Reboot FINAL FANTASY Versus (Petition)

[Jubileus]

I think this thread is a bit premature guys.

After 2 years, when all the DLC and story updates are completed, if the story is still poorly executed, then, and only then, would it is make sense for a petition to reboot the title.

And even then, I'd still think it would be best to move on and accept the title for what it is.

I mean it's only been 3-4 weeks after release day!

Give it time people. Honestly.

Heck the very first DLC package isn't even out yet completely (event is in January) so have patience with what else SE will bring to the table.

i'm not sure if the cut content will make into the game, i'm cautiously optimistic but there's nothing implying they'll support the game at this extent.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you here.

There are a lot of things I'd love for them to include in the game, but I'm being cautiously optimistic about it since it's those who have absurdly unrealistic expectations who end up the most disappointed, mostly through their own doing tbh.

However I am completely open to being pleasantly surprised if they do make pretty significant additions and slight changes to accomodate these additions.

One example that springs to mind is a Fallout title having changed the ending completely so that players could keep on playing beyond where the story originally ended.

It's a possibility.

 

[Jubileus]

Yeah i respectfully don't agree with this petition. I'd much rather have a petition to flesh out the story of FFXV as it stands.

Agreed.

This makes a lot more sense, doesn't spend as much time and money, and they already have a solid base foundation to work off of.

It's more realistic too.

They need to add alot I think were only getting like 20 minutes of cutscenes at most, we need like 2 hours of cutscenes and more areas added in.

Read your posts in this thread.

Tbh dude you're kinda heaping a lot of unrealistic and unhealthy expectations upon this title.

I really don't think going backwards and bringing up Versus 13 and trying to bring it into the present is healthy at all. It's gone and you need to accept it.

This is from someone who loved the original Versus 13 concept btw. I loved the atmosphere, the mood, the brooding Noctis and Stella... all of it.

And even I managed to move on.

The best thing is to move forward and discuss ways to make the current FFXV title the best it can be, by referencing and using the current pieces of story that are actually used in the game.

What if's, buts, and it would've been's aren't helpful to say the least.

What is it that you want exactly? This is a genuine question btw since I'm trying to understand you here.

A completely rebooted FF Versus 13 game directed by Nomura? With Stella and the Insomnia invasion playable in the game?

 

[Jubileus]

Also if anyone wants to play a game(s) that is as similar as Versus 13 as possible, try 13-2 and 13-3.

If the leaks are true, then the gateway to the realm of the dead, helping souls cross over, killing gods and goddesses are all present in the game.

They are from the same Fabula Nova Crystallis series after all. And look at how the reception for 13-2 and 13-3 was like...

Honestly I think moving away from the FNC was a good move. If they kept it, I don't think fans would've appreciated the similarities.

I know I wouldn't have if it made the story convoluted.

Another thing to keep in mind, if they wanted to keep everything in 1 game, trying to compress all of the original Versus 13 concepts into the game would've lead to a very rushed, poorly paced, and non detailed game.

Even more rushed, poorly paced and non detailed than FFXV in its current unpatched state I'd say.

 

[llazy77]

Agreed.

This makes a lot more sense, doesn't spend as much time and money, and they already have a solid base foundation to work off of.

It's more realistic too.



Read your posts in this thread.

Tbh dude you're kinda heaping a lot of unrealistic and unhealthy expectations upon this title.

I really don't think going backwards and bringing up Versus 13 and trying to bring it into the present is healthy at all. It's gone and you need to accept it.

This is from someone who loved the original Versus 13 concept btw. I loved the atmosphere, the mood, the brooding Noctis and Stella... all of it.

And even I managed to move on.

The best thing is to move forward and discuss ways to make the current FFXV title the best it can be, by referencing and using the current pieces of story that are actually used in the game.

What if's, buts, and it would've been's aren't helpful to say the least.

What is it that you want exactly? This is a genuine question btw since I'm trying to understand you here.

