Final Fantasy Q&A

[Azuardo]

I have a question, but it's also a bit of an opinion question.
What is the Promised Land, exactly? I just finished FFVII, and throughout the game they never specifically state what the Promised Land is. I'll need to do some wiki-reading, but as far as I know it seems to be based on every individual person's own interpretation, sort of like a heaven? Previously I thought the Promised Land was in the Lifestream, but now I'm not so sure...

Each person has a different interpretation of what the "Promised Land" really is in FFVII.

For the Cetra/Ancients, it's simply a place they believed they go to when they die after their long journey of life. And that technically would end up being the Lifestream. So yes, you're right; the real interpretation of the Promised Land is actually the Lifestream.

But for the Shinra, they heard the legend of the Promised Land, and interpreted it as a place of an endless source of Mako energy, and therefore a place to build their "Neo Midgar." Like Omega mentions, when Shinra finds the Northern Crater and the Mako inside it, that's when they believe they've finally found the "Promised Land."

And for Sephiroth, the Northern Crater would be the Promised Land to him, too, since it is where he can absorb all his knowledge and power.

So people interpret it in different ways, just like a real centuries-old passed-down legend. But for the truth, it is just the Lifestream - the place the Cetra (and indeed all forms of life) would go to when they died.

 

[Azuardo]

Okay, that makes more sense. In the beginning of Advent Children the Turks are retrieving the box of Mako or cells, or whatever the heck that is (to this day I still don't know what that thing is). Is that still part of Shinra's wish to find the Promised Land, like you said would be the Northern Crater to them? That is the Northern Crater in the beginning of AC, right?

That is the Northern Crater, yes. Rufus sent his Turks to retrieve the remains of Jenova (its head, apparently, but we never see it; it was likely just some jumbled mess of remains), since he suspects a relation between it and the Geostigma disease. Nothing to do with the Promised Land at that point; I think everyone has realised the truth by then.

 

[Aether]

I believe the Japanese translation calls what's in the box "Jenova's neck". ShinRa by Advent Children is moving into a more ecological mode, much like the WRO to improve the broken companies image. Even though it was for the wrong reasons....

Spoiler

...but Rufus did bankroll the original AVALANCHE

 

[Azuardo]

Ew. I don't think AC ever made it explicitly clear, or if it did then it went completely over my head.
Aaaand another quick question. Kadaaj, Yazoo, and Loz, they appeared in the Northern Crater as Elena and Tseng were retrieving the remains and were created from...what, exactly? JENOVA cells, the memory of Sephiroth in the Lifestream, both? They actually show the three remnants attacking Elena and Tseng in ACC as if they'd just manifested, but once again if they explained it I definitely don't remember.

Had to do a little reading on that one, because I wasn't totally sure myself.

So, it seemed Sephiroth tried to create an avatar of himself by scouring his memories in the Lifestream, but couldn't because his memories were fragmented. So, he used the fragmented memories of his to create three remnants instead. They're Sephiroth's will, taking on a physical form, created in the Lifestream.

It seems Kadaj has a bit of a background story here:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_Lateral_Biography_Turks_-The_Kids_Are_Alright-

Looks like there's a lot of novellas for FFVII I've yet to read up on!

 

[Omegaflare]

Whats in the box are JENOVAs cells. Thats stated several times in Advent Children and thats why the three villains refer to the box as "Mother" so its pretty obvious whats in there.

At the point of the movie JENOVAs cells have also contaminated the lifestream, which is what caused the geostigma. Basically and thats what I really love about the movie, its made clear that Sephiroth was never really the villain, just a powerful puppet of JENOVA and she has always been the true villain, the very essence of death and enemy of all life. I believe that once she made it into the lifestream she was party able to control it and created Kadaj and his gang out of it.

Advent Children to me really is the ultimate and final war of life and death. The lifestream, the planet itself represented by Aerith as the planets avatar against death incarnate, JENOVA who seeks to destroy and consume all that Aerith represents. And since each of them dont have a physical presence anymore in the world they fight this war with "champions". Cloud (and as part of him also Zack) and his friends are Aeriths champions. Kadaj and the others are JENOVAS champions who are then replaced by the far more superior ultimate champion of death, Sephiroth.

I really like this parallel structure of the movie where you have Aerith and JENOVA each as the ultimate opposing force battling for the planets soul and then you have their champions on each side and it all plays out in a very parallel way. While Kadaj and co. are eventually bring about the rebirth of Sephiroth as JENOVAS true champion, Clouds friends (as well as the spirits of Aerith and Zack) bring about the "rebirth" or restoration of Aeriths champion - Cloud and Zack becoming one (the extende scenes in ACC make this even more clear when Zacks spirit is seen who is basically bonded to Clouds).

So the war between life and death, Aerith/planet/lifestream and JENOVA which began hundreds of years ago with JENOVA vs the Cetra (of which Aerith is also the last descendant and avatar) culminates in the moment when Cloud and Sephiroth clash one final time. In that moment it isnt really about them. They are just champions, instruments for the two most pure and powerful forces in the universe - finishing a war that began hundreds of years ago.

