The great Final Fantasy XVI Staff Debate: Who do you want?

[Nova_Somnus]

Is this even up for debate? Hiroyuki Ito by a wide fucking margin! I'm glad the poll results reflect this. Honestly, no other FF director still at Square Enix comes close.

• Yoshinori Kitase no longer directs, and even if he were to return to to directing now, he's been so tainted by Toriyama's style of directing (he produced all Toriyama's AAA games), that his game would be no different from anything Toriyama were to put out. The man has completely fallen off. How can you go from directing FF7 to producing FF13? How? Just... How? Kitase is a has been.
• Motomu Toriyama is Motomu Toriyama. Nothing more needs to be said.
• Naoki Yoshida is stuck on FF14 for at least a decade, and even then, he's competent at directing MMOs only.
• Hajime Tabata is average at best. The man is struggling to get FF15 off the ground with all the features Nomura promised (controllable airship, all party members playable, cutscenes by FF12 cutscene director, etc), and he is heavily relying on fan feedback to shape the game. Might I add that Type-0 HD is one of the worst designed and poorly written JRPGs I've ever played? Tabata is a lackluster director.
• New talent? No. I'd rather have an employee that has a stellar track record with the FF series that goes as far back as the NES days. Somebody that worked under Sakaguchi's authority as an apprentice when he was still directing FF games (FF1 - FF5).

It's really Hiroyuki Ito or bust at this point. However, I highly doubt Square Enix management are completely retarded and are wasting his talent by having him do nothing. They likely have him working on something really big behind closed doors. It really will be a monumental occasion for FF fans to finally find out what he's been working on all these years.

Spoiler

Please be FF16.

 

[Sora96]

Is this even up for debate? Hiroyuki Ito by a wide fucking margin! I'm glad the poll results reflect this. Honestly, no other FF director still at Square Enix comes close.

• Yoshinori Kitase no longer directs, and even if he were to return to to directing now, he's been so tainted by Toriyama's style of directing (he produced all Toriyama's AAA games), that his game would be no different from anything Toriyama were to put out. The man has completely fallen off. How can you go from directing FF7 to producing FF13? How? Just... How? Kitase is a has been.
• Motomu Toriyama is Motomu Toriyama. Nothing more needs to be said.
• Naoki Yoshida is stuck on FF14 for at least a decade, and even then, he's competent at directing MMOs only.
• Hajime Tabata is average at best. The man is struggling to get FF15 off the ground with all the features Nomura promised (controllable airship, all party members playable, cutscenes by FF12 cutscene director, etc), and he is heavily relying on fan feedback to shape the game. Might I add that Type-0 HD is one of the worst designed and poorly written JRPGs I've ever played? Tabata is a lackluster director.
• New talent? No. I'd rather have an employee that has a stellar track record with the FF series that goes as far back as the NES days. Somebody that worked under Sakaguchi's authority as an apprentice when he was still directing FF games (FF1 - FF5).

It's really Hiroyuki Ito or bust at this point. However, I highly doubt Square Enix management are completely retarded and are wasting his talent by having him do nothing. They likely have him working on something really big behind closed doors. It really will be a monumental occasion for FF fans to finally find out what he's been working on all these years.

Spoiler

Please be FF16.

So much hate, so much anger.

 

[Lulcielid]

Is this even up for debate? Hiroyuki Ito by a wide fucking margin! I'm glad the poll results reflect this. Honestly, no other FF director still at Square Enix comes close.

• Yoshinori Kitase no longer directs, and even if he were to return to to directing now, he's been so tainted by Toriyama's style of directing (he produced all Toriyama's AAA games), that his game would be no different from anything Toriyama were to put out. The man has completely fallen off. How can you go from directing FF7 to producing FF13? How? Just... How? Kitase is a has been.
• Motomu Toriyama is Motomu Toriyama. Nothing more needs to be said.
• Naoki Yoshida is stuck on FF14 for at least a decade, and even then, he's competent at directing MMOs only.
• Hajime Tabata is average at best. The man is struggling to get FF15 off the ground with all the features Nomura promised (controllable airship, all party members playable, cutscenes by FF12 cutscene director, etc), and he is heavily relying on fan feedback to shape the game. Might I add that Type-0 HD is one of the worst designed and poorly written JRPGs I've ever played? Tabata is a lackluster director.
• New talent? No. I'd rather have an employee that has a stellar track record with the FF series that goes as far back as the NES days. Somebody that worked under Sakaguchi's authority as an apprentice when he was still directing FF games (FF1 - FF5).

