Leon, shut up already and admire gaming's best hand EVER
Truly a work of art.
Truly a work of art.
Likes:
Rin and LeonBlade
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It is newer than Episode Duscae, how new I'm not sure.
It's so beautiful I could cry...
On a separate note and somewhat related...
Here is a video that @Th3AustralianGam3r made taking the clips and other videos from the slides from CEDEC 2015 showing the animation from the Luminous Engine.
If you'd like to download the PDF for yourself you can here, most of the text is in Japanese. Please note that it is 200 MB or more in size and contains the videos. You'll need to download a program like Adobe Acrobat to view the videos, but if you aren't interested in reading the Japanese and or downloading the PDF you can simply watch the video as it only includes the videos and any slides with videos from the PDF.
Leon, shut up already and admire gaming's best hand EVER
Truly a work of art.
Truly a work of art.
On a separate note and somewhat related...
Here is a video that @Th3AustralianGam3r made taking the clips and other videos from the slides from CEDEC 2015 showing the animation from the Luminous Engine.
If you'd like to download the PDF for yourself you can here, most of the text is in Japanese. Please note that it is 200 MB or more in size and contains the videos. You'll need to download a program like Adobe Acrobat to view the videos, but if you aren't interested in reading the Japanese and or downloading the PDF you can simply watch the video as it only includes the videos and any slides with videos from the PDF.
Obviously it depends a lot on the translation, but no where have I seen it stated that those weapons dedicated to counter/aerial would be in ADDITION to the other four weapons. That is a major difference. Allowing players to choose an option where counter will always be performed by the same weapon does not mean that weapon isn't also one of the four on the D-Pad.
The point here is, there is no way the game will have an option where a player who chooses a certain option gets 2 extra weapons/abilities.
If they've changed the way abilities are selected that's definitely something I'm looking forward to finding more out about.
The point here is, there is no way the game will have an option where a player who chooses a certain option gets 2 extra weapons/abilities.
If they've changed the way abilities are selected that's definitely something I'm looking forward to finding more out about.
Here is an unofficial translation of these two parts as well.
I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore... yes, they are in addition to the four weapons...
That depends whether or not you have the weapon not set with a specific weapon and letting it use your main weapon. I don't see the point you're trying to make here...
Why not? You act as if the abilities are critical to combat, you must not have played the demo. The abilities are very situational as I already described. The only abilities I bothered to use in Episode Duscae was Drain Blade and Tempest and completely ignored the other ones because they're not really practical in most situations.
They LITERALLY have to change the way abilities are selected, it's not a matter of IF it's a matter of how. I agree though, I'm looking forward to it as well, we still have no idea what they're doing with this system.
Anyways, I think that's enough for now from me about this until we get more information. I hope you don't misinterpret my responses here by the way, I enjoyed the discussion, so don't think I'm trying to be rude or anything, it's just how I talk. Either one of us could be right or we could both be wrong.
Not really much of a debate.
I can't imagine it's final in any way, it's newer than Episode Duscae though, so it's very interesting.
I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore... yes, they are in addition to the four weapons...
That depends whether or not you have the weapon not set with a specific weapon and letting it use your main weapon. I don't see the point you're trying to make here...
Why not? You act as if the abilities are critical to combat, you must not have played the demo. The abilities are very situational as I already described. The only abilities I bothered to use in Episode Duscae was Drain Blade and Tempest and completely ignored the other ones because they're not really practical in most situations.
If they've changed the way abilities are selected that's definitely something I'm looking forward to finding more out about.
Anyways, I think that's enough for now from me about this until we get more information. I hope you don't misinterpret my responses here by the way, I enjoyed the discussion, so don't think I'm trying to be rude or anything, it's just how I talk. Either one of us could be right or we could both be wrong.
Not really much of a debate.
I can't imagine it's final in any way, it's newer than Episode Duscae though, so it's very interesting.
This might sound weird but I really want some side quests to focus on building character development. Like... Imagine if there was a humorous side quest chain of Noctis helping Prompto find a date. Or how about a quest of Noctis doing odd jobs that are really bizarre yet entertaining? These are the kind of side quests I want. Quests that really focus on making you smile about the characters yet can also be very serious.
Oh and do you guys think Noctis and Luna will be the next Kairi and Sora? I'm REALLY interested in seeing how Noctis and Luna behave around each other. I personally hope Noctis, like, stammers nervously around Luna and stares at her and totally trusts her judgment because he really likes her. I don't want their relationship to be awkward or stiff.
