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/02...xplained-episode-ignis-last-due-story-impact/

"... they have been debating internally on which one among Prompto and Ignis should come second. Ultimately, they opted to have Ignis as the protagonist of the last of the bro-focused DLCs, because what happens in his episode has a large impact on the story of Final Fantasy XV, and they want to have the time to create a really solid experience, pretty much keeping the best for last."

 

[Ikkin]

From my perspective the difference between OG KHII and its FM+ re-release is just the latter having "extra fat".

OG KHII was missing a story-critical boss (Roxas) and had an important character (Axel) whose motivations were less comprehensible than Ravus' prior to the story upgrades. If that's "extra fat," then I'm not sure we can expect anything different from FFXV. XD;

 

[Slaintimez]

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/828935502053011456



also this

http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/02...xplained-episode-ignis-last-due-story-impact/

"... they have been debating internally on which one among Prompto and Ignis should come second. Ultimately, they opted to have Ignis as the protagonist of the last of the bro-focused DLCs, because what happens in his episode has a large impact on the story of Final Fantasy XV, and they want to have the time to create a really solid experience, pretty much keeping the best for last."

muh recipehs

 

[Jenova]

It's so hilarious seeing people react so foolishly to this game's success. There's a difference between not liking a certain piece of media and being immature about it. I mean, I'm not particularly fond of the modern Zelda titles, but I don't go out of my way to bash the series for no reason or feel the need to scream my opinions out like a madman frothing at the mouth.

 

[Jenova]

OG KHII was missing a story-critical boss (Roxas) and had an important character (Axel) whose motivations were less comprehensible than Ravus' prior to the story upgrades. If that's "extra fat," then I'm not sure we can expect anything different from FFXV. XD;

Is "Missing" the correct word here? I wouldn't say the Roxas boss fight was missing. In the OG game it does workout since it's more of an internal struggle rather than defeating an antagonist. If anything, Roxas's boss fight in Final
Mix+ was more of fan-service IMO. As for Axel, characters having muddling motivations is par the course for Kingdom Hears if we're being honest here. Plus, it's not like he doesn't explain himself in his final moments in the OG version either. He got sick of working for Org. XIII and betraying his friends so he enacted a plan of his own to save Roxas (and probably by extension Xion even though he doesn't remember her). That's basically the gist of his actions during the course of Kingdom Hearts II. The only actual context for his actions is given in 358/2 Days via his developing friendship with Roxas during their time together in the Organization, but Axel provides his motivation in the original game clear enough. So I guess I am saying I disagree with your comparison to Ravus. One has motivations while the other just kinda lingers there and wants to protect his sister I think?

 

[Nova]

It's so hilarious seeing people react so foolishly to this game's success. There's a difference between not liking a certain piece of media and being immature about it. I mean, I'm not particularly fond of the modern Zelda titles, but I don't go out of my way to bash the series for no reason or feel the need to scream my opinions out like a madman frothing at the mouth.

I love how one of the biggest arguments they have against FFXV's success hinges on "b-but this will influence S.E. to rush out future installment making $$$$$$ out of them!", which is the equivelent of fear mongering. That isn't to say i'd approve of FFXVI having similar launch issues, rather there comes a case where refinement from past flaws is entirely relevent when discussing prospects of the next succesor.

It ignores the fact that BD2 are comitted towards updating XV to achieve higher levels of satisfaction instead of outright ditching it in it's current state post-release.

 

[Slaintimez]

Square released ATR on English:

 

[Storm]

https://twitter.com/kurikaeshii/status/829015984774197248

/dead

 

[Jenova]

I love how one of the biggest arguments they have against FFXV's success hinges on "b-but this will influence S.E. to rush out future installment making $$$$$$ out of them!", which is the equivelent of fear mongering. That isn't to say i'd approve of FFXVI having similar launch issues, rather there comes a case where refinement from past flaws is entirely relevent when discussing prospects of the next succesor.

It ignores the fact that BD2 are comitted towards updating XV to achieve higher levels of satisfaction instead of outright ditching it in it's current state post-release.

Well, it is going to become a trend. Not just at SE, but for all Triple AAA game developers if we're being real here. Base game will launch, and over time improvements/etc. will be added onto the current base via updates and/or DLC. That's not to say games will ship out unfinished, but will definitely have more of their meatier parts left out for post-launch. When you think about it the benefits to both parties are apparent. Developers are given more time to refine their games to achieve higher quality and publishers can recoup costs via post-launch products (much needed since development costs are only going up). Consumers now get more longevity in their games having their gaming experiences last up to months to a year as apposed to just 24 hrs to maybe a week. They'll be some push back initially (like with XV), but the consumer will break and fall into rank in the end. Same thing happened with the Digital vs. Physical debate. Only a matter of time before physical games all but disappear from retailer shelves. People will be so used to it they won't cry uncle by then.