Your´re understimating them a lot:

1. Why producing Toriyama´s game dismisses what he´s archived as a director in other games ? What FFXIII turn out in the end is mostly a product of Toriyama´s direction and not Kitase´s.
2. While Motomu Toriyama is not exactly the best thing from SE, i don´t think that he´s incompeten neither that he can´t do good things.
3. While i can agree that he maybe stuck on FF14 for a long time, saying that he´s only competen at directing MMO is a big disservice to him, yes he´s worked on those type of games so far but the fact that he manage to rebuild a game from scratch (that was considered a regresive failure in the genre) and turn it into a big sucess, priced by the community and making SE from losing money to gaining, speaks volumes about his competency at directing a game, his feat is by far beyond what any person acomplished in Square´s history imo.
4. The only thing that Tabata is struggling with is implementing playable party member (the rest he´s doing fine), struggling would actually be he not being able to get FF15 on shape, which i clearly see not happening right now. Despite Type-0 not being the best design game he balances it with Crisis Core.
5. Lastly track records are misleading and don´t set on stone the quality of a product, is like saying because George Lucas did a good job as a director/writer in A New Hope the same should have happened with Phantom Menace. Both Ito and Kitase never directed a game before their debut in FF6 but still manage to do things right as well as when they alone directed their own games, Kitase(7,8) and Ito(9,12).

 

[BladeRunner]

I'm having a déjà vu.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

The fact that have a nobody writing the script for FF15 tells me that Square Enix don't see the game as their saviour. I already assumed as much when they put Tabata on it as director and made the staff mainly comprise of the Type-0 team. Square Enix must have FF16 already in dev with a staff list that comprises way more talented staff than those working on FF15.

At this point, I just want FF15 to release ASAP so mainline FF can move on from the entire Fabula Nova Crystallis clusterfucking shitfest. It's very comforting to know Ito hasn't worked on any FF since FF12, as that means he's not tainted by Foula Shiter Crapalis series. The fact he's also not on FF14 means he won't be tied to a MMO for a decade, either. The man is free, so must be helming FF16 at this point.

 

[Lulcielid]

The fact that have a nobody writing the script for FF15 tells me that Square Enix don't see the game as their saviour. I already assumed as much when they put Tabata on it as director and made the staff mainly comprise of the Type-0 team. Square Enix must have FF16 already in dev with a staff list that comprises way more talented staff than those working on FF15.

When Sakaguchi wrote the script of FF1 back in 1987 he was a nobody, but it didn't it prevent the game from archiving sucess and being considerred a quality game
FFXV team also has KH staff as part of the dev team.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

When Sakaguchi wrote the script of FF1 back in 1987 he was a nobody, but it didn't it prevent the game from archiving sucess and being considerred a quality game
FFXV team also has KH staff as part of the dev team.

FF was a new IP back then and video game writing was so primitive in scope that a hack writer could win a GOTY award for screenplay for a script that was only four A4 pages in length. The industry is completely different now. The scripts are much more detailed. The writers for big, AAA titles should be the best the game industry can provide, or the best from other mediums (film, book, theatre). Not some nobody that wrote the complete shitfest of Dissidia 012 and nothing else. Seriously, does anybody even have any hope for this game's story now? It has "This will be shitter than FF13" written all over it.

Also, KH staff? Kingdom Hearts has the most convoluted, nonsensical, and outright garbage writing ever seen in RPG gaming. If it wasn't for the Disney characters to attract the masses, the IP would not have lasted this long. Far better Square Enix IPs with better writing than any KH game have all never reached the same success due to the strength of the Disney brand making KH sell. Games such as The Last Remnant, Drakengard series (including Nier), and Valkyrie Profile series, are all better written than any KH.

 

[Lulcielid]

(...)Not some nobody that wrote the complete shitfest of Dissidia 012 and nothing else. Seriously, does anybody even have any hope for this game's story now? It has "This will be shitter than FF13" written all over it.

Why the writing in Dissidia 012 dismiss her possibility of pulling out a great writing? (she still has Nojima's already written script, its not like she is writing a new one from scratch).
Track records are misleading, for example:
Despite having George Lucas as director/writer the Phantom Menace didn't archive the same quality that A New Hope did (which happens to have him in both roles too)

Also, KH staff? Kingdom Hearts has the most convoluted, nonsensical, and outright garbage writing ever seen in RPG gaming. If it wasn't for the Disney characters to attract the masses, the IP would not have lasted this long. Far better Square Enix IPs with better writing than any KH game have all never reached the same success due to the strength of the Disney brand making KH sell. Games such as The Last Remnant, Drakengard series (including Nier), and Valkyrie Profile series, are all better written than any KH.

