Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

[Tornak]

In the demo you could attack by both pressing or holding down the attack button, this hasnt changed with the new manual weapon switching.

Yeah, but my doubt is: does it feel ok? As in, do you feel in charge of the attacks or is the feedback good? Or the fact that the attacks come in a chain (so to speak) is noticeable?

That's about my main worry regarding the combat system now, tbh. The rest look pretty good: if they get the important parts right, it could be a great combat system.

I can't wait for them to show a battle with the whole system implemented: the TGS tech demo looked very good already, as well as faster and more fun-looking than the more grounded and lacking in features Duscae one. Also, summons and magic: hopefully, the latter is a big part of the combat, as it should and seems to be.

 

[LeonBlade]

I don't know if that was the plan and Duscae's system was just a WIP in that regard or they decided to follow the original concept, but I'm happy.

Well, Nomura originally stated that they would be using a fully automated weapon switching system but then decided on using a manual mode where you could switch between weapons. This was around the announcement of FFXV in 2013 at E3 in some interviews following the announcement. After this, as we know, Tabata became the sole director on XV in Nomura's place. It's likely around this time when production started moving into transferring the game's systems from the Ebony engine into the Luminous engine that the changes to battle were made, namely creating a more fleshed out system as a whole. It was likely that they tried to create something that would be a mix of automatic and manual switching allowing for the feeling of switching between various weapons without having to chose them yourself but still allowing players to pick how the combo string would react. This ultimately was something that play testers [of the demo] didn't care for as many expressed just wanting to select the same weapon to multiple slots instead not really caring for having parts of their combo split between weapons. Ultimately this with other fans just wanting full control entirely led to the system we will be getting in the final version.

The feedback from the demo was very critical for various gameplay aspects of the game to really nail it down with what the fans wanted, and while many people will criticize TBT and the team for asking for feedback, it's very critical in development. Most people probably don't realize that you need feedback in development to make sure that things feel right. In the case of XV however, some people believe that asking for fan feedback is bad because it means the developers don't know what they want... that's simply not the case. Feedback isn't asking for people to dictate how the game should function, it's just asking for people's reactions.

Anyways, the reason why it matters so much for XV is because it's a game with many people's expectations on the line. Tabata isn't Nomura, and so getting feedback from the fans on what they have means getting to know what the fans that have been waiting all these years have to say as well as newcomers. Ultimately, I think it was the right decision, and we are getting manual switching in a way that sounds like it will feel really nice.

I just hope we're able to attack by pressing buttons rather than holding them

Yeah, but my doubt is: does it feel ok? As in, do you feel in charge of the attacks or is the feedback good? Or the fact that the attacks come in a chain (so to speak) is noticeable?

The thing with the combo chains is that you have a looping animation that plays for your attacks usually. However, unnoticed by plenty of people, in 2.0 update the ability to modify the combo string based on your directional input was being added, I don't remember if you could do them when you hold the button down or not.

 

[ConjureWolf]

This move is pretty interesting.

Since abilities were previously assigned to the D-Pad, and weapon switching is now on all 4 buttons, I highly suspect you will have to equip the specific weapon to use its ability. So for example you will have to select Zweihander to be able to use Tempest. This is a great move IMO, because it will be significantly easier for players to remember which button each ability is assigned to, because they will both associate it with a weapon AND switching weapons will occur so regularly the player will be more likely to remember by rote memorisation.

The more interesting question is how they're going to assign 5 weapons (as there were in the demo) to 4 buttons. It took me a little while, but I have one way they could do it. They would need one weapon assigned to a sort of 'default' or 'centre' position, in addition to the 4 assigned to buttons. To reselect that 'centre' weapon, the player would repress the button for whatever weapon was currently selected, more or less unequipping it to return to default.

I'm hoping the FFXV team realise they can do that rather than cutting the weapons from 5 to 4, or using a less intuitive system.

 

[LeonBlade]

The more interesting question is how they're going to assign 5 weapons (as there were in the demo) to 4 buttons. It took me a little while, but I have one way they could do it. They would need one weapon assigned to a sort of 'default' or 'centre' position, in addition to the 4 assigned to buttons. To reselect that 'centre' weapon, the player would repress the button for whatever weapon was currently selected, more or less unequipping it to return to default.

