FFXV Ultimania lore discussion thread

[Ikkin]

Since more and more stuff has been being translated from the Ultimania, I figured I'd make an Ultimania-specific spoiler thread in an attempt to make things easier to find for future reference. (Feel free to re-post Ultimania lore details from elsewhere in service to that goal. )

Anyway, let's start with the new Gentiana details:

A beautiful apostle sent by the gods who keeps watch on the side of the Six. One of the twenty apostles used as apostles/messengers to the gods.

“I visited Tenebrae when Luna Nox Fleuret was born, and stayed close to her like a shadow since then. Although my appearance/existence is supernaturally that of a persons appearance, I have little direct interference with society. I will reach out to the King of Lucis with Luna. I will appear everywhere Noctis goes and show him the way.”

[Source]

The implication seems to be that Gentiana's status as Messenger is more complicated than just acting as an avatar for Shiva, since there are apparently 19 other Messengers and only six Astrals. She clearly isn't human, but she can't just be an Astral in disguise, either.

Maybe the idea is that the Messengers are spiritual intermediaries who exist independently but can be possessed by the Astrals when they so choose? It'd certainly provide an explanation as to why the very conservative-looking Gentiana would transform into a practically-nude Shiva, lol.

 

[Jubileus]

In the game itself it said the Messengers of the gods numbered 24, and that "The 24" was the official name for these messengers.

Interesting how the numbers differ.

I too, am wondering about Gentiana.

It was said Shiva was slain by Niflheim yet she appeared as Gentiana, so quite the loophole there.

 

[Storm]

the slain of gods was poorly explained.

when noctis and ignis talk in the train they mention Niflheim killed three gods, but why does it matter if noctis can invoke them?

 

[Ikkin]

In the game itself it said the Messengers of the gods numbered 24, and that "The 24" was the official name for these messengers.

Interesting how the numbers differ.

When was this said? I don't remember it. o_0

I too, am wondering about Gentiana.

It was said Shiva was slain by Niflheim yet she appeared as Gentiana, so quite the loophole there.

Leviathan showed up looking the same way as she always had after being slain by Niflheim, too, so I don't think the Astrals rely on their semi-mortal physical forms to manifest in the first place.

My guess is that Niflheim's deicide was important more because the Astrals' physical forms were sacred in and of themselves (and possibly provided either protection against the darkness or some other boon to the areas where they rested) than because the Astrals couldn't function in Eos without them.

 

[Jubileus]

When was this said? I don't remember it. o_0



Leviathan showed up looking the same way as she always had after being slain by Niflheim, too, so I don't think the Astrals rely on their semi-mortal physical forms to manifest in the first place.

My guess is that Niflheim's deicide was important more because the Astrals' physical forms were sacred in and of themselves (and possibly provided either protection against the darkness or some other boon to the areas where they rested) than because the Astrals couldn't function in Eos without them.

In one of the outposts in the south western areas of the game, there is a cosmogony book that says this.

"They number in 24 and were thusly named" or something along those lines.

I'll probably start a thread compiling all the Cosmogony info. Very interesting lore in there but alas they weren't expanded upon... yet (gonna put my faith in the story updates for now)

 

[Ikkin]

In one of the outposts in the south western areas of the game, there is a cosmogony book that says this.

"They number in 24 and we're thusly named" or something along those lines.

I'll probably start a thread compiling all the Cosmogony info. Very interesting lore in there but alas they weren't expanded upon... yet (gonna put my faith in the story updates for now)

...for some reason, I didn't think to look in non-story-related outposts for Cosmogony books. >_>; I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for them the next time I play!

 

[Jubileus]

You know what? I'd wager that they already have all the lore and story scenarios completed but obviously they had to cut stuff out because they couldn't optimise everything in time.

If you look at the maps for the 3 different regions in the game, and I mean really look at them very closely, there are a lot of already named areas and towns that we weren't able to explore yet.

In Lucis, the far northern sea, even the far western sea, are named. Why would they name something unless they already had a purpose/scenario for it?

Altissia has a lot of outposts if you look very closely. These are areas outside of the main city and more on the outer edge of the map.

Same with Niflheim.

Point of this post is, as discouraging as these cut content for the game is now, I think it would be reasonable to say we can expect a pretty substantial update within the year regarding the lore.

If you compile everything shown in the Ultimania book, the art book (especially regarding Ardyn - man the art of him in there is so freaking interesting), the official guide, the named parts of the map that we haven't explored yet, and the cosmogony info in the game itself, they've already completed the entire scenario in depth, and it's looking to be very rich and detailed.

 

[Jubileus]

...for some reason, I didn't think to look in non-story-related outposts for Cosmogony books. >_>; I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for them the next time I play!

Yeah they're pretty scattered and contain things that aren't even mentioned in the dialogue in the game.

Great read though I must say. Definitely intriguing stuff.

