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I don't want to go as far as to say bad guy, but it does look like he's had to do bad things for what he thinks is the greater good at least.
I'm wondering if that's part of the theme, here. Sacrifices someone of that stature needs to make, and how to maintain some degree of humanity in the process.
I'm wondering if that's part of the theme, here. Sacrifices someone of that stature needs to make, and how to maintain some degree of humanity in the process.
I think I understand what happened in this kkkkk trailer.
white dog is luna, noctis is looking for luna at all times,until the end when he kills she with trident. he realizes he was duped and influenced to do so.
there appears the black dog. in the flashback he realizes that he was black dog that was taking him to that path to assassinate Luna. I'm pretty sure it's Ardyn izunia.
ja with regis king he talks with the authority about what noctis should do in the future (which is murder luna the oracle), must be some debt from the past that he has to pay for the entity.
obs: I think the black dog is Ardyn izunia why in the trailer "Omen" goes on, we see that noctis will lose his powers and turning a normal person.
the trailer tgs 2016 at the beginning already shows noctis trapped in a crystal and Ardyn speaking to kill him as a mortal will bring the minimum satisfaction.
what do you think?
will be Ardyn izunia will entity? or representative of the entity?
I'm sorry for the typos. I am Brazilian and I am not very good at English but would like to participate kkk
white dog is luna, noctis is looking for luna at all times,until the end when he kills she with trident. he realizes he was duped and influenced to do so.
there appears the black dog. in the flashback he realizes that he was black dog that was taking him to that path to assassinate Luna. I'm pretty sure it's Ardyn izunia.
ja with regis king he talks with the authority about what noctis should do in the future (which is murder luna the oracle), must be some debt from the past that he has to pay for the entity.
obs: I think the black dog is Ardyn izunia why in the trailer "Omen" goes on, we see that noctis will lose his powers and turning a normal person.
the trailer tgs 2016 at the beginning already shows noctis trapped in a crystal and Ardyn speaking to kill him as a mortal will bring the minimum satisfaction.
what do you think?
will be Ardyn izunia will entity? or representative of the entity?
I'm sorry for the typos. I am Brazilian and I am not very good at English but would like to participate kkk
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Storm
Dude, I totally get you. It brings up so many questions.
What IS he seeking forgiveness for in the first place? What's the bad thing, AND what's it all for?
Kingsglaive brought up a similar question. Mainly, why was Regis willing to sacrifice his own kingdom to save his kid. And it's not just some "a father will do anything for his son" crap, either. There's clearly a bigger issue at hand here.
Mix in the dawn trailer, and I have wonder if the crying is because he feels guilty for being responsible for whatever Noctis' future holds.
What IS he seeking forgiveness for in the first place? What's the bad thing, AND what's it all for?
Kingsglaive brought up a similar question. Mainly, why was Regis willing to sacrifice his own kingdom to save his kid. And it's not just some "a father will do anything for his son" crap, either. There's clearly a bigger issue at hand here.
Mix in the dawn trailer, and I have wonder if the crying is because he feels guilty for being responsible for whatever Noctis' future holds.
Never noticed the job offering post.
http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/10...-teasing-new-game-team-made-final-fantasy-xv/
http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/10...-teasing-new-game-team-made-final-fantasy-xv/
I found a very interesting observation about the warping effects in Kingsglaive and the Omen trailer (read only if you've seen Kingsglaive): https://adrastia.tumblr.com/post/152502054674/look-at-the-warping-sparkles-while-king-regis-is
Reposting my thoughts from Tumblr here, in hopes of sparking a discussion about some of the more speculative bits:
1) FFXV’s trend of highlighting Noct’s vulnerability clearly remains in full effect in the Omen trailer. In this case, though, there’s a conscious effort to show him being stripped – most obviously of his clothes, but also his powers and his mind. Without his friends, the trailer seems to say, Noct is easy prey for the black dog.