I don't think you'll have the 5th weapon. If you recall the actual weapon deck system which you can see here, you'll see as you mention the 5 weapons you have equipped.

The system that was replaced are for Crush, Ravage and Vanquish being your opener, main combo weapon and finisher weapons. Of course, this system is being replaced with a manual selection system of four weapons. So, in fact, you're actually getting one more weapon than you normally would. The two slots from the deck that aren't getting replaced are Counter and Descend which can both be overridden in the weapon slot system with a specific weapon like in Duscae, or alternatively you can chose to just use the current selected weapon for those actions; blank out the slot essentially to use the currently selected weapon.

Ultimately, this means you actually will have one additional weapon than before, not one less. The difference here is that you just don't manually select the weapons in your Counter and Descend slot as options during normal combat. However, there's no reason to really need this considering you couldn't normally do it unless you manually triggered them given that they were based on actual in game actions and not part of a combo string. You can manually trigger these weapons in the form of actions like you would in Duscae either by doing aerial combat or manually dodging into an attack or any of the other methods of activating counter weaopn.

I'm hoping the FFXV team realise they can do that rather than cutting the weapons from 5 to 4, or using a less intuitive system.

I think you will see now that the system is superior in every way!

 

[Lulcielid]

The more interesting question is how they're going to assign 5 weapons (as there were in the demo) to 4 buttons. It took me a little while, but I have one way they could do it. They would need one weapon assigned to a sort of 'default' or 'centre' position, in addition to the 4 assigned to buttons. To reselect that 'centre' weapon, the player would repress the button for whatever weapon was currently selected, more or less unequipping it to return to default.

I'm hoping the FFXV team realise they can do that rather than cutting the weapons from 5 to 4, or using a less intuitive system.

I think an easier solution would be implementing Devil May Cry 4 style switching system of Dante. In that game, Danta has a total 5 playstyle (Trickster, Royalguard, Gunslinger, Swordmaster and Dark Slayer), the first 4 styles are assigned to and specific button of the D-pad (1 style x Direction) but, how could you use the 5th style if there is only 4 directional buttons ? Just double press any on the directional buttons to change to Dark Slayer mode.

How could this translate to FFXV and what are the potential funtions ? :

1. You could assign more than 1 weapon in each directional button (i personally would prefer a max of 2 weapons, having 3 or more would requiere to many unnecesary moves to select the weapon you want).
2. If the above is right, you could have a total of 8 weapons.

 

[Bites the dust]

The more interesting question is how they're going to assign 5 weapons (as there were in the demo) to 4 buttons. It took me a little while, but I have one way they could do it. They would need one weapon assigned to a sort of 'default' or 'centre' position, in addition to the 4 assigned to buttons. To reselect that 'centre' weapon, the player would repress the button for whatever weapon was currently selected, more or less unequipping it to return to default.

I'm hoping the FFXV team realise they can do that rather than cutting the weapons from 5 to 4, or using a less intuitive system.

Well one of those 5 was the aerial slot. If they only had that slot for the aerial combat, and now can just bind the other four slots to the d-pad with aerial being regulated to what is already equipped, this makes it a simple and yet effective system. I think adding a fifth slot just for the sake of a fifth slot is not needed, especially since it would only complicate the weapon switching more than it needs.

 

[LeonBlade]

I think an easier solution would be implementing Devil May Cry 4 style switching system of Dante. In that game, Danta has a total 5 playstyle (Trickster, Royalguard, Gunslinger, Swordmaster and Dark Slayer), the first 4 styles are assigned to and specific button of the D-pad (1 style x Direction) but, how could you use the 5th style if there is only 4 directional buttons ? Just double press any on the directional buttons to change to Dark Slayer mode.

How could this translate to FFXV and what are the potential funtions ? :

1. You could assign more than 1 weapon in each directional button (i personally would prefer a max of 2 weapons, having 3 or more would requiere to many unnecesary moves to select the weapon you want).
2. If the above is right, you could have a total of 8 weapons.

We don't need this at all, the system already adds one more weapon than before (6 instead of 5).

Basically what happens is Tabata took the 3 weapons, added one more, made it so you could switch them out on the fly, and let you disable the other two slots in favor to use one of the actively selected forth weapons but also allowing you to just use a automatically assigned slot.

So, effectively, you have 6 weapons max now instead of 5.

 

[Crystal Power]

This may be a bit random but 'breaking news' nonetheless..