A completely rebooted FF Versus 13 game directed by Nomura? With Stella and the Insomnia invasion playable in the game?

Spoiler

I want all the content that was promised in trailers, the game feels very incomplete. Yes I want the Insomnia Invasion in the game and wanted a better female protagonist even if Stella wasent good enough they didnt replace her with a protagonist that was any better. Luna has no development when she dies you dont get the payoff of her death cause she only had minutes of screentime and backstory before hand. It seemed like Stella wouldve been present througout the whole game based on the leaks. I know though that getting everything I want is pretty unlikley at this point though cause they moved the invasion to the movie and they need to add alot of cutscenes to Luna to make her an actually great character. I also want all the villains and side characters to get developed to like Cor Verstal Ideolas Loqi etc...

So what I want is a reboot of this game with all the content that is missing which I probably wont get. yes its possible to get all this content from Patches and DLC but like you said I shouldnt have too high expectations on this. I expect them to have like 20 minutes of new cutscenes tbh, when they need like 2 hours at least to explore all the character I said werent explored. And alot of areas that are missing. The Character DLC for the new areas might solve this but I dont like that you have to pay for it and I feel like they will be small areas and short DLC's. I want a full explorable Tenabre,Solhiem, Nifhiem and Insomnia. The Propto dlc may have a section of the snowy area of Niflhiem but I want to explore the city there. Tenabre is not happening, Solhiem is not happening, Insomnia is not happening most likley and Altissia will be a little more explorable with the Ignis DLC. And Gladios will be in a cave somewhere. One thing Im bummed out about is that there are only like 2 big cities and they really dropped the ball on that.

One thing I remember though is that Tabata originally said the game was going to be 50 hours for the main story and 200 hours for side quests, I wonder if they cut out 30 hours at the last strech of development for some reason. Because the average play time for the game is about 20 hours for the main story. Or if Tabata just didnt know how long the game was for some reason. If this is the case that extra 30 hours of Story content could be great if they added it in.

 

[Nova]

After 2 years, when all the DLC and story updates are completed, if the story is still poorly executed, then, and only then, would it is make sense for a petition to reboot the title.

I totally agree with just about everything you said, but i still thing the "moving on" option from any petition would be the better scenario should the story issues remain (which i really don't want, no excuses to shit the bed post-release on the improvements phase).

 

[Lulcielid]

Just heads up: this is not the spoiler subforum, refrain from posting untagged spoilers, specially IIazy77.

 

[Storm]

XV is versus but with like 50% or more of the content removed and some character and plot reworks.

there's no reality where the game was complete for you to know how much content was removed.

tabata said Versus XIII/XV was 25% complete when he joined as director; on paper Versus might seem to have a more fleshed out story, but it's never came out.

in the end Tabata made a game with enough content to release, Nomura did not.

there's a really interesting article about XV development
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-27-finishing-final-fantasy

"Despite his studied nonchalance in interviews, Nomura, now one of the company's most senior staff was reportedly an anxious director (during one event in Tokyo a few years ago, when early footage of the game was shown to fans, Nomura sat backstage in front of a monitor relaying live footage of the crowd's faces, so he could watch their reaction in real time.) The game lunged in different directions and, at some point, Nomura was removed from the project. Presumably to recoup sunk costs, the game was retooled and retitled as the next entry to the company's flagship series."

The indignity also provided preparation for his directorship of Final Fantasy 15, a multi-million pound production that, across its slurred decade of development, has been beset with problems, many of which Tabata inherited from his predecessor.

 

[llazy77]

there's no reality where the game was complete for you to know how much content was removed.

tabata said Versus XIII/XV was 25% complete when he joined as director; on paper Versus might seem to have a more fleshed out story, but it's never came out.