Of the games you named only The Last Remnant is a SE IP, the other are IPs from other developers that SE simply published

 

[Nova_Somnus]

Why the writing in Dissidia 012 dismiss her possibility of pulling out a great writing? (she still has Nojima's already written script, its not like she is writing a new one from scratch).
Track records are misleading, for example:
Despite having George Lucas as director/writer the Phantom Menace didn't archive the same quality that A New Hope did (which happens to have him in both roles too)

Nojima is very hit or miss, though. Sometimes he writes great stuff, but most times he writes nonsensical garbage. It was Jun Akiyama that was my main hope for FF15 in the writing department, but he's also jumped ship. There's honestly no hope for me in this game's story at all. I fully expect it to be as bad as Dissidia 012 and Type-0 HD.

Yeah, George Lucas fell off. However, the same thing happened with Yoshinori Kitase. Homie went from directing FF7 to producing the steaming pile that is FF13 trilogy. That being said, a mainline FF in this stage of the gaming industry, should have the best of the best writing the screenplay. Not an untested writer that has only written utter garbage for one game and nothing else.

Of the games you named only The Last Remnant is a SE IP, the other are IPs from other developers that SE simply published

Actually, brah, Square Enix own those IPs, but the actual games were developed by other companies.

 

[Lulcielid]

@Nova_Somnus please answer me these: why Kitase producing FXIII = him falling off ? The quality of XIII is more a blame of the director rather than the producer.

Also Jun Akiyama also worked on KH (which according to you has garbage writing), as well as FFXIII and the original FFXIV, so he must also fell off.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

@Nova_Somnus please answer me these: why Kitase producing FXIII = him falling off ? The quality of XIII is more a blame of the director rather than the producer.

Kitase did the game design for FF13. It was his idea to make the game so linear, as he was basing it off his game design in FF10. Toriyama just directed under Kitase's supervision. The fact Kitase was so intimately involved with project on a producer level should have ensured the game was a success, but his current incompetence proved otherwise. The man is a has been, just like George Lucas.

Also Jun Akiyama also worked on KH (which according to you has garbage writing), as well as FFXIII and the original FFXIV, so he must also fell off.

Jun Akiyama only wrote the first KH (with Nojima and Watanabe), which has the best and most coherent writing in the entire series. It's from KH CoM onwards that the plot became increasingly convoluted and nonsensical. Also, Akiyama never did any writing for FF13 or FF14, but he did do writing for FF12, which has the most mature plot so far in the FF series. Added to that, his expertise in cinematography is on par with an Academy Award-winning film director. No other cutscene director in Square Enix comes close. A great cutscene director can turn an incomplete script into a masterpiece of cinematography, as FF12 proved. FF15 will not experience that because it has lost Akiyama. All it has left is the Dissidia 012 writer to salvage it. The game is dead on arrival from a storytelling standpoint.

 

[Lulcielid]

Still track records do not set things on stone.
According to your logic of track records, Kitase producing FFXIII should have made the game good because of what he did with FFVI,VII back then but it did not happen. If this could happen to Kitase then it stands to reason that this can also happen to Ito and Jun Akiyama, as well as the reverse can happen with Saori Itamuro.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

Still track records do not set things on stone.
According to your logic of track records, Kitase producing FFXIII should have made the game good because of what he did with FFVI,VII back then but it did not happen. If this could happen to Kitase then it stands to reason that this can also happen to Ito and Jun Akiyama, as well as the reverse can happen with Saori Itamuro.

Well, for me personally, Kitase's track record has been garbage since FF8. The last good FF he worked on was FF7, so I was prepared for FF13 ending up being a steaming pile of shit. The same is now happening with Tabata. His work on Type-0 was horrendous and a true clusterfuck of bad game design and bad writing. This is the man directing FF15? Welp. I now know not to expect much from the game. I fully expect the game to be just as bad or even worse than FF13 was, especially with the Dissidia 012 writer penning the screenplay.