2) The black dog is not Umbra – Umbra appears as Pryna’s reflection, likely represents Noct, and looks different from the black dog. Rather, the black dog is likely meant to be taken as a hellhound; it clearly reflects some of the requisite mythological baggage. The black dog has glowing red eyes, it’s a herald of death, and it’s shown three times in Pryna’s place (some of the hellhound myths say that it takes three sightings for its curse to take effect).
Character-wise, I suspect that the black dog represents Ardyn, who’s already been shown to be a false ally turned traitor and whose black wing-cape-thingy aligns him with FFXV’s take on Reapers. As such, it seems like the dynamic in the game will have to be different – Noct’s friends can keep him from being led astray unknowingly.
3) While Noct’s friends clearly change the underlying dynamic, I don’t think we’re meant to see the events of the Omen trailer as wholly hypothetical. There are a number of references to scenes we know are going to happen in the game, after all – the invasion of Altissia, most obviously, but also the fights at the train station and in the Niflheim base, and the way Noct’s trip takes him through the Coernix gas station.
As such, I suspect that the fights that we haven’t seen in previous trailers will likewise appear, if in a different form. There’s nothing particularly unbelievable about Noct and co. facing off against a Behemoth in a palace or Niflheim soldiers on a railway bridge, after all. Fighting Luna would be the most questionable if it weren’t the very thing that we’re supposed to be trying to prevent. Changing fate always happens at the eleventh hour in fiction, regardless of any and all previous attempts; if keeping Noct from falling to madness and killing Luna is the goal, then it has to happen during that fight.
(It’s worth noting that Amy Shiels, Luna’s VA, said that there were a ton of action sequences towards the end of recording, which is consistent with this prediction.)
4) Of course, if the dynamic is different, there’s gotta be a reason for the climactic event to take place anyway. And, in this case, I think that reason has already been hinted – if Ardyn can’t lead Noct astray unknowingly, he can always just imprison him in the Crystal and torture him into it.
This is where things seem to give off heavy Avatar vibes. Ardyn needs Noct to become the True King to consider Noct’s death satisfying, which reminds me of nothing quite so much as Zaheer’s plot to kill Korra in the Avatar State. We don’t know what Noct’s “True King” form looks like, but the uncontrollable daemonic-looking version of Noct that killed Luna in the vision certainly seems like it could fit the bill.
Unlike the Avatar State, the daemonic-looking version of Noct appears to be a being of darkness and chaos rather than of light and harmony. But if some of the underlying FNC mythos has stuck around, that… actually sort of makes sense? Chaos in FNC is what gives humans free will, and thus the ability to fight their fate. It’s entirely plausible that a properly-controlled being powered by Chaos could be required to deal with the Plague of the Stars in place of the gods. (Or maybe the King of Light functions as a sin eater, taking chaos upon himself to remove it from the world? A lot of people die in the XV canon, and that'd mean a lot of free chaos by FNC rules. And there could be an association between light and chaos, given Noct's ability to see the "light of expiring souls.") Of course, without proper control, such a being would just be a monster, and without proper context, it’d be easy to think that vanquishing the “True King” and the Chaos it represents would restore the world’s balance as opposed to ensuring its doom.
“There’s nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” Perhaps this is what that means – the “evil” powers that cause Noct and Luna so much pain in the vision can actually be used for good, given the proper mindset.
4a) If the “True King” is Noct’s Superpowered Evil Side, what if he’s the one to blind Ignis and scar Gladio, and that’s the reason why Gladio is so upset at him in the train?
4b) It’s a rather odd coincidence that the tree Noct sees the false Pryna under and ends up fighting Luna near looks rather like the Tree of Time from Legend of Korra, given the other similarities. XD;
5) If the vision is what we’re trying to prevent, it’d be awfully strange for Noct to outright fail to do so. However, the ESRB synopsis references scenes that sound like a perfect analog for what we saw in the Omen trailer: “one cutscene involves a woman being stabbed off-screen; another scene depicts a character with a bloodstained wound.”