And I really love this whole concept, the whole arc that comes to that conclusion here and the parallel "rebirth" of both champions and how this culminates into a battle that is SO MUCH more than just Cloud vs Sephiroth. This battle is everything the entire saga has build towards from the moment JENOVA landed on the planet. And the whole battle and the music is so UNBELIVEVABLY epic and fitting. One of the most epic final clashes to a saga I have ever seen.

And if you look at FF VII with this scope you´ll experience the game or the movie in a whole new and much bigger and more epic way where everything is connected. Thats why FF VII as a whole, that universe to me is by far the most epic Final Fantasy universe there is. And thats where Advent Children was such an enormously epic and satisfying conclusion.

That moment when JENOVA is finally beaten in the end, the lifestream purified and healing those who are infected, purging that evil for good and when Aerith walks towards Zack who are both at peace now and Cloud finally allows himself to feel GOOD - you cant have a more perfect ending to everything that was built up from the backstory, Crisis Core, FF VII itself and the movie. Its just perfect. And it needs to end there and then.

 

[Azuardo]

@Sapientia I haven't yet, Sap. You'll have to remind me sometime this week and force me to, haha.

On the remnants: possibly. Haven't heard/read it anywhere, but you never know; might be mentioned in a novella. Or not lol.

@Omegaflare You've got it the wrong way around, I'm afraid. Sephiroth was the one in control of Jenova.

 

[Omegaflare]

No you are absolutely wrong about that Azuardo. JENOVA is the true villain, Sephiroth is her puppet. That to me the most clearest thing ever in FF VII. I vehemently reject any other claim. Just by the way Sephiroth talks about "mother" you can easily see that he is Darth Vader, she is Darth Sidious

 

[Azuardo]

No you are absolutely wrong about that Azuardo. JENOVA is the true villain, Sephiroth is her puppet. That to me the most clearest thing ever in FF VII. I vehemently reject any other claim. Just by the way Sephiroth talks about "mother" you can easily see that he is Darth Vader, she is Darth Sidious

What? It's the clearest thing that it's the opposite. Sephiroth uses his will to influence people injected with Jenova cells and takes control of Jenova's body. Hence it breaking out of the Shinra Building in the first place. Might need to replay that game again!

 

[Omegaflare]

You twist everything the wrong way. Sephiroth was slumbering in the northern crater, JENOVA was controlling a Sephiroth duplicate body and was the one who killed Aerith and was the one controlling the JENOVA cells within Cloud until he handed over the black materia to Sephiroth who was awakened by that.

And just listen to how Sephiroth talks about JENOVA. He is clearly serving her and not the other way around. He talks about her like a Sith Lord would talk about his master. You got it all wrong and YOU need to replay the game. I will not even discuss this nonsense and let you change and ruin my entire perception of the story and world of FF VII with such nonsense. JENOVA is the master, Sephiroth her champion and enforcer. End of story. Thats what makes the story of VII so great for me and what the whole strory from the moment JENOVA arrives on the planet is truly about. How the Cetra sacrifice themselves to beat her - from that moment on its already clear who is the true villain. Sephiroth controlling JENOVA is just ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever to me since he is clearly working to achieve HER goals and refers to her in a revering way like a servant refers about his master.

And with that this discussion is over for me. I will not let you ruin the great universe of FF VII for me.

 

[Azuardo]

Goodness me. I would have gladly given you some hard evidence just to help you understand your misinterpretations, but that is some extreme stubborness right there. I will not even bother helping you understand after that because there's clearly no getting through to you if you shut the door on everything without even bloody listening to what people have to say.

 

[Kagari]

Hey.

Hey.

Hey. Let's all get along, shall we? Omegaflare it would be cool if you could tone it down just a tad...

 

[Omegaflare]

Instant stagger is the key. You need to use Synthesis abilities that have the Random: instant chain ability. Like equipping two speed sashes. Also use Auto haste if possible and bravery. Try to use quick stagger weapons in combination with Random: instant chain. Speed really is the key. make your characters as fast as possible.

 

[Omegaflare]

Here is a good strategy:

1. use Sab/Sab/Sab to daze Cactuar (do NOT attack during this or the daze is gone, it works like sleep)

2. Buff with Syn/Syn/Syn until everyone has Faith and Bravery

3. Make a quick change to Med/Med/Med to heal everyone to the max

4. Go to Rav/Rav/Rav to stagger him as quick as possible

5. then to Com/Com/Com to finish him off in one round

You should have instant chain and quick stagger with everyone not just Lightning to make things easier.

 

[Omegaflare]

Thats because you use such good equipment, without the gold watch it would be even far less target time I suppose. But you five star Vercingetorix easily and have problem with Cactuar? Vercingetorix was the one that frustrated me the most. even with all ultimate weapons and fully maxed crystarium he still kept beating me. It wasnt until I exchanged Hope for Vanille (who for some reason is a far better healer and doesnt nearly struggle as much with keeping the party alive as Hope does) that i finally beat him. But what a pain. Even the Adamantoise was easier than that. I dont get how you can 5 star Vercingetorix easy as pie and then have trouble with Cactuar.