Tabata made a game with enough content to release, Nomura did not.

there's a really interesting article about XV development
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-27-finishing-final-fantasy

"Despite his studied nonchalance in interviews, Nomura, now one of the company's most senior staff was reportedly an anxious director (during one event in Tokyo a few years ago, when early footage of the game was shown to fans, Nomura sat backstage in front of a monitor relaying live footage of the crowd's faces, so he could watch their reaction in real time.) The game lunged in different directions and, at some point, Nomura was removed from the project. Presumably to recoup sunk costs, the game was retooled and retitled as the next entry to the company's flagship series."

The indignity also provided preparation for his directorship of Final Fantasy 15, a multi-million pound production that, across its slurred decade of development, has been beset with problems, many of which Tabata inherited from his predecessor.

I know Nomura had problems with development but that was mostly becuase squares management was very troubled for the past decade, you can read all about the development hell in the thread I made about Versus development. Square had troubles with the engine and that caused XIII and XIV to fail causing Nomura to have almost no one to develop XV. They needed the game out tho becuase it took so long so they put it into one game and put Tabata on the team so Nomura could finish of Kh3 and FF7 remake. But the game is story incomplete, characters like Verstal and Ideolas are only in one cutscenes. They have such elaborate designs i'm sure in the original script there stories were more fleshed out and they had more scenarios. Same thing applies to Ravus. Heck why do you think the game was going to be 3 part originally of course the game had a ton of content. Tabatas XV tho only has some scenes from the original script cutting a ton of it out. He is now trying to put it back in through patches now. But it might be too little too late. We will see.

 

[Lulcielid]

The game was never meant to be a trillogy of games IIazy77.

I think this got lost but no interview or article alludes to VSXIII ever been planned to be a trillogy.

 

[llazy77]

The game was never meant to be a trillogy of games IIazy77.

I think this got lost but no interview or article alludes to VSXIII ever been planned to be a trillogy.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/final-fantasy-xv-will-have-multiple-direct-sequels
Multiple direct sequel's implies more than 1 sequel so 3 games at least.

 

[Storm]

There are a lot of things I'd love for them to include in the game, but I'm being cautiously optimistic about it since it's those who have absurdly unrealistic expectations who end up the most disappointed, mostly through their own doing tbh.

yeah i dont know, i think its weird they are focusing in creating a multiplayer and avatar mode (both not relevant) when there's so much important content to be included.

and this whole "there will be a Luna DLC if we have time do it" just shows their dlc priority list might be different than ours =/

 

[Slaintimez]

yeah i dont know, i think its weird they are focusing in creating a multiplayer and avatar mode (both not relevant) when there's so much content to be included.

Nothing weird actually. They have two separate teams who working on DLC.
One team working on seasons pass + multiplayer DLC, other on story updates, bug fixes and etc.

 

[Nova]

Screw it.

Hey, Ilazy. I got a question directly for you.

If the hypothetical Versus XIII reboot directed ONLY by Nomura came out with a bigger mess of a plot compared to XV's, with the gameplay not carrying it enough, how would you personally feel?

 

[llazy77]

Screw it.

Hey, Ilazy. I got a question directly for you.

If the hypothetical Versus XIII reboot directed ONLY by Nomura came out with a bigger mess of a plot compared to XV's, with the gameplay not carrying it enough, how would you personally feel?

The plot would at least have characters that had good screentime at least i'm sure of it. As for the plot being messy that could be the case but FF plots especially Nojimas are usually messy as long as it had enough content I would be fine. As for the gameplay... really a Nomura game having bad gameplay, have you played the kh games?

 

[Nova]

What if the screentime was poorly executed too? What if the content wasn't there? What if the gameplay had issues? Consider these please.

Yes i have. Love me some KH. Felt Days, Re:Coded, and CoM had awful gameplay compared to his best.

 

[Jubileus]

I totally agree with just about everything you said, but i still thing the "moving on" option from any petition would be the better scenario should the story issues remain (which i really don't want, no excuses to shit the bed post-release on the improvements phase).

Very true. I should've included that in the post. Funnily enough I did write that but then deleted it.

I gotta stop doing that lol.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/final-fantasy-xv-will-have-multiple-direct-sequels
Multiple direct sequel's implies more than 1 sequel so 3 games at least.

