Final Fantasy XV - Review Thread

[APZonerunner]

The straggler reviews are coming in - there's the likes of:

The Guardian ("I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed")
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/14/final-fantasy-xv-review?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The Telegraph ("Glimpses of brilliance, but tumultuous development tells")
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/what-to-play/final-fantasy-15-review/

And something more positive from Jim Sterling ("a lovely time that managed to make me like Final Fantasy again")
http://www.thejimquisition.com/final-fantasy-xv-review/

These are just a few, but the upshot is: the later publications checking in seem to be scoring lower, and on both Metacritic and Opencritic FF15 has now fallen to 82, below FF13's final score. Which... is a shame. But, the game is still good. It's a solid score.

 

[DrBretto]

I'll still feel like FFXIII probably has a few faith points there and should have been a bit lower than it is. And this is coming from someone who generally liked that game. Similarly, I feel like FFXV deserved most of its hits, but maybe not quite all of them, and should probably have ended up a couple of points higher.

But, that's subjectivity for ya

 

[APZonerunner]

imo I think they should both be lower than they are to the tune of about 5 points on average, but that's that.

 

[wmlk]

These are just a few, but the upshot is: the later publications checking in seem to be scoring lower, and on both Metacritic and Opencritic FF15 has now fallen to 82, below FF13's final score. Which... is a shame. But, the game is still good. It's a solid score.

I'm hearing this a lot. It feels like a lot of sugarcoating and pity.

 

[Guitar (pseudo)God]

I'm hearing this a lot. It feels like a lot of sugarcoating and pity.

Not quite sure what you mean here, but I thought it was a great game.

 

[wmlk]

Not quite sure what you mean here, but I thought it was a great game.

I mean I like it too (enjoying it more than XIII because this game has more than 0% freedom), but I've heard "it's still a good game, though" so many times now every time the score fluctuates.

 

[Guitar (pseudo)God]

I mean I like it too (enjoying much more than XIII because this game has more than 0% freedom), but I've heard "it's still a good game, though" so many times now every time the score fluctuates.

They're right! It is still a good game It's got flaws and annoyances galore. It's plain to see that it's incomplete with the entire back "half" (more like 1/3) of the game truncated. For me, what it does well -- it does *really* well.

 

[DrBretto]

They're right! It is still a good game It's got flaws and annoyances galore. It's plain to see that it's incomplete with the entire back "half" (more like 1/3) of the game truncated. For me, what it does well -- it does *really* well.

I mean, Cindy Crawford had a mole right on her face. She was still hot, though.

I couldn't think of someone more up to date, lol

 

[TwoDotsO]

I mean, Cindy Crawford had a mole right on her face. She was still hot, though.

I couldn't think of someone more up to date, lol

A mole is not an objective metric of ugliness. In fact, subjectively a lot of people find a mole to add to the attractiveness of a person.

A human analogy won't go well because it's either subjective or offensive. A proper analogy is a brand new sports car with lots of parts either unfinished or replaced by cheap parts in order to get the car out the factory in time. You can still like and love the car and think it's fine as is, but you won't argue with someone else when they point out that the car could've been perfect instead.

 

[DrBretto]

A mole is not an objective metric of ugliness. In fact, subjectively a lot of people find a mole to add to the attractiveness of a person.

A human analogy won't go well because it's either subjective or offensive. A proper analogy is a brand new sports car with lots of parts either unfinished or replaced by cheap parts in order to get the car out the factory in time. You can still like and love the car and think it's fine as is, but you won't argue with someone else when they point out that the car could've been perfect instead.

Who argued that it couldn't have been better?

You can also let people enjoy what they're enjoying without feeling some weird need to pont out that its not perfect at every possible opportunity.

Not everyone who says they're enjoying the game is arguing with you. In fact, they might not even be talking to you at all.

If you'd like to continue your analogy, though, it's more like damn, that sucks that your car didn't come with navigation like you thought. But, it's been a few weeks now, maybe it's time to stop moping about it in every conversation.

 

[APZonerunner]

It's a review thread. It's about criticism as much as it is praise. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc etc. Telling people just to stop discussing it (or, indeed, 'moping') isn't really additive to any conversation at all.

 

[DrBretto]

It's a review thread. It's about criticism as much as it is praise. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc etc. Telling people just to stop discussing it (or, indeed, 'moping') isn't really additive to any conversation at all.

Again, for the 500th time, I am not stopping anyone from expressing any opinions. That was actually my point, he can have his opinion without having to argue with anyone who disagrees. He has his opinion and can express it. Others have theirs. And they can be wildly different and still co-exist without have to assume the other person is just too dumb to see it their way.

The issue here is people who are upset about the game assuming anyone that doesn't share that disdain is somehow being an apologist or delusional fanboy.

It's not moping to write up an opinion and post it. It's moping to turn every discussion into an excuse to repeat yourself. And not fixating on the negative is not the same thing as ignoring faults.

 

[TwoDotsO]

You've told others in the past not to respond with strawman arguments. I suggest you take your own advice, mate. You're writing things and making arguments about things that aren't here.

AP is right. You're way too sensitive and defensive pretty much everywhere when it comes to criticism regarding the game. I'm sorry to tell you this, but people aren't going to stop pointing out negative things about the game because you can't handle reading about it. I suggest you to simple ignore them and move on.

 

[APZonerunner]

Again, for the 500th time, I am not stopping anyone from expressing any opinions. That was actually my point, he can have his opinion without having to argue with anyone who disagrees. He has his opinion and can express it. Others have theirs. And they can be wildly different and still co-exist without have to assume the other person is just too dumb to see it their way.