I don't even care about character switching anymore. I now know enough that gameplay and personality wise that Noctis is bae. <3 Ahahaha!

 

[ConjureWolf]

Of course, this system is being replaced with a manual selection system of four weapons. So, in fact, you're actually getting one more weapon than you normally would.

I don't think they will do that. Remember we've been told it will be optional to assign dedicated weapons to counter and aerial. If the system you're suggesting is what they use, it means only players who take that dedicated weapon option will have 6 weapons. Players who don't (where counter and aerial are performed by their currently selected weapon) will only get 4. That just isn't something the designers will consider. It would mean having an 'option' where one choice is objectively inferior to the other. Also consider how important weapons are in this game where equipping a weapon also gives the player access to an ability. So players who choose not to have dedicated weapons will have 2 fewer abilities as well.

If they had come out and said "counter and aerial will always have dedicated weapons', I would agree with your theory.

If the above is right, you could have a total of 8 weapons.

Double tapping a button would work too, I agree. It would be a little less instantaneous than the 5 weapon system, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't expect they'll go with an 8 weapon system though, I can imagine that being too complicated for players. The right balance of weapons would require play testing to work out though, so who knows?

If they really went crazy with the D-Pad, they could actually have 12 weapons. Arkham City managed that:

I think adding a fifth slot just for the sake of a fifth slot is not needed, especially since it would only complicate the weapon switching more than it needs.

True, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the option they end up taking. But I like the idea of 5 haha.

 

[LeonBlade]

I don't think they will do that.

The real-time weapon switching system allows you to switch between four preset main weapons. By assigning each weapon to one of the directional buttons on the D-pad, you can switch between them on the fly.
Based on these changes to the system, we have made it so the attack chain used in Episode Duscae (Crush → Ravage → Vanquish) is now executed with the main weapon.

The automatic weapon switching we originally planned has been changed due to the above. The individual setting of weapons to Crush, Ravage, and Vanquish seen in Episode Duscae will instead be incorporated into the weapon customization system.
Now, for attacks that players can perform at will, such as “Counter” and “Descend (Jump),” the main weapon will be used by default if nothing is preset. However, it is possible to set a weapon of your choice and switch between others automatically as was the case in the demo.

That is how it's going to work though, it's going to replace the original system entirely.

That just isn't something the designers will consider. It would mean having an 'option' where one choice is objectively inferior to the other.

Not really, abilities as they are aren't really all that important to use in combat. You also have to consider that they could easily rework how the abilities system works when equipping them. Regardless, having less abilities at the cost of more versatility in combat seems like an equal tradeoff to me. Even if you will still cap your ability usage, that's either one less ability or one more ability than before based on your selection, I don't see what it would matter that much. Just because you have one less ability at your disposal doesn't somehow mean you are going to do worse in combat. As it was in Duscae, I barely used abilities as it was. Abilities should be something used in moderation, so I don't think it will really matter ultimately if you have one less.

 

[ConjureWolf]

Abilities should be something used in moderation, so I don't think it will really matter ultimately if you have one less.

Two fewer, they would have 4 weapons instead of 6. I have to disagree with everything you've said there haha. Abilities didn't have the greatest importance in the demo, but I doubt that is indicative of the game (or their intention). Why would they design a feature that is intentionally unimportant? I can only imagine abilities are going to be one of the most important strategic elements of the combat, considering they are tied to weapons. You also need to remember that weapons level up when you use them, so a player with 2 fewer weapons would be levelling up 33% fewer weapons/abilities. I don't think that's close to an equal trade off to what is arguably less versatility (considering they have 2 fewer weapons/abilities).

And I don't think they could rework how abilities are equipped either, certainly not easily. To make it an active function would require them to dedicate at least one button to changing abilities (they could then use that function as a modifier, ala KH's L1 magic modifier). But as we know from the demo, every single button is in use except for L2 and R2, which will presumably be assigned to Magic and Gambit-equivalent functions. There are no buttons left for them to rework equipping abilities.

 

[Lulcielid]

I wonder how much % of the combat system will The Overture demo have ?

 

[LeonBlade]

Two fewer, they would have 4 weapons instead of 6.

I meant one less than what you have now. It's a +1 or -1 from what we had in the Duscae demo.

I have to disagree with everything you've said there haha.

That's fine.