Ito and Akiyama are different because in their respective fields (game director and cutscene director), they've yet to fail and their recent works are fantastic. The last game Ito directed was FF12, a modern masterpiece in JRPG game design that Xenoblade used as a blueprint to go on and become the best console JRPG last-gen. The last cutscene Akiyama directed was the Ul'dah intro for FFXIV 1.0, which is hands down better than any cutscene to appear in a FF game since FF12. No cutscene in the entire FF13 trilogy touches it. Even FF14 ARR doesn't have a cutscene as well directed and with such ornate cinematography. If Jun Akiyama was a film director, his films would have won Oscars by now.

Here's the FF14 1.0 Ul'dah intro, if you don't know what I'm talking about:

 

[Lulcielid]

Even they still have to fail in their respective roles, my argument still holds true.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

Even they still have to fail in their respective roles, my argument still holds true.

No it doesn't. My point was that Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail.

Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro have all failed in the past in their respective fields (producing, directing, and writing), so expecting good from them in future in those same fields is leaning more on wishful thinking. Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail in their respective fields of directing and cutscene directing. Therefore, expecting great things from those two in future is more a calculated belief rather than blind, wishful thinking.

 

[Lulcielid]

No it doesn't. My point was that Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail.

Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro have all failed in the past in their respective fields (producing, directing, and writing), so expecting good from them in future in those same fields is leaning more on wishful thinking. Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail in their respective fields of directing and cutscene directing. Therefore, expecting great things from those two in future is more a calculated belief rather than blind, wishful thinking.

Naoki Yoshida disagrees with what you said.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

Naoki Yoshida disagrees with what you said.

Nah, brah, it actually supports it. Naoki Yoshida was the game designer of Dragon Quest X, which was very successful with no major faults when it launched. He also had no bad track record before taking over FF14. On the contrary, the reason he was put on the game is because Yoichi Wada said he had the most in-depth knowledge of the MMO genre at Square Enix. He was the best guy they had for the job. The case with Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro is completely different.

 

[Lulcielid]

Nah, brah, it actually supports it. Naoki Yoshida was the game designer of Dragon Quest X, which was very successful with no major faults when it launched. He also had no bad track record before taking over FF14. On the contrary, the reason he was put on the game is because Yoichi Wada said he had the most in-depth knowledge of the MMO genre at Square Enix. He was the best guy they had for the job. The case with Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro is completely different.

But FFXIV 1.0 still failed despite that.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

But FFXIV 1.0 still failed despite that.

Despite what? Naoki Yoshida never worked on FF14 1.0, brah. He produced and directed FF14 ARR, which is very successful.

 

[Nova_Somnus]

Naoki Yoshida: "FF15 won't be enough to restore FF to greatness. Wait for FF16."

Damn, brah! Stone cold words. As if my pessimism over FF15 and its lacklustre director couldn't sink any lower, Naoki Yoshida comes out and says this? I'm glad that I've not had much riding on the game since Tabata took over. Even Yoshida knows that FF15 is not the game to save the FF series.

“I think we still have a long way to go. The Final Fantasy that I know was even better,” he says. “Final Fantasy XIV is not a standalone Final Fantasy title; it’s an MMO. Unfortunately some fans will remain on the fence about it because it’s online, so we can’t reach all of them.

“Of course, with XV coming out as a standalone title, that’s very important. But it’s not only XV - we need to be able to do more and bring back that impact that Final Fantasy gave us when we ourselves played it for the first time. That shock – the good kind of shock – and try to bring that back. Maybe we won’t do that before Final Fantasy XVI. Maybe it’ll be even further in the future. But I still feel we need to continue to strive to improve... There’s a long road ahead."

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/06/05/meet-the-man-who-redeemed-final-fantasy?page=2

If any random person said this about FF15, they'd be laughed at and told that FF15 is the most ambitious FF of all time and Square Enix have a lot riding on it. Yet, this is Yoshi-P is saying this. The man that revived FF14 into one of the best MMOs released since WoW. Not to forget that he's also on the FF Committee and a Corporate Executive at Square Enix Japan. If he says shit like this then you have got to take his words seriously.

By the sounds of it, FF16 is already in development and it's that game being designed to restore mainline FF to greatness, not Tabata's FF15. Seems that FF15 is only being used as a filler in the interim, which makes sense why Square Enix management put such a lacklustre director and the inexperienced Type-0 team on it. Now, more than ever before, I'm starting to believe Jun Akiyama has been moved to FF16. If that game is their true trump card, they'll want to have their best cutscene director working on it. As for who'll be directing the game, you already know my answer to that question.