And more thing!!!
I would really like it, like, after Noctis does a mission or something... the game shifts to people talking to Luna. One of her friends can tease her and say, "So, what do you think of Noctis? HUH? HUH???". And Luna can be all shy or tsundere and say, "Its none of your business!!! I think he's a great guy now leave me alone!" Stuff like that can go a long way, in my opinion. Basically, I want Noctis and Luna's relationship to be incredibly genuine and sweet despite it being an "arranged" relationship.
And more thing!!!
I would really like it, like, after Noctis does a mission or something... the game shifts to people talking to Luna. One of her friends can tease her and say, "So, what do you think of Noctis? HUH? HUH???". And Luna can be all shy or tsundere and say, "Its none of your business!!! I think he's a great guy now leave me alone!" Stuff like that can go a long way, in my opinion. Basically, I want Noctis and Luna's relationship to be incredibly genuine and sweet despite it being an "arranged" relationship.
Likes:
Noctis_Caelum
Why not? Just because it's an arranged marriage doesn't mean they don't genuinely like each other. The little tidbits we've seen such as that image of them playing together as kids, that brief moment in a scene where they are holding hands as kids and running, and another brief scene where Noctis and Luna are talking to each other from a old FF XV trailer. I think they do like each other.
They are supposed to be romantically involved, but I don't think we will have such a grand focus on it though, Tabata mentioned that it wouldn't be a "typical love story" which is why I assume that it won't be that much of a focus.
Mainly, I don't think Luna will be a tsundere or some other anime cliché, but we have no idea about their relationship, so who knows. We will have to see where it goes.
Mainly, I don't think Luna will be a tsundere or some other anime cliché, but we have no idea about their relationship, so who knows. We will have to see where it goes.
Tip for Noctis and Luna: one of them will be dead by the end.
I'm also expecting betrayals.
Ok. I will just say, I have studied game design at university for years now, and I've actually ranked pretty high in my courses. I do know what I'm talking about here. I joined this forum (and chat) simply to throw out an idea on how they could approach this particular design issue, because it was interesting (getting 5 action functions on 4 buttons). Just trust me, you're wrong. There is no chance the game will give you the option of having 2 additional weapons. That is laughable for numerous reasons (I have mentioned), and no, those translations did not come close to confirming that they can be equipped 'in addition'.
Just stop for a moment and think about this. You're arguing that the game will give certain people extra weapons because abilities aren't important, because abilities weren't important in the demo, and that was intentional by design.
That is silly. Why would they intentionally design a major element of combat to be unimportant? And by extension, why would they make WEAPONS so relatively unimportant that certain players having 33% more of them wouldn't matter? This idea is based on two terrible pieces of design that no experienced developer would consider, plus a control scheme that doesn't make any sense. And you're basing all of these suppositions on an unfinished product.
Why would you assume all of that is true, when the other option (counter/aerial AREN'T equipped in addition), is simpler, fairer, CLOSER to the current system, and has no glaring logical dysfunctions?
Anyway, I think we've both said everything we can say. If you still disagree, ok, just wait and see.
I'm also expecting betrayals.
Ok. I will just say, I have studied game design at university for years now, and I've actually ranked pretty high in my courses. I do know what I'm talking about here. I joined this forum (and chat) simply to throw out an idea on how they could approach this particular design issue, because it was interesting (getting 5 action functions on 4 buttons). Just trust me, you're wrong. There is no chance the game will give you the option of having 2 additional weapons. That is laughable for numerous reasons (I have mentioned), and no, those translations did not come close to confirming that they can be equipped 'in addition'.
Just stop for a moment and think about this. You're arguing that the game will give certain people extra weapons because abilities aren't important, because abilities weren't important in the demo, and that was intentional by design.
That is silly. Why would they intentionally design a major element of combat to be unimportant? And by extension, why would they make WEAPONS so relatively unimportant that certain players having 33% more of them wouldn't matter? This idea is based on two terrible pieces of design that no experienced developer would consider, plus a control scheme that doesn't make any sense. And you're basing all of these suppositions on an unfinished product.
Why would you assume all of that is true, when the other option (counter/aerial AREN'T equipped in addition), is simpler, fairer, CLOSER to the current system, and has no glaring logical dysfunctions?
Anyway, I think we've both said everything we can say. If you still disagree, ok, just wait and see.
