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I did some info digging...
FFVII PS1 sales round to about 9.8 million including re-releases.
In Japan it sold 3.2 million excluding the Ultimate Hits and International versions. Including them bumps sales to 4.1 million. This would mean that sales in the west would quote the remaining 5.7 million sales (probably including the re-releases). Can't find any sales numbers for them but the EU Platinum edition came out in 1998 while the US Greatest Hits version came out in 2000. So let's take some theoretical math here, FFVII sold more in the west than Japan and the re-releases in Japan bumped sales by about 900k. So let's say the re-releases in the west sold an additional 1m~1.5m (1.25m average), this could actually be even more, as the PC version of FFVII only released in the US alone sold over 1m units. So having gained the traction and fame, the greatest hits version could have given it a nice boost.
That would bring down the sales before re-releases to 3.2 (JP) and 4.25 (west), coming to approx 7.45m counting sales before any re-releases. However, FFVII in the first week sold over 2m and in the US it sold 1m in about 3.5 months, so pre re-release sales could be a bit lower. Also take into account, SE's statement on the sales are ''shipped''.
Then we look at FFXV, which sold (shipped) over 6m in a little over a month. If a greatest hits version is released, it should come about a year later from it's release. And with the additional support of DLC's and updates, this could help drive more sales within the first year. So can it break the (approx) 7.45m sales that FFVII made (before re-releases), it could. But can it surpass the overall sales of over 11m? Well it wouldn't be fair considering the FFVII PC version (Eidos) sold over 1m and the steam version also sold over 1m.
FFVII PS1 sales round to about 9.8 million including re-releases.
In Japan it sold 3.2 million excluding the Ultimate Hits and International versions. Including them bumps sales to 4.1 million. This would mean that sales in the west would quote the remaining 5.7 million sales (probably including the re-releases). Can't find any sales numbers for them but the EU Platinum edition came out in 1998 while the US Greatest Hits version came out in 2000. So let's take some theoretical math here, FFVII sold more in the west than Japan and the re-releases in Japan bumped sales by about 900k. So let's say the re-releases in the west sold an additional 1m~1.5m (1.25m average), this could actually be even more, as the PC version of FFVII only released in the US alone sold over 1m units. So having gained the traction and fame, the greatest hits version could have given it a nice boost.
That would bring down the sales before re-releases to 3.2 (JP) and 4.25 (west), coming to approx 7.45m counting sales before any re-releases. However, FFVII in the first week sold over 2m and in the US it sold 1m in about 3.5 months, so pre re-release sales could be a bit lower. Also take into account, SE's statement on the sales are ''shipped''.
Then we look at FFXV, which sold (shipped) over 6m in a little over a month. If a greatest hits version is released, it should come about a year later from it's release. And with the additional support of DLC's and updates, this could help drive more sales within the first year. So can it break the (approx) 7.45m sales that FFVII made (before re-releases), it could. But can it surpass the overall sales of over 11m? Well it wouldn't be fair considering the FFVII PC version (Eidos) sold over 1m and the steam version also sold over 1m.
Likes:
Storm
The PC version released a year and a half after the initial Japanese release, a bit less than a year after the US release, and about a half a year after the EU release.
I don't know if there are solid numbers, but the Polygon Oral History mentions that the PC version sold close to a million copies at full price and over a million when counting budget versions and variations.
I don't know if there are solid numbers, but the Polygon Oral History mentions that the PC version sold close to a million copies at full price and over a million when counting budget versions and variations.
Likes:
Storm
https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/823047612576055296
"Tabata said FFXV is the best selling PS4 game in Taiwan. He wants to add Taiwanese foods in the game."
"Tabata said FFXV is the best selling PS4 game in Taiwan. He wants to add Taiwanese foods in the game."
Think about it. They've salvaged a game that was essentially a runaway train of resources and tech for ten years, been busting their proverbials to get it into shape and turn it into something resembling a mainline Final Fantasy title while preserving what many people expected for four of those ten years, had to delay it so they could get the biggest fixes patched in, and are having to deal with post-release updates and suchlike. I'd imagine Tabata at least would be in need of a good long holiday once the major stuff is out the way. And as SQEX isn't Konami, he'll probably get it.
I went through that history. It's quite a read. I was very surprised by the PC version's history, and not at all surprised that the Compilation was partially driven by profit.
I went through that history. It's quite a read. I was very surprised by the PC version's history, and not at all surprised that the Compilation was partially driven by profit.
FFXV was #1 most download game between Nov 28 - Dec 25 according to Famitsu
https://metabblestavern.blogspot.com.ar/2017/01/famitsu-digital-estimates-nov-28-dec-25.html
Based on Famitsu estimates, FFXV was the #3 most downloaded game of 2016 at over 88k downloads.
https://metabblestavern.blogspot.com.ar/2017/01/the-best-selling-digital-games-in-japan.html
https://metabblestavern.blogspot.com.ar/2017/01/famitsu-digital-estimates-nov-28-dec-25.html
Based on Famitsu estimates, FFXV was the #3 most downloaded game of 2016 at over 88k downloads.
https://metabblestavern.blogspot.com.ar/2017/01/the-best-selling-digital-games-in-japan.html
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Likes:
Storm
In my opinion, the JP sales numbers for FFXV are quite meager compared to previous entries in the series, however I am seeing a negative sales trend in console games, which it would actually imply that FFXV is doing extremely well.