Anyway, the demonization of Square-Enix has been a long time in the making on the Internet. It won't go away overnight. I can't exactly say I haven't been apart of that crowd before in the past or else I'd be lying. However, the current steps they have been taken give me the impression that they are at least trying to win back their base slowly, but surely. Tabata's actions are a farcry away from the XIII days when Toriyama basically ignored all those who criticized XIII and the fanbase (mainly the west) was totally shutout.

 

[Ikkin]

Is "Missing" the correct word here? I wouldn't say the Roxas boss fight was missing. In the OG game it does workout since it's more of an internal struggle rather than defeating an antagonist. If anything, Roxas's boss fight in Final
Mix+ was more of fan-service IMO. As for Axel, characters having muddling motivations is par the course for Kingdom Hears if we're being honest here. Plus, it's not like he doesn't explain himself in his final moments in the OG version either. He got sick of working for Org. XIII and betraying his friends so he enacted a plan of his own to save Roxas (and probably by extension Xion even though he doesn't remember her). That's basically the gist of his actions during the course of Kingdom Hearts II. The only actual context for his actions is given in 358/2 Days via his developing friendship with Roxas during their time together in the Organization, but Axel provides his motivation in the original game clear enough. So I guess I am saying I disagree with your comparison to Ravus. One has motivations while the other just kinda lingers there and wants to protect his sister I think?

Well, it was cut for time in the original game ("At first Nomura was going to put the Roxas fight in Kingdom Hearts II, but due to the time consumption, he took the fight out in the end. He also wanted to add an additional bit to that event, and a new form"), so...

The problem with Axel isn't that his motivations are muddy. It's that the transitions between his actions are entirely missing, and, unlike Ravus, there isn't an obvious trigger for many of them.

Spoiler: Axel

At the beginning of KHII, Axel wants his friend Roxas back. Then, at the end of the Prologue, he tries to kill Roxas because he was ordered to do so. The game doesn't bother to explain how he got out of digital Twilight Town, but he shows up later during Sora's story to kidnap Kairi. Kairi gets away, and suddenly he's apologetic towards Sora, but still not actually helpful. And then he shows up to save Sora's bacon, apparently exhausted from something off-screen, and sacrifices himself to beat a bunch of Dusks.

FM+ adds a bunch of extra scenes about Axel, which show him trying to defend Roxas to OXIII but being threatened into following orders before his turn in the Prologue, freed from digital Twilight Town by Riku and sent off with Namine, and speaking to Roxas posthumously. There was also a novelization that explained some other things, like why Axel seemed exhausted when he showed up to save Sora (i.e. he'd just gotten into a fight with Saix) and what was going on with Axel and Namine (i.e. they were kind of working together).

Needless to say, Axel made a whole lot more sense in FM+ than he did in vanilla KHII. As for Ravus, even without any further scenes, it's possible to recognize his motivations as

Spoiler

"Please, Luna, don't do this, Noct isn't worth throwing your life away."/"If you won't see reason, I'll prove that he isn't worth it."/"There's nothing I can do to change your mind, is there? Well, if you're determined to die anyway, I'd rather support you than make things harder for you"

once you put his various scenes and letters in order. The only part that seems to contradicts that is Kingsglaive, and even that could be interpreted as

Spoiler

him trying to take the Ring and use its power in Noct's place

since he obviously had different motivations than Niflheim.

 

[Koozek]

Work-in-progress footage of the offroad driving, from the English version of the ATR:

They're still not sure if and when they'll put this feature in the main game. They're still polishing up a lot of areas so you don't get stuck all the time with the car. I assume they're tweaking hit boxes/collision handling on debris/shrubs etc. specifically for the car.

 

[Ikkin]

Square released ATR on English:

Hey, the answer to the question about Luna and Noct not speaking by cellphone makes a lot more sense than the unofficial translation of the JP ATR made it seem. Luna doesn't have a cellphone, since cellphones are an Insomnia thing. (I guess that rules out an accept-hunts-by-phone app... =/ )

The question about the Conan segment was kind of hilarious, too. Raio certainly didn't limit himself to softball questions on this one. XD

There's official confirmation about playable Gladio in Ch. 13, and it sounds like the update will include both gameplay and story tweaks to that chapter.

I'm interested to see what they meant by coming up with a way to have the developers show what they're doing to the fans directly. Presumably, it's something other than ATRs, but...?