Is this your way of trying to show off? I don't see why this would somehow add to your credibility to form an opinion. If you expect me or anyone else to take this at face value and not criticize your opinions over it I think you might want to reconsider that idea. Also, why are you even bringing this up again? I thought
Having to press a d-pad button twice to trigger a default state is highly unintuitive. I understood completely what you were trying to suggest, I simply think it's a terrible idea. The idea being as you suggested having your four main weapons and then returning to a center default state by triggering off the weapon by pressing it twice. The problem with this is when you want to switch to your default weapon quickly, you either need to press another weapon twice really fast, or you need to recognize which weapon you are selecting and make sure to only press it once. The user is expecting instant reaction to their input, problem with this system is the amount of time it takes the player to process what they need to do to select their default weapon state and if a problem happens trying to select it.
There are plenty of games that use the d-pad to select weapons or other type of items. However, there is usually some form of UI or delay in this action which gives the user more time to process their input. XV's weapon switching needs to happen instantaneously in order to be fluid in combat.
For example, DMC4 had a system where you would switch into Dark Slayer Style with Virgil's abilities if you pressed the d-pad in the same direction twice as you suggest here. However, you are not doing this mid combat unless you are doing some things like Jump Canceling and other moves that most players don't take advantage of, and even if they do, it's something that takes time to master.
You shouldn't really need to switch to more than four weapons in any given combat situation in XV, you should either equip yourself with a well rounded set of weapons, or pick something that fits your play style. Weapons already have a multiple of things that set them apart from each other, so it's unlikely you'll need more than four in combat at your disposal at once.
I didn't know opinions could be wrong, but no, I won't "just trust you", I have no reason to believe your credentials, and even if I did it wouldn't change a thing.
It's not laughable, it's simply a choice you have. Considering there will be four weapons you select to your d-pad, then you have two more weapon slots to change... does that mean you have to chose one different weapon and one of the same? Or two weapons that are the same? That either means two things, one they are removing one weapon from the equip system (highly unlikely) to make it so you can only select four weapons and the two triggering attack types must be weapons you have selected for your main combo, or you can select one additional new weapon but your other slot (to keep it five as you suggest or how the Duscae demo had it with five slots) would need to be one of your existing weapons in this selection of weapons.
So, why bother adding a fourth weapon to your main combo selection set if it's just going to make the system more complicated (from your perspective)? You could say "well having four weapons is better than three" but then why only let the player select one new weapon for Aerial or Counter weapons then? Sure, you can have a fifth weapon for your Counter attack but no your Aerial has to be one of the five weapons you are already using? Why does that make any sense?
If you'd like to actually discuss this and not just say "I'm right you're wrong" feel free to respond to this point and I'll continue discussing it. However, I figured with my last message being a positive message trying to convey the idea that this was a lighthearted discussion with it being about opinions and you turn around and basically say "I've been to uni, I ranked high, oh and you're wrong".
No, that's not what I was arguing actually. My point was that abilities are something to be used sparingly and strategically, not spammed. Therefore, you really won't be utilizing them all the time in combat, but when the situation arises. Final Fantasy also has a history of having many things that are useless. Magic in most Final Fantasy games can be completely ignored in favor of raw strength, it's always been like this, however this has to do with the fact that turn based battles really don't offer any room for strategy when your combat system is as basic as FF's is.
XV on the other hand is an action RPG where your decisions in battle have more weight to them. If you look at Kingdom Hearts, most of your abilities are actually passive abilities which makes them more desirable to stack, at the cost of having no control over them or having percentage based triggers which make them useful but not critical for battle. As for abilities that you can use freely, they are limited in some way or another on how you can execute them, which reflects most any game having a large variety of skills and abilities but only so many buttons.
I don't think the abilities are unimportant, I simply think they are situational, which they are. Again, if you look at the abilities we saw from the demo you will see that abilities are something to be used when the situation arises. Even the abilities I didn't use often still have a purpose. One important thing to realize is that they take you out of the flow of combat completely to execute, and therefore leave you vulnerable for a strike unless they have some form of armor, and even then the animation time afterwards and bad positioning can screw you over. Abilities are useful, just not that useful, as they should be. Your abilities are your big attacks you use when you need them, not something you spam. Therefore, if you are limited slightly by the amount of abilities you use in combat, it's not the end of the world.
How does the control scheme not make any sense? I don't even know what you are referencing when you are saying this. If you were limited to four weapons you would just select your weapon and press the Ability button, but again I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.