One explanation, of course, is that the vision – or, at least, the portions involving Noct and Luna’s fight – is actually reproduced in the game. If the game is actually building up to a final confrontation that will determine whether or not the vision will be averted, it’d be awfully strange to leave that vision out of the game itself. Maybe Noct has nightmares about it, or he sees it when an Astral is messing with his head. If that’s the case, the ESRB synopsis really doesn’t predict anything.
The other option is that Noct actually does stab Luna, but things change after that because his friends are there. She wouldn’t even need to die, necessarily; Prompto and Gladio could hold Noct off while Ignis keeps her from bleeding out.
6) I’ve seen a lot of talk about how the Omen trailer basically proves that the Ring of the Lucii is a bad, bad thing, but Noct doesn’t actually wear it at any point in the trailer. That he does get it in the game is a point of differentiation, not a step down the dark path shown in the trailer.
7) The trailer obviously wants us to assume that the one death that the voice speaking to Regis is looking forward to is Luna’s, but that seems almost too obvious. Besides, whether the voice is the Crystal or one of the Lucii, it’s unclear why Luna’s death would allow it to rest. I’m more inclined to think that it’s looking forward to Noct’s death, probably to put an end to the line of Lucis and free the past kings from their duty.
Regis, of course, can’t let that happen for a number of reasons. And so, he chooses to defy fate at Insomnia’s expense, asks forgiveness from the gods for the carnage he knows will ensue, and walks knowingly to his death.
1) FFXV’s trend of highlighting Noct’s vulnerability clearly remains in full effect in the Omen trailer. In this case, though, there’s a conscious effort to show him being stripped – most obviously of his clothes, but also his powers and his mind. Without his friends, the trailer seems to say, Noct is easy prey for the black dog.
2) The black dog is not Umbra – Umbra appears as Pryna’s reflection, likely represents Noct, and looks different from the black dog. Rather, the black dog is likely meant to be taken as a hellhound; it clearly reflects some of the requisite mythological baggage. The black dog has glowing red eyes, it’s a herald of death, and it’s shown three times in Pryna’s place (some of the hellhound myths say that it takes three sightings for its curse to take effect).
Character-wise, I suspect that the black dog represents Ardyn, who’s already been shown to be a false ally turned traitor and whose black wing-cape-thingy aligns him with FFXV’s take on Reapers. As such, it seems like the dynamic in the game will have to be different – Noct’s friends can keep him from being led astray unknowingly.
3) While Noct’s friends clearly change the underlying dynamic, I don’t think we’re meant to see the events of the Omen trailer as wholly hypothetical. There are a number of references to scenes we know are going to happen in the game, after all – the invasion of Altissia, most obviously, but also the fights at the train station and in the Niflheim base, and the way Noct’s trip takes him through the Coernix gas station.
As such, I suspect that the fights that we haven’t seen in previous trailers will likewise appear, if in a different form. There’s nothing particularly unbelievable about Noct and co. facing off against a Behemoth in a palace or Niflheim soldiers on a railway bridge, after all. Fighting Luna would be the most questionable if it weren’t the very thing that we’re supposed to be trying to prevent. Changing fate always happens at the eleventh hour in fiction, regardless of any and all previous attempts; if keeping Noct from falling to madness and killing Luna is the goal, then it has to happen during that fight.
(It’s worth noting that Amy Shiels, Luna’s VA, said that there were a ton of action sequences towards the end of recording, which is consistent with this prediction.)
4) Of course, if the dynamic is different, there’s gotta be a reason for the climactic event to take place anyway. And, in this case, I think that reason has already been hinted – if Ardyn can’t lead Noct astray unknowingly, he can always just imprison him in the Crystal and torture him into it.