It goes back and forth a lot.

Originally it was only 1, then it became a triology, and now it's back to 1 title.

The plot would at least have characters that had good screentime at least i'm sure of it. As for the plot being messy that could be the case but FF plots especially Nojimas are usually messy as long as it had enough content I would be fine. As for the gameplay... really a Nomura game having bad gameplay, have you played the kh games?

The thing is, no one can be sure if the characters would've gotten good screen time, seeing as it's only a hypothetical scenario.


Again I have a feeling that you're trying too hard to hold on the "Nomura's vision".

You're trying too hard to come up with arguments that try to make Nomura the true saviour of the game, when in fact we have zero evidence that the game being developed under his direction would've turned out well.

A eurogamer article said when Tabata came in, the development team was demotivated, exhausted, and going nowhere.

That sentence alone should tell you all you need to know about the game's direction under Nomura.

Not hating on the guy, just saying it as it is.

You gotta let go and move forward man.

 

[Jubileus]

Spoiler

I want all the content that was promised in trailers, the game feels very incomplete. Yes I want the Insomnia Invasion in the game and wanted a better female protagonist even if Stella wasent good enough they didnt replace her with a protagonist that was any better. Luna has no development when she dies you dont get the payoff of her death cause she only had minutes of screentime and backstory before hand. It seemed like Stella wouldve been present througout the whole game based on the leaks. I know though that getting everything I want is pretty unlikley at this point though cause they moved the invasion to the movie and they need to add alot of cutscenes to Luna to make her an actually great character. I also want all the villains and side characters to get developed to like Cor Verstal Ideolas Loqi etc...

So what I want is a reboot of this game with all the content that is missing which I probably wont get. yes its possible to get all this content from Patches and DLC but like you said I shouldnt have too high expectations on this. I expect them to have like 20 minutes of new cutscenes tbh, when they need like 2 hours at least to explore all the character I said werent explored. And alot of areas that are missing. The Character DLC for the new areas might solve this but I dont like that you have to pay for it and I feel like they will be small areas and short DLC's. I want a full explorable Tenabre,Solhiem, Nifhiem and Insomnia. The Propto dlc may have a section of the snowy area of Niflhiem but I want to explore the city there. Tenabre is not happening, Solhiem is not happening, Insomnia is not happening most likley and Altissia will be a little more explorable with the Ignis DLC. And Gladios will be in a cave somewhere. One thing Im bummed out about is that there are only like 2 big cities and they really dropped the ball on that.

One thing I remember though is that Tabata originally said the game was going to be 50 hours for the main story and 200 hours for side quests, I wonder if they cut out 30 hours at the last strech of development for some reason. Because the average play time for the game is about 20 hours for the main story. Or if Tabata just didnt know how long the game was for some reason. If this is the case that extra 30 hours of Story content could be great if they added it in.

Everything you've said here makes sense. Heck at times I've felt the same way too. But I don't try to hold on to the "what ifs" too much and keep my expectations and hopes tempered.

The easiest scenario that could happen from what you wrote is including some stuff seen in the trailers in the game: like Noctis talking to Ignis in the car when Niflheim ships were flying overheard toward Insomnia, or Prompto and the guys screaming as they drove past the awakened Adamantoise.

Or Ignis talking about Luna to Noctis when he was driving on a dirt road at night.

That stuff should be easy to add into the game for sure since the footage was already shown in the trailers.

Luna replacing Stella is permanent. The only "solution" to this "problem" is more cutscenes and hopefully a past scenario showing Luna and Noctis as children.

The team are aware of Luna and other characters underrepresentation in the game. They are aware of missing explorable areas annoying players, and the chopped up story pissing people off (which I don't blame them for being angry about).

However it's good to be aware that the team can only do so much with the resources they have available on hand, how much time they have, and how much freedom they get in adding what they want.

Believe me, if the team could have, they would've done and included everything you said in the game in the first place.