Yes, I do disagree, I'd like to hear other people's opinions as well (from either side or a completely different viewpoint), but I don't think anyone else really cares to discuss the idea given that we don't really have a lot to go on at this point. If you honestly would like to continue this discussion, please feel free. Just know that no amount of uni or winkey faces will deter me from my viewpoint.
Having to press a d-pad button twice to trigger a default state is highly unintuitive. I understood completely what you were trying to suggest, I simply think it's a terrible idea. The idea being as you suggested having your four main weapons and then returning to a center default state by triggering off the weapon by pressing it twice. The problem with this is when you want to switch to your default weapon quickly, you either need to press another weapon twice really fast, or you need to recognize which weapon you are selecting and make sure to only press it once. The user is expecting instant reaction to their input, problem with this system is the amount of time it takes the player to process what they need to do to select their default weapon state and if a problem happens trying to select it.
There are plenty of games that use the d-pad to select weapons or other type of items. However, there is usually some form of UI or delay in this action which gives the user more time to process their input. XV's weapon switching needs to happen instantaneously in order to be fluid in combat.
For example, DMC4 had a system where you would switch into Dark Slayer Style with Virgil's abilities if you pressed the d-pad in the same direction twice as you suggest here. However, you are not doing this mid combat unless you are doing some things like Jump Canceling and other moves that most players don't take advantage of, and even if they do, it's something that takes time to master.
You shouldn't really need to switch to more than four weapons in any given combat situation in XV, you should either equip yourself with a well rounded set of weapons, or pick something that fits your play style. Weapons already have a multiple of things that set them apart from each other, so it's unlikely you'll need more than four in combat at your disposal at once.
I didn't know opinions could be wrong, but no, I won't "just trust you", I have no reason to believe your credentials, and even if I did it wouldn't change a thing.
It's not laughable, it's simply a choice you have. Considering there will be four weapons you select to your d-pad, then you have two more weapon slots to change... does that mean you have to chose one different weapon and one of the same? Or two weapons that are the same? That either means two things, one they are removing one weapon from the equip system (highly unlikely) to make it so you can only select four weapons and the two triggering attack types must be weapons you have selected for your main combo, or you can select one additional new weapon but your other slot (to keep it five as you suggest or how the Duscae demo had it with five slots) would need to be one of your existing weapons in this selection of weapons.
So, why bother adding a fourth weapon to your main combo selection set if it's just going to make the system more complicated (from your perspective)? You could say "well having four weapons is better than three" but then why only let the player select one new weapon for Aerial or Counter weapons then? Sure, you can have a fifth weapon for your Counter attack but no your Aerial has to be one of the five weapons you are already using? Why does that make any sense?
If you'd like to actually discuss this and not just say "I'm right you're wrong" feel free to respond to this point and I'll continue discussing it. However, I figured with my last message being a positive message trying to convey the idea that this was a lighthearted discussion with it being about opinions and you turn around and basically say "I've been to uni, I ranked high, oh and you're wrong".
No, that's not what I was arguing actually. My point was that abilities are something to be used sparingly and strategically, not spammed. Therefore, you really won't be utilizing them all the time in combat, but when the situation arises. Final Fantasy also has a history of having many things that are useless. Magic in most Final Fantasy games can be completely ignored in favor of raw strength, it's always been like this, however this has to do with the fact that turn based battles really don't offer any room for strategy when your combat system is as basic as FF's is.
XV on the other hand is an action RPG where your decisions in battle have more weight to them. If you look at Kingdom Hearts, most of your abilities are actually passive abilities which makes them more desirable to stack, at the cost of having no control over them or having percentage based triggers which make them useful but not critical for battle. As for abilities that you can use freely, they are limited in some way or another on how you can execute them, which reflects most any game having a large variety of skills and abilities but only so many buttons.
I don't think the abilities are unimportant, I simply think they are situational, which they are. Again, if you look at the abilities we saw from the demo you will see that abilities are something to be used when the situation arises. Even the abilities I didn't use often still have a purpose. One important thing to realize is that they take you out of the flow of combat completely to execute, and therefore leave you vulnerable for a strike unless they have some form of armor, and even then the animation time afterwards and bad positioning can screw you over. Abilities are useful, just not that useful, as they should be. Your abilities are your big attacks you use when you need them, not something you spam. Therefore, if you are limited slightly by the amount of abilities you use in combat, it's not the end of the world.
How does the control scheme not make any sense? I don't even know what you are referencing when you are saying this. If you were limited to four weapons you would just select your weapon and press the Ability button, but again I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.
Anyway, I think we've both said everything we can say. If you still disagree, ok, just wait and see.
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