This is where things seem to give off heavy Avatar vibes. Ardyn needs Noct to become the True King to consider Noct’s death satisfying, which reminds me of nothing quite so much as Zaheer’s plot to kill Korra in the Avatar State. We don’t know what Noct’s “True King” form looks like, but the uncontrollable daemonic-looking version of Noct that killed Luna in the vision certainly seems like it could fit the bill.
Unlike the Avatar State, the daemonic-looking version of Noct appears to be a being of darkness and chaos rather than of light and harmony. But if some of the underlying FNC mythos has stuck around, that… actually sort of makes sense? Chaos in FNC is what gives humans free will, and thus the ability to fight their fate. It’s entirely plausible that a properly-controlled being powered by Chaos could be required to deal with the Plague of the Stars in place of the gods. (Or maybe the King of Light functions as a sin eater, taking chaos upon himself to remove it from the world? A lot of people die in the XV canon, and that'd mean a lot of free chaos by FNC rules. And there could be an association between light and chaos, given Noct's ability to see the "light of expiring souls.") Of course, without proper control, such a being would just be a monster, and without proper context, it’d be easy to think that vanquishing the “True King” and the Chaos it represents would restore the world’s balance as opposed to ensuring its doom.
“There’s nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” Perhaps this is what that means – the “evil” powers that cause Noct and Luna so much pain in the vision can actually be used for good, given the proper mindset.
4a) If the “True King” is Noct’s Superpowered Evil Side, what if he’s the one to blind Ignis and scar Gladio, and that’s the reason why Gladio is so upset at him in the train?
4b) It’s a rather odd coincidence that the tree Noct sees the false Pryna under and ends up fighting Luna near looks rather like the Tree of Time from Legend of Korra, given the other similarities. XD;
5) If the vision is what we’re trying to prevent, it’d be awfully strange for Noct to outright fail to do so. However, the ESRB synopsis references scenes that sound like a perfect analog for what we saw in the Omen trailer: “one cutscene involves a woman being stabbed off-screen; another scene depicts a character with a bloodstained wound.”
One explanation, of course, is that the vision – or, at least, the portions involving Noct and Luna’s fight – is actually reproduced in the game. If the game is actually building up to a final confrontation that will determine whether or not the vision will be averted, it’d be awfully strange to leave that vision out of the game itself. Maybe Noct has nightmares about it, or he sees it when an Astral is messing with his head. If that’s the case, the ESRB synopsis really doesn’t predict anything.
The other option is that Noct actually does stab Luna, but things change after that because his friends are there. She wouldn’t even need to die, necessarily; Prompto and Gladio could hold Noct off while Ignis keeps her from bleeding out.
6) I’ve seen a lot of talk about how the Omen trailer basically proves that the Ring of the Lucii is a bad, bad thing, but Noct doesn’t actually wear it at any point in the trailer. That he does get it in the game is a point of differentiation, not a step down the dark path shown in the trailer.
7) The trailer obviously wants us to assume that the one death that the voice speaking to Regis is looking forward to is Luna’s, but that seems almost too obvious. Besides, whether the voice is the Crystal or one of the Lucii, it’s unclear why Luna’s death would allow it to rest. I’m more inclined to think that it’s looking forward to Noct’s death, probably to put an end to the line of Lucis and free the past kings from their duty.
Regis, of course, can’t let that happen for a number of reasons. And so, he chooses to defy fate at Insomnia’s expense, asks forgiveness from the gods for the carnage he knows will ensue, and walks knowingly to his death.
Great post overall. A few things I want to mention.
The Shakespeare quote was never meant to serve any sort of plot point. It was purely added to set the mood for the Versus trailer. This line never had any direct implications for the game's story. This is a common thing I see people mentioning, but it really has no weight in FFXV's story. That being said, you don't really make it an important part of your analysis anyway.