 

[Storm]

not hyping myself for the dlcs, i think it's better to wait the first one and see what we receive

 

[Jubileus]

Fair point. It's cautiously optimistic for me, with a bit of expecting them to fulfill their potential by the end of the year.

 

[SonOfEtro]

My main question about the Ultimania lore is that it goes into Ifrit igniting a war with the rest of the Astrals, and that he hated humanity and somehow propagated the Starscourge. I really, really, REALLY want to know why Ifrit does this?

 

[Storm]

My main question about the Ultimania lore is that it goes into Ifrit igniting a war with the rest of the Astrals, and that he hated humanity and somehow propagated the Starscourge. I really, really, REALLY want to know why Ifrit does this?

maybe he wasn't worshipped like the other gods and he got jealous

maybe some human tried to steal his power or kill him

or he saw humans as pathetic little creatures unworthy of the land they created (the Six are creators after all).

 

[SonOfEtro]

maybe he wasn't worshipped like the other gods and he got jealous

maybe some human tried to steal his power

or he saw humans as pathetic little creatures unworthy of the land they created (the Six are creators after all).

Or he was programmed to do it somehow. By Providence.

 

[Ikkin]

http://superespresso.tumblr.com/post/155424643126/some-more-ultimania-director-commentary

spoilers obviously

I kind of love how personal of a villain Ardyn ended up being. For all his superhuman capabilities and mythic import, he's really just a man whose bitterness got twisted into outright sadism such that Noct's suffering is the only thing that will truly satisfy him. Even then, Noct doesn't matter as a person to Ardyn; he's important only because of what he represents. (Ardyn stringing up corpses in the throne room is a great way to show how he thinks, really, because it's sort of implicit that it doesn't even matter to him whether his playthings are alive or dead. You know he'd string Noct up there if he won.)

And yet, even though he tortures Noct -- and metatextually tortures us as players -- he still manages to remain a figure of pity, thanks to his original good intentions and the fact that his motivations never really fall outside the realm of human nature gone horribly wrong. He's not looking to become a god or destroy everything. He just wants to make the symbol of everything that wronged him suffer, regardless of the consequences.

I'm definitely glad to have it confirmed that he wasn't trying to do anything altruistic by forcing Noct to destroy him, in any case. xD

 

[Storm]

http://tiny-cup.tumblr.com/post/155356436382

if they made a close-up scene it would be even more impactful.

 

[Ikkin]

http://tiny-cup.tumblr.com/post/155356436382

if they made a close-up scene it would be even more impactful.

Yeah, you don't get the full impact of the mess Ardyn's meddling made of Regis and Iedolas' eyes from a distance. It was downright shocking on Ravus when he was shown up close (though he also had an exposed beating heart to compound matters).

Even so, it's still really gruesome and nasty to look at. It's like Regis and Iedolas' eyes turned into black jelly and started dripping out or something. >_< I wouldn't be surprised if that particular concept took the game dangerously close to another age category even without the close-up. And then there's the unnatural and undignified posing that makes the overall impression that much worse.

...It's still kind of hard to believe that sort of scene came from an FF game. xD;

 

[Storm]

just thinking about the daemon attack that killed noctis mother and inflicted him with the scourge; do you guys think that may have been an attempt by Ardyn to corrupt noctis and make him unworthy of the throne?

 

[SonOfEtro]

just thinking about the daemon attack that killed noctis mother and inflicted him with the scourge; do you guys think that may have been an attempt by Ardyn to corrupt noctis and make him unworthy of the throne?

It wasn't his mother, but his minder or whatever you want to call her - that woman being his mother was a misconception. And... if it was a deliberate attack, that would line up with what Carbuncle said in Platinum Demo about someone not wanting Noctis to wake up. Platinum Demo takes place after Noctis is chosen by the Crystal as the True King, so it wouldn't be entirely impossible. But wouldn't that be a rather flat conclusion from Ardyn's point of view - the whole reason he allowed Noctis to enter the Crystal at all was that he wanted a worthy opponent.

 

[Ikkin]

just thinking about the daemon attack that killed noctis mother and inflicted him with the scourge; do you guys think that may have been an attempt by Ardyn to corrupt noctis and make him unworthy of the throne?

Pretty sure the woman wasn't Noct's mother. And given that Ardyn's goal is to kill Noct at the height of his power, I don't think he would have wanted Noct to lose his Chosen status.

I could see Ardyn sending the Marilith expecting Noct to be saved, though, because terrorizing and torturing Noct as a kid is right up his alley. >_>; Noct going to Tenebrae would provide an excuse to mess with the Oracle, too, which would be gravy.

 

[Storm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5mgwn8/spoilers_more_scenario_ultimania_content/

reading now

edit: nothing new but it seems in japanese the messengers are referred as angels, which makes sense given the cosmogony illustration that luna showed to noctis.