PS: I 5-starred all missions without ever using gold watch

 

[Omegaflare]

yeah everyone keeps saying "just poison him all the time" and that does help but his attack power becomes so ridiculously insane during the end of the battle. Thats when Hope just cant keep up with healing anymore while Vanille can.

Yeah as a general rule the AI always cures status ailments first before healing HP. So if anybody has a status ailment, it doesnt matter how high or low the HP are, the medic will always cure the ailments first. Which is why its a good idea to have a paradigm with 2 or even 3 Medics. the AI works with a very specific system and it doesnt deviate from that system, so knowing how to utilize it is key. For instance a synergist will ALWAYS cast haste first before anything else and so on. The way the AI acts during battle is never random.

 

[Omegaflare]

I always had the right paradigms and strategy, my problem always was that Vercingetorix would become so immensely powerful nearing the end of the battle and Hope was struggling to much with healing that basically I was completely forced into defense at all times with medics and sentinels and didnt even get around to refresh debuffs, buffs or attack anymore. And like I said that changed when I used Vanille as primary healer who kept the HP up much more easily then Hope did and then I was able to debuff and attack in the final stage of the battle as well and win the fight. To get the 5 star I had to take some risks though and not play it entirely safe to safe time. Worked out though with Vanille as healer.

Yeah debuffs are probably THE biggest key to victory with the tougher marks. always apply as many debuffs as possible to a boss before going on the attack while also keeping the own party buffed as much as possible. Thats why especially in the final stages of the mark hunting paradigms like SAB/SAB/SAB and SYN/SYN/SYN were part of my standard pack. really makes an enormous difference.

 

[Omegaflare]

yeah I talked to someone else about this on another forum. I dont find FF XIII to be an easy game at all. I find it much harder than XIII-2 or FF VIII - X (though X has the most insane superbosses by far). Even some of the regular bosses can be quite hard like the Barthendelus fight in Oerba or the final battle, when played for the first time.

I also dont get how some people can say "all you have to do is press X all the time to win". That maybe true in the beginning of the game but if I would only press X during the later stages of the game (and I am not even talking about post-story play yet) I would get annihilated by monsters. It is a shame that the full battle system is only available very late in the game but once you get to the Palamecia, there is no way you can just easily go through the game by just pressing X and not using paradigms wisely. Thats just bullshit. I´d like to see those who claim that to try.

And i´d love to see them tackle the high level marks or do the Titans Trials by "only pressing X all the time" and not use particular strategies, quick and specified paradigm shifts and proper preperation. That would be a fail of epic proportions.

I think the battle system of XIII (once fully available) is one of the most dynamic, challenging and demanding FF battle systems there is. One of the most strategic ones too. And its far beyond just simply "pressing X" all the time.

Besides X is also the button you press most in all other FF games. especially in the beginning stages. Its not really that different. I just find this whole criticism of the FF XIII battle system to be too easy and simple just ridiculous. The only gripe I have with it that they keep it so linear and restricted for such a long time but the whole paradigm shift system in itself is brilliant. And its one of the things that was almost universally praised by critics in 2010.

 

[Storm2356]

Hm, one thing that's bugged me for a bit is the crystals from Dissida and Dissida 012. They say that the crystals would grant power that even the gods can only dream of, and yet the crystals the Warriors of Cosmos can only get their crystals after taking a portion of Cosmos's power. I thought about the possibility that it would be the combination of Cosmos's power and a warrior's own innate abilities that would yield this great of a power, but I'm not so sure. Anybody know for sure?

 

[Omegaflare]

^This. I agree so much. "Pressing X" will not allow you to win. The game doesn't always pick the best options, and you definitely need to know your Paradigms to be good at this game, and defeat enemies without scrambling to heal yourself every five seconds. I definitely agree it took a little long to open up (Vile Peaks is when things should've started to really pick up if you ask me), but at least it does give you plenty of time to familiarize yourself with the system, a problem I had with FFXII near the beginning. I didn't know what on earth to do with the Gambits, for example.

yeah but it takes way too long just to familiarize yourself with it. They did a better job on that with XIII-2 or in IX and X where they explained it to you in the beginning and making it available to you in full within the first few hours without overwhelming you too much. For FF XIII, SE approached this in a way that suits the newcomers and casuals but doesnt really do any good for longtime fans. They tried to make XIII too much mainstream which is also evident in the linearity, the lack of freedom, exploration and different sidequests and most of all in its repetetive nature (its especially bad on the Palamecia, where its just one wave of enemies after another and almost feels like a shooter) - and these are also the things that I criticize the most in the game. But that being said FF XIII still is by no means a terrible game. And the battle system is definitely a highlight that was made even better and more fluid in the sequel. But maybe we are talking about that in the wrong thread^^

 

[Storm2356]

But maybe we are talking about that in the wrong thread^^

There's always my "Thoughts on the XIII games" thread.