With point seven, the obvious answer for why Luna's death would be satisfactory is actually pretty obvious. The Oracle helps keep back the Plague of Darkness. So, if eternal darkness is so close that killing one more Oracle will be enough to bring it about, then looking forward to "one more death" is enough. Or, this being could be feeding off of the power of the Oracle; consuming one more Oracle is enough for its plans or purpose. Plenty of different ways it can go. Ultimately, though, we don't really have all the answers right now.
The Shakespeare quote was never meant to serve any sort of plot point. It was purely added to set the mood for the Versus trailer. This line never had any direct implications for the game's story. This is a common thing I see people mentioning, but it really has no weight in FFXV's story. That being said, you don't really make it an important part of your analysis anyway.
With point seven, the obvious answer for why Luna's death would be satisfactory is actually pretty obvious. The Oracle helps keep back the Plague of Darkness. So, if eternal darkness is so close that killing one more Oracle will be enough to bring it about, then looking forward to "one more death" is enough. Or, this being could be feeding off of the power of the Oracle; consuming one more Oracle is enough for its plans or purpose. Plenty of different ways it can go. Ultimately, though, we don't really have all the answers right now.
Thanks!
I didn't really mean to imply that I thought the Shakespeare line was intended to have direct story implications so much as to speculate about how the game might have been intending to reflect the mood suggested by the line. ^^;
I've been a KH fan since before Versus XIII was a thing, so I've seen Nomura's early concepts translated into complete games, and that's the sort of feeling I got from this. He'd take quotes that seemed like they were initially intended to be mood-setting and make them literal ("Who is Nobody, you ask? They are the nonexistent ones") while taking other quotes that seemed both literal and important and using them in an unexpectedly trivial context (most infamously, "This time… I’ll fight"). Drawing on a cool-sounding Shakespeare quote when crafting a story about a dark character learning to use seemingly-evil powers for good ends is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect him to do.
With that said, his propensity to start with compelling imagery and work out the specifics afterwards meant that there was never any guarantee that the Shakespeare quote would relate to the final game in any way other than Noct being somewhat ambiguous and the (now cut) mafia and death worship setting for Lucis, which I don't think a lot of people recognized a possibility. (My own reaction was something like, "cool, the quote's actually relevant to the final game." xD; )
For the record, Nomura actually did offer some insight as to what the Shakespeare quote was meant to imply: "At the beginning of the trailer, there is a quote from Shakespeare about good and evil, about how there is no absolute good or evil. This matches quite well with the concept of FFV13, and that aspect of the game is reflected in the main character ... a real ambivalence towards good and evil." Which, of course, could have gone either way with regards to plot relevance while still making a whole lot more sense in light of the Omen trailer.
The problem with the possibilities that you offered is that they don't make much sense in context. The voice doesn't just need a reason to want Luna dead; it would need a reason to want her dead that's consistent with Regis' understated reaction.
I mean, Regis obviously doesn't want the Plague of the Stars to happen, and certainly not at the cost of the life of someone he cares about. If the vision was the voice revealing what it intended for Luna, one would expect Regis to seem more upset about it.
The voice wanting Luna dead makes even less sense in light of this translation of the trailer's Japanese subtitles done by Poipoipoi9 on NeoGAF:
Regis: これまでにどれだけの命が犠牲になったことか。
(So far, how many lives must be sacrificed)
Being:すべての犠牲は未来の王のため。そして我々の使命終わる。
(All of the sacrifices are for the sake of the Future King. And then Our Mission will end)
Regis:王は必ず使命を果たす。
(The King will surely fulfill the Mission)/(The King will surely fulfill his responsibility)
Being: 当然のことだ。
(Of course.)
If that translation is accurate, the only way the voice's line prior to saying its mission will end/it can rest could refer to the same thing is if the Future King's mission requires his death. It certainly can't be about Luna's death, given that causing the Plague of the Stars is antithetical to the King's mission.