Sales for console games in Japan has been on a steady decline over the years and most recent games lately cannot even break 500k. GTAV couldn't please JP fans with about 200k in sales. P5, doesn't quite reach 500k. And TW3 is rather an unpopular game here with mediocre sales. Handheld and mobile games have skyrocketed, whilst console gamers are on the decrease. So in this sense, FFXV reaching anywhere near 1m is quite a feat.
Sales for console games in Japan has been on a steady decline over the years and most recent games lately cannot even break 500k. GTAV couldn't please JP fans with about 200k in sales. P5, doesn't quite reach 500k. And TW3 is rather an unpopular game here with mediocre sales. Handheld and mobile games have skyrocketed, whilst console gamers are on the decrease. So in this sense, FFXV reaching anywhere near 1m is quite a feat.
There's still no intellectual value to it. We went over this already, in this very thread. It's not a sign of anything in either direction. The markets they are in are not comparable. The closest thing you can do is compare the sales to other games in its era, but that's also a little misleading in the other direction, but not nearly as much as this. This is purely misleading for the sake of misleading.
It's not an alarming sign. It's making nothing out to be alarming. And furthermore, we've all accepted that it won't surpass XIII in raw numbers at this point. We've already had discussions on why that might be. What APZ is doing right here is trolling. Pure and simple.
It's not an alarming sign. It's making nothing out to be alarming. And furthermore, we've all accepted that it won't surpass XIII in raw numbers at this point. We've already had discussions on why that might be. What APZ is doing right here is trolling. Pure and simple.
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In Japan, FFXV is the highest selling game on the PS4, roughly doubling the next one on the list. FFXIII sold more in the same amount of time. When these games were released, both the PS3 and PS4 had sold ~3-3.5M consoles. All are true statements.
What does it mean, though? For me, there are other numbers that paint a clearer picture.
- There are over 53M PS4s sold through worldwide.
- Even more astounding, the attach rate is 7.5 games per console sold. That's tracking higher than the halcyon days of the PS2 and Wii.
- FFXV launched in NA to 19% higher physical sales than FFXIII, and more importantly, captured 54% more revenue.
It's obvious that console gaming as a whole is on the decline in Japan. Even the Final Fantasy series isn't immune. You can make all sorts of reasons why FFXV failed to reach FFXIII levels - FFXIII and FFXIV 1.0 fallout, development hell, it wasn't Versus, no Stella, NOMURAAAAA, etc. All of that is projection and none of it matters.
2009 isn't 2017. The console market and the demand for JRPGs moved West. Moreover, I'd argue that overall sales may be misleading (leaving aside the digital sales figures). What's important is revenue. I think a more accurate picture of the overall health of the FF series will be the long-tail sales of the game -- the DLC and SE's implementation of a GaaS model. We'll see what happens at the end of this quarter when SE posts their financials.
What does it mean, though? For me, there are other numbers that paint a clearer picture.
- There are over 53M PS4s sold through worldwide.
- Even more astounding, the attach rate is 7.5 games per console sold. That's tracking higher than the halcyon days of the PS2 and Wii.
- FFXV launched in NA to 19% higher physical sales than FFXIII, and more importantly, captured 54% more revenue.
It's obvious that console gaming as a whole is on the decline in Japan. Even the Final Fantasy series isn't immune. You can make all sorts of reasons why FFXV failed to reach FFXIII levels - FFXIII and FFXIV 1.0 fallout, development hell, it wasn't Versus, no Stella, NOMURAAAAA, etc. All of that is projection and none of it matters.
2009 isn't 2017. The console market and the demand for JRPGs moved West. Moreover, I'd argue that overall sales may be misleading (leaving aside the digital sales figures). What's important is revenue. I think a more accurate picture of the overall health of the FF series will be the long-tail sales of the game -- the DLC and SE's implementation of a GaaS model. We'll see what happens at the end of this quarter when SE posts their financials.
First off - Sales aren't everything, as in my opinion two of the best FFs and my personal favourite (12 and my favourite, 9) are two of the worst selling ones. Sales are still an interesting datapoint though.
To answer the question - cos, er, comparisons are interesting, and fascinating. I've been noting by how much it's been beating 13 in (most) Western territories, too - it paints an interesting picture of the market in itself. For instance: the chasm of difference in Japan is going to have a deep impact on FF16, as they now have an interesting choice: They can focus in on the West even harder (which is what I think they'll do, with an art style that resembles Kingsglaive more and so on) or they can try to find ways to reinvigorate that market in Japan. This is a challenge for all market-leading brands - for FF, for DQ, for Resident Evil, for Sony Studios Japan - in that market. So it's important.