It's their creation. Of course they want to be proud of it. But keep in mind what I just said above. They don't call the shots.

A little understanding for them, and enjoying the game for what it is now (because it's still a great game despite its flaws), while being hopeful but tempered for what's to come is the best and most healthy approach imo.

Not asking you to do a complete 180 here. Just saying perhaps have a little compassion and understanding for the team that didn't have the time available to complete their vision before release because of a damning corporate contract, who are also trying to make up for it in the coming months and 1-2 years.

Just give them a chance. If after all that they don't deliver, then, and only then, does it makes sense to hammer away at them (although I personally wouldn't since it's not in my nature to do so).

 

[llazy77]

Very true. I should've included that in the post. Funnily enough I did write that but then deleted it.

I gotta stop doing that lol.



It goes back and forth a lot.

Originally it was only 1, then it became a triology, and now it's back to 1 title.



The thing is, no one can be sure if the characters would've gotten good screen time, seeing as it's only a hypothetical scenario.


Again I have a feeling that you're trying too hard to hold on the "Nomura's vision".

You're trying too hard to come up with arguments that try to make Nomura the true saviour of the game, when in fact we have zero evidence that the game being developed under his direction would've turned out well.

A eurogamer article said when Tabata came in, the development team was demotivated, exhausted, and going nowhere.

That sentence alone should tell you all you need to know about the game's direction under Nomura.

Not hating on the guy, just saying it as it is.

You gotta let go and move forward man.

I know the team under Nomura was demotivated but I explained in a previous post that it wasent only Nomura that was to blame on this it was that squares mangment messed up when Versus XIII was in Development the mess up with XIV 1.0 really hurt and almost everyone was taken off versus XIII until it was rebooted in 2013. So with a little amount of people working on such an ambitious project that needs a large team feeling unmotivated is understandable but this was hardly Nomuras fault. The whole failure of bringing out Versus XIII was mostly due to square enix's mangement for the past 10 years.

Everything you've said here makes sense. Heck at times I've felt the same way too. But I don't try to hold on to the "what ifs" too much and keep my expectations and hopes tempered.

The easiest scenario that could happen from what you wrote is including some stuff seen in the trailers in the game: like Noctis talking to Ignis in the car when Niflheim ships were flying overheard toward Insomnia, or Prompto and the guys screaming as they drove past the awakened Adamantoise.

Or Ignis talking about Luna to Noctis when he was driving on a dirt road at night.

That stuff should be easy to add into the game for sure since the footage was already shown in the trailers.

Luna replacing Stella is permanent. The only "solution" to this "problem" is more cutscenes and hopefully a past scenario showing Luna and Noctis as children.

The team are aware of Luna and other characters underrepresentation in the game. They are aware of missing explorable areas annoying players, and the chopped up story pissing people off (which I don't blame them for being angry about).

However it's good to be aware that the team can only do so much with the resources they have available on hand, how much time they have, and how much freedom they get in adding what they want.

Believe me, if the team could have, they would've done and included everything you said in the game in the first place.

It's their creation. Of course they want to be proud of it. But keep in mind what I just said above. They don't call the shots.

A little understanding for them, and enjoying the game for what it is now (because it's still a great game despite its flaws), while being hopeful but tempered for what's to come is the best and most healthy approach imo.

Not asking you to do a complete 180 here. Just saying perhaps have a little compassion and understanding for the team that didn't have the time available to complete their vision before release because of a damning corporate contract, who are also trying to make up for it in the coming months and 1-2 years.

Just give them a chance. If after all that they don't deliver, then, and only then, does it makes sense to hammer away at them (although I personally wouldn't since it's not in my nature to do so).

I am giving them a chance, I still speak out over my disappointment over XV cause I have waited for it for so long and it hit me hard when it didnt live up to my expectations. I do understand the development though and the problems it went through. Square Enix management just messed up with this game and in the end it couldn't get completed and live up to its potential. I hope Tabata hears all this feedback and the patches fix some gripes I have.