On a different note, the Japanese subs make it pretty clear that the voice is one of the Lucii, since it talks about its mission regarding the Future King as a shared one. (This is probably what the English version intends to imply with the "as must we all" line.) And while the Lucii are certainly Machiavellian pieces of work, it wouldn't make much sense for them to want the world to fall to darkness given their deal in Kingsglaive.
In light of that, I think the conversation basically reflects the Lucii being their usual Machiavellian selves -- treating Luna's death as collateral damage and Noct's as necessary for the greater good -- and Regis rejecting that outcome even though that means sacrificing his own people and throwing the fate of the world into uncertainty.
I didn't really mean to imply that I thought the Shakespeare line was intended to have direct story implications so much as to speculate about how the game might have been intending to reflect the mood suggested by the line. ^^;
I've been a KH fan since before Versus XIII was a thing, so I've seen Nomura's early concepts translated into complete games, and that's the sort of feeling I got from this. He'd take quotes that seemed like they were initially intended to be mood-setting and make them literal ("Who is Nobody, you ask? They are the nonexistent ones") while taking other quotes that seemed both literal and important and using them in an unexpectedly trivial context (most infamously, "This time… I’ll fight"). Drawing on a cool-sounding Shakespeare quote when crafting a story about a dark character learning to use seemingly-evil powers for good ends is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect him to do.
With that said, his propensity to start with compelling imagery and work out the specifics afterwards meant that there was never any guarantee that the Shakespeare quote would relate to the final game in any way other than Noct being somewhat ambiguous and the (now cut) mafia and death worship setting for Lucis, which I don't think a lot of people recognized a possibility. (My own reaction was something like, "cool, the quote's actually relevant to the final game." xD; )
For the record, Nomura actually did offer some insight as to what the Shakespeare quote was meant to imply: "At the beginning of the trailer, there is a quote from Shakespeare about good and evil, about how there is no absolute good or evil. This matches quite well with the concept of FFV13, and that aspect of the game is reflected in the main character ... a real ambivalence towards good and evil." Which, of course, could have gone either way with regards to plot relevance while still making a whole lot more sense in light of the Omen trailer.
The problem with the possibilities that you offered is that they don't make much sense in context. The voice doesn't just need a reason to want Luna dead; it would need a reason to want her dead that's consistent with Regis' understated reaction.
I mean, Regis obviously doesn't want the Plague of the Stars to happen, and certainly not at the cost of the life of someone he cares about. If the vision was the voice revealing what it intended for Luna, one would expect Regis to seem more upset about it.
The voice wanting Luna dead makes even less sense in light of this translation of the trailer's Japanese subtitles done by Poipoipoi9 on NeoGAF:
Regis: これまでにどれだけの命が犠牲になったことか。
(So far, how many lives must be sacrificed)
Being:すべての犠牲は未来の王のため。そして我々の使命終わる。
(All of the sacrifices are for the sake of the Future King. And then Our Mission will end)
Regis:王は必ず使命を果たす。
(The King will surely fulfill the Mission)/(The King will surely fulfill his responsibility)
Being: 当然のことだ。
(Of course.)
If that translation is accurate, the only way the voice's line prior to saying its mission will end/it can rest could refer to the same thing is if the Future King's mission requires his death. It certainly can't be about Luna's death, given that causing the Plague of the Stars is antithetical to the King's mission.
On a different note, the Japanese subs make it pretty clear that the voice is one of the Lucii, since it talks about its mission regarding the Future King as a shared one. (This is probably what the English version intends to imply with the "as must we all" line.) And while the Lucii are certainly Machiavellian pieces of work, it wouldn't make much sense for them to want the world to fall to darkness given their deal in Kingsglaive.
In light of that, I think the conversation basically reflects the Lucii being their usual Machiavellian selves -- treating Luna's death as collateral damage and Noct's as necessary for the greater good -- and Regis rejecting that outcome even though that means sacrificing his own people and throwing the fate of the world into uncertainty.
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llazy77 and Storm