FF15 is a success. I don't think anybody's disputing that, obviously. The situation in Japan is interesting both on a series granularity level and a broader market level, however. Even if we want to place the shift solely on the market (though I reiterate: FF15's decline is a large game-on-game percentage decline than the average for the collapsing Japanese market, indicating there is probably another factor (the open-world, Western-esque design of the game, I think), that in itself has fascinating and major implications for the FF series going forwards. I mentioned Resident Evil earlier; that's a series that throughout its lifetime grew to be more and more Western-focused until we have the most recent entry; made in Japan but with enormous Western focus... Released in the West first, with a Western lead writer, with the Western voice cast used for performance capture first and then the game localized back into Japanese. See also Kojima's work. If FF's sales base skews heavily off towards the West, it will change the approach to future entries, and that's fascinating and supremely interesting.
So, yes -- it bears investigating, it bears repeating, it bears discussing. Let's not act like on the last page alone I didn't: 1) state, unequivocally, that "the franchise decline is a myth", 2) post the US sales figures and call them very good, noting how it will wipe out much of the Japanese decline, 3) talk about how "it'll largely perform in line with the rest of the FF series".
Like, if this is trolling, you really need to grow a pair, innit.
Germany has never been a particularly strong territory for JRPGs (in Europe, France has always absolutely dominated) but the performance of FF15 there has done seriously well b JRPG standards and is like 30-40% up on previous entries. It's a small dent in the international sales obviously because it's a small market, but the growth is very encouraging and can probably be attributed to the game having a more WRPG-like feel, at least in the open world half.
There are important comparisons to make about audience size, because even in a GAS model you want to obviously have the largest possible audience to work with. Activision knew they were going to make money hand-over-fist after the fact with Destiny, but they still needed to sell 10 million at the top to really have the base in which to make the revenue they projected. You're right too, of course - revenue makes an enormous difference. The FF15 stuff is experimentation, but I firmly believe FF16 will slide more into the Games as Service model in a sort of Borderlands, Destiny, Division direction, and so that's going to be a major future bullet point for the series - an attempt to find a middle ground between the MMO FF and the SP FF, built by a mixture of people with experience in both camps. (As an aside: this is what a lot of RPG studios are doing; Bioware's new IP for 2018 is also this kind of game.)
To answer the question - cos, er, comparisons are interesting, and fascinating. I've been noting by how much it's been beating 13 in (most) Western territories, too - it paints an interesting picture of the market in itself. For instance: the chasm of difference in Japan is going to have a deep impact on FF16, as they now have an interesting choice: They can focus in on the West even harder (which is what I think they'll do, with an art style that resembles Kingsglaive more and so on) or they can try to find ways to reinvigorate that market in Japan. This is a challenge for all market-leading brands - for FF, for DQ, for Resident Evil, for Sony Studios Japan - in that market. So it's important.
FF15 is a success. I don't think anybody's disputing that, obviously. The situation in Japan is interesting both on a series granularity level and a broader market level, however. Even if we want to place the shift solely on the market (though I reiterate: FF15's decline is a large game-on-game percentage decline than the average for the collapsing Japanese market, indicating there is probably another factor (the open-world, Western-esque design of the game, I think), that in itself has fascinating and major implications for the FF series going forwards. I mentioned Resident Evil earlier; that's a series that throughout its lifetime grew to be more and more Western-focused until we have the most recent entry; made in Japan but with enormous Western focus... Released in the West first, with a Western lead writer, with the Western voice cast used for performance capture first and then the game localized back into Japanese. See also Kojima's work. If FF's sales base skews heavily off towards the West, it will change the approach to future entries, and that's fascinating and supremely interesting.
So, yes -- it bears investigating, it bears repeating, it bears discussing. Let's not act like on the last page alone I didn't: 1) state, unequivocally, that "the franchise decline is a myth", 2) post the US sales figures and call them very good, noting how it will wipe out much of the Japanese decline, 3) talk about how "it'll largely perform in line with the rest of the FF series".
Like, if this is trolling, you really need to grow a pair, innit.
Germany has never been a particularly strong territory for JRPGs (in Europe, France has always absolutely dominated) but the performance of FF15 there has done seriously well b JRPG standards and is like 30-40% up on previous entries. It's a small dent in the international sales obviously because it's a small market, but the growth is very encouraging and can probably be attributed to the game having a more WRPG-like feel, at least in the open world half.
There are important comparisons to make about audience size, because even in a GAS model you want to obviously have the largest possible audience to work with. Activision knew they were going to make money hand-over-fist after the fact with Destiny, but they still needed to sell 10 million at the top to really have the base in which to make the revenue they projected. You're right too, of course - revenue makes an enormous difference. The FF15 stuff is experimentation, but I firmly believe FF16 will slide more into the Games as Service model in a sort of Borderlands, Destiny, Division direction, and so that's going to be a major future bullet point for the series - an attempt to find a middle ground between the MMO FF and the SP FF, built by a mixture of people with experience in both camps. (As an aside: this is what a lot of RPG studios are doing; Bioware's new IP for 2018 is also this kind of game.)