 

[Hey Everyone]

Hey Everyone I'm new, I saw this Versus XV thread and decided to join in on the discussion, now I myself haven't played all of FFXV, I heard it's great or very good, just needs some story gaps to fill.

Now about this Versus XV, I could see it happening, but not as a singular release though, I remember Tetsuya Nomura said that FFXV was to have multiple direct sequels, and Tabata said that Kingslavie and Brotherhood was made to prevent that.
I also heard that according to rumors the purposed Versus XIII didn't have much faith from the higher ups due to being a more realistic than previous Final Fantasies, and even then they probably didn't know how well it would sell, considering how expensive was probably going to be Luminous Engine and everything. Now that FFXV seems to be selling very well for Square Enix. I could see them making a Versus XV trilogy(Mix(Rikku reference) Kingslaive, FFXV, and whatever original concepts of Versus XIII(Etro, eyes that see the passing of souls, maybe Stella(for all you Versus XIII fanboys out there), and turning that into a Trilogy or multiple games as Nomura intended along with adding stuff from XV like multiplayer. I mean if they are reusing assets from XV, maybe some cut stuff that is already made that could ensure profitability more than a completely new FFXVI would, honestly I don't see a FFXVI happening in a long time after FFXV like 2020 or something, and if it does happen it might have sequels, so do I think a Versus XV is happening? Maybe
I mean it sounds pretty profitable if it's a trilogy, has demand, and if the FFVII Remake does good that could also be a factor.

That being said I can see why it might not happen, it could cause the people who played FFXV in it's entirety to feel a bit burned, that a remake is happening so soon, but granted if it's a trilogy they might not be, because they pretty much have the complete story with a conclusion, and Versus XV could be seen as an alternate timeline like Earth-2 of Final Fantasy XV, with more FFXIII elements like Etro, Valhalla, and what not. I mean if FFXV sells close to 10 million or over 7 million then yeah I could see if it happening, but only if it's a trilogy, not as one game.

 

[llazy77]

Hey Everyone I'm new, I saw this Versus XV thread and decided to join in on the discussion, now I myself haven't played all of FFXV, I heard it's great or very good, just needs some story gaps to fill.

Now about this Versus XV, I could see it happening, but not as a singular release though, I remember Tetsuya Nomura said that FFXV was to have multiple direct sequels, and Tabata said that Kingslavie and Brotherhood was made to prevent that.
I also heard that according to rumors the purposed Versus XIII didn't have much faith from the higher ups due to being a more realistic than previous Final Fantasies, and even then they probably didn't know how well it would sell, considering how expensive was probably going to be Luminous Engine and everything. Now that FFXV seems to be selling very well for Square Enix. I could see them making a Versus XV trilogy(Mix(Rikku reference) Kingslaive, FFXV, and whatever original concepts of Versus XIII(Etro, eyes that see the passing of souls, maybe Stella(for all you Versus XIII fanboys out there), and turning that into a Trilogy or multiple games as Nomura intended along with adding stuff from XV like multiplayer. I mean if they are reusing assets from XV, maybe some cut stuff that is already made that could ensure profitability more than a completely new FFXVI would, honestly I don't see a FFXVI happening in a long time after FFXV like 2020 or something, and if it does happen it might have sequels, so do I think a Versus XV is happening? Maybe
I mean it sounds pretty profitable if it's a trilogy, has demand, and if the FFVII Remake does good that could also be a factor.

That being said I can see why it might not happen, it could cause the people who played FFXV in it's entirety to feel a bit burned, that a remake is happening so soon, but granted if it's a trilogy they might not be, because they pretty much have the complete story with a conclusion, and Versus XV could be seen as an alternate timeline like Earth-2 of Final Fantasy XV, with more FFXIII elements like Etro, Valhalla, and what not. I mean if FFXV sells close to 10 million or over 7 million then yeah I could see if it happening, but only if it's a trilogy, not as one game.

Final Fantasy Versus XV coming in 2020