And I don't think they could rework how abilities are equipped either, certainly not easily.

Explain how you would use the abilities for the two weapons that aren't assigned to the d-pad and maybe I would agree with you on that...

 

[ConjureWolf]

Explain how you would use the abilities for the two weapons that aren't assigned to the d-pad and maybe I would agree with you on that...

But having two additional weapons that aren't assigned to the D-Pad was your prediction. Remember you suggested that we're getting more weapons than the Duscae demo, because in addition to the D-Pad weapons there are two dedicated to counter/aerial?

I don't think they will do that. It would make the option to use dedicated counter/aerial significantly superior, and as you point out, there's no easy or intuitive way to select abilities not assigned to the D-Pad. I think those weapons dedicated to counter/aerial will still be on the D-Pad, and so will count in that 4 or 5 total.

They are in all likelihood going to cut a weapon from Duscae and end up with 4, all on the D-Pad. Or use a 'default' or hold function to have 5 (hopefully!).

 

[Lulcielid]

Melodiosa concert will feature music from Shimomura's upcoming score for FFXV and KHIII.
http://www.vgmonline.net/wayo-records-to-collaborate-with-yoko-shimomura-for-concert/

 

[Mediking]

Soooo... Final Fantasy XV....

I'm very excited for this game but I'm also very worried. The all guy party member isn't really a problem and actually has potential if Tabata does it right. It's just... ANY party member in a JRPG needs to be entertaining. It's just that simple. I also want Noctis to not be moody all the time but actually smile and laugh and be laid back. Basically... similar to Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach manga.

 

[Mediking]

Hmmmmm.... I don't think that wouldn't be a problem in regards to Noctis being moody. For him, he only shines when he's with his group of buddies (from what I saw from Episode Duscae) so there's still that ray of light shining. :3

Hahah well... sort've. There's a part in Episode Duscae where the fanservice car mechanic known as Cidney is talking with the guys in the car. Prompto and Gladiolus shined in that scene but Noctis and Ignis were kinda shoved aside. Since Noctis is pretty much tied with Luna, we won't even get to see the guy fluster around other women. And that's a shame because I love it when characters do that stuff... hence why I love Persona 3 and Persona 4 so much. Basically, I think Noctis can shine in moments by himself and moments where he's around other people. But the guy has to talk and interact or he's gonna be stale.

 

[LeonBlade]

But having two additional weapons that aren't assigned to the D-Pad was your prediction.

My prediction? No... Tabata literally said that's how it was going to work. Did you not read my official translation post? Tabata clearly stated that the four weapons would be assigned to the d-pad while the other two weapons are activated contextually.

Let me just reiterate this, it's not my prediction... it's straight from Tabata himself.

Remember you suggested that we're getting more weapons than the Duscae demo, because in addition to the D-Pad weapons there are two dedicated to counter/aerial?

Yes, Tabata said this, go back and read my quote from Tabata.

I don't think they will do that.

Uh... well...

[...]there's no easy or intuitive way to select abilities not assigned to the D-Pad

Yes, this is true.

I think those weapons dedicated to counter/aerial will still be on the D-Pad, and so will count in that 4 or 5 total.

You mean 6 in total. How would that work though, that was my question.

They are in all likelihood going to cut a weapon from Duscae and end up with 4, all on the D-Pad. Or use a 'default' or hold function to have 5 (hopefully!).

Tabata clearly said that the weapons would be mapped to the directions on the d-pad, so I don't think so... However, we will have to see how it works. This is really all we have to go on at this point.

These are the abilities for different weapons, if you are interested the abilities are as follows:

• ドレイン剣 Drain Sword
• 竜牙 Dragon Fang
• 螺旋突き Spiral Thrust
• ジャンプ Jump
• テンペスト Tempest

The icons for these weapons differed from the ones seen in Episode Duscae as well, so I'm wondering what that's about. Another interesting thing to note is the new abilities Dragon Fang and Spiral Thrust. Interestingly, the very first post in my thread here is actually my first translation from XV showing Noctis doing this very same move, pretty funny.

Anyways, as you can see, the way you activate abilities has obviously changed in some way we'll have to see how this will work in the future.

 

[Lulcielid]

Is this a new or old build of the UI ?

 

[Mediking]

Is this a new or old build of the UI ?

Its the new build of the UI.... I think. 80% sure. Lol