The issue here is people who are upset about the game assuming anyone that doesn't share that disdain is somehow being an apologist or delusional fanboy.

It's not moping to write up an opinion and post it. It's moping to turn every discussion into an excuse to repeat yourself. And not fixating on the negative is not the same thing as ignoring faults.

Well, as the person with the final say on Mognet, I'll note that people are indeed free to repeat themselves as much as they like as long as they're repeating themselves in a thoughtful, intelligent, properly expressed way. Repetition is just a staple of a hearty debate, because - to quote Muhammad Ali - "repetition of affirmations leads to belief." Never thought I'd quote Ali in that context, but there you go.

So if one person is making argument X and the other argument Y, there's going to be repetition, stressing, iteration - that's part of trying to persuade or simply explain your viewpoint to somebody else. There's been some very good debate on this board in general, and I enjoy that. When somebody called out my noting of "But it's a good game," at the end of a generally negative post and said it sounded like I was making excuses for the game, I thought that was a great post and it made me think. I haven't replied to it because I'm still thinking about it. This is the sort of debate I want and will encourage constantly.

All of this goes both ways, though. It's both people going: "Yeah, but it sucks" in one direction when people say positive things and equally people screaming "Well, like, that's just your OPINION" back in the other, and none of it is actual, you know, discussion. That's all. Currently within the FF community at large there's a solid spree of those who are too aggressive or too defensive in both directions and don't actually contribute much to conversations beyond "yeah, but" moments that don't amount to much. This is nothing new; we saw it with FF12 and 13 as well, for those who were active in the community back then. Certainly those with the UFFSite Veteran tags on here will remember it all. There has been some interesting discussion in this thread (and the sales thread, and the spoiler forum) though, don't get me wrong.

Anyway, @TwoDotsO @DrBretto, let's not get too far off the topic path here... it's about the scores, the performance, and yes, the debates I mentioned above.

 

[DrBretto]

I think the bigger issue, and this goes way beyond just this board, is that one side or the other keeps trying to convince the other side that their viewpoint is the better one.

You don't need to try to convince me to think the game is bad. I don't, and I'm not going to. If I was going to, I would have already. If I talk about something I like about it, it's not necessarily to form an argument. There's no middle ground to reach here. People value different things in games. There's no objective answer to it. For example, as mentioned a few posts back, I feel like the 82 underrates it a little bit, and you feel like the opposite. We're both intelligent people looking at the same thing. So how can that be? It's because we value different things.

It's been like this for every FF. That's why they're always so divisive every time any thread (and I mean ANY thread anywhere, even my sports forums have erupted in this) when someone asks the question: What is your favorite Final Fantasy and there's no pattern to the completely polarizing responses you get to it.

It is entirely possible for one person to think this game is great, while another thinks it's terrible and BOTH people are right. Anyone who is interested in seeing if they can get anything out of that is free to do so. Anyone who is not interested, or is not able to get over something else unrelated to see that one, they can do that as well. It doesn't have to be a battle to the death to prove whether the game is good or bad. It's not objectively anything.

 

[TwoDotsO]

None of the things you worry and argue about is actually happening. People are voicing opinions, agreeing and disagreeing with each other. Ergo, discussions are happening on a discussion board. It's a public forum, if you make a statement that I disagree with I will respond to it in a constructive and mature manner and voice my opinion on it. No need to make it personal. Every time someone post something negative, you do not respond to the content of their comment, but respond with telling them that they can take their criticism elsewhere, that they need to stop wanting to convince you or change your opinion, or any other arbitrary defensive statement. Ergo, straw mans.

Back on topic: I actually feel that XIII is deserving of a higher score. I like the characters, world and combat of XV more, but XIII actually feels like a complete and normally developed game, albeit not that great of a game, wile XV feels completely unfinished in way too many levels. I've just finished my second XV playthrough and I have to adjust my score of a solid 8 for it to a 7,5. When you actually take your time to take in everything and look at all the details while going through the whole game, you notice how often the game makes you scratch your head while thinking "what did I just miss". Not because you don't get something, but because you feel that you should've experienced that one way or the other.
I thought XIII had a weird story and many things about it weren't that great, but it was a finished game and the things I disliked about it were the things that were in the game. I disliked (or liked) design decisions. I could judge the game as is. Many things I dislike about XV are the things that they didn't implement at all or implemented in an obviously rushed manner. I can see that which it was trying to be and didn't succeed in being. It's decent as is, it's not a bad game, neither is XIII. But I think I'd rate XIII around a 7,8 while putting XV around 7,5.

 

[Jubileus]

Makes me wonder will Square re-release the "complete" edition for this game once all the DLC and extra story parts are added in?

Most games do that. Red Dead Redemption being one and the Witcher 3.

If so, will that re-release title have to go through another review round?

 

[Jubileus]

Did a bit of research into FFXIV 1.0 and 2.0.

Very interesting how that game turned a complete 180 to go from a train wreck to a very popular and revered FF title.

Call me optimistic but I feel that FFXV could be like this too. After all it's only been out for 2-3 weeks now, and after all th DLC and updates are done, it's going to be vastly different game compared to day 1 release version.

Review wise, I think the team over at square are reading and eating up all of the comments and criticism this game has atm, so they know exactly what to patch and how.

Must be a painful read for them, but like the situation for FFXIV, they're gonna work hard to regain that trust that a ff game can tell a great story again.

So in this sense... the reviews can be seen as a good thing?

 

[Lulcielid]

Makes me wonder will Square re-release the "complete" edition for this game once all the DLC and extra story parts are added in?

I don't know, FFXV without the crown update (7GB) was already 47GB, 3 GB away from the BD cap.

 

[Nova]

HDD tho