Giving the XIII Saga a new chance.

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Nora_Nightingale

Balamb Garden Freshman
Nov 7, 2015
34
19
34
#21
I will admit that Lightning Returns actually provides better mechanics.


But I noticed XIII main driving gameplay is gaining momentum, nit carefully choosing your attacks.
 

Mistwalker

SOLDIER Second Class
Sep 20, 2014
313
161
39
Santiago de Chile
www.youtube.com
#22
Little Update #2:
- The Japanese voicetrack just gives the game another, far better feeling than the English VO. The game keeps the original soundtrack as well (with the original lyrics) and the voices just match the character so much better. I love it. Though I can't help but think that Vanille is being voiced by an old woman trying to impersonate a teenager (I don't know who her seiyuu is).

- I always forget that the Steam version of the game hates the Xbox One version u.u I have to keep configuring the PlayStation 4 controller to play this game. Aside from that, playing it with any of those controllers is a far better experience than playing it with the DualShock 3 xD (I never played this game on Xbox 360, so I don't know how it feels to play it with that controller).
 
Likes: Sora96

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,326
239
28
Australia
kh13.com
#23
Little Update #2:
- The Japanese voicetrack just gives the game another, far better feeling than the English VO. The game keeps the original soundtrack as well (with the original lyrics) and the voices just match the character so much better. I love it. Though I can't help but think that Vanille is being voiced by an old woman trying to impersonate a teenager (I don't know who her seiyuu is).

- I always forget that the Steam version of the game hates the Xbox One version u.u I have to keep configuring the PlayStation 4 controller to play this game. Aside from that, playing it with any of those controllers is a far better experience than playing it with the DualShock 3 xD (I never played this game on Xbox 360, so I don't know how it feels to play it with that controller).
Hopefully they have the Japanese audio available as DLC when/if they release it on PS4.
 
Likes: Mistwalker

coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
#26
X-2 was completely different though.
Yes and no.
Actually, sans stagger (and a few other tricks: i.e. ATB refresh) in XIII.... both XIII and X-2 are just standard ATB lol.

X-2 and XIII are just an easier comparison than others because of the role that initiative plays.
 
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Nora_Nightingale

Balamb Garden Freshman
Nov 7, 2015
34
19
34
#27
Yes and no.
Actually, sans stagger (and a few other tricks: i.e. ATB refresh) in XIII.... both XIII and X-2 are just standard ATB lol.

X-2 and XIII are just an easier comparison than others because of the role that initiative plays.
The bigger difference is how they rely on the momentum. XIII relies heavily more on paradigms rather than using key attacks and optimizing them yourself. This is why i personally can't get around FF13 (yet somehow easier to get used to in 13-2).
 

coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
#28
XIII relies heavily more on paradigms rather than using key attacks and optimizing them yourself.
X-2 and XIII are still really similar in that regard, strong setups and combos are the crux of the gameplay in both.

I think XIII-2 suffers a lot more from what you mentioned above than XIII. Just because development in XIII-2 kinda trumps anything else.
 

Shin Kazama

Sphere Hunter
UFFSite Veteran
Oct 30, 2013
240
42
#29
I need to go back and play these, too. My first PS3's HDD went bad right when I was at the very last section of FFXIII. I own the collector's edition of XIII-2 and Lightning Returns but have never played them. I feel like I need to play through XIII again and then hit the sequels.
 

Nora_Nightingale

Balamb Garden Freshman
Nov 7, 2015
34
19
34
#30
X-2 and XIII are still really similar in that regard, strong setups and combos are the crux of the gameplay in both.

I think XIII-2 suffers a lot more from what you mentioned above than XIII. Just because development in XIII-2 kinda trumps anything else.
With XIII-2, you can change party leader, also optimize your party with monsters, so it still helps you a little more in terms of paradigms. i actually think the monster collecting actually enhances the paradigm shift system. Despite thinking it was gimmicky as heck, it helps alot.

With XIII, there was only "the main way or less than 0 stars" and thats what it came down to. Combos for X-2, don't work the same way XIII series does. As the momentum is more simplified in XIII series.
 

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,326
239
28
Australia
kh13.com
#31
With XIII-2, you can change party leader, also optimize your party with monsters, so it still helps you a little more in terms of paradigms. i actually think the monster collecting actually enhances the paradigm shift system. Despite thinking it was gimmicky as heck, it helps alot.

With XIII, there was only "the main way or less than 0 stars" and thats what it came down to. Combos for X-2, don't work the same way XIII series does. As the momentum is more simplified in XIII series.
Might be able to add that feature to XIII in a PS4 port.
 

coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
#33
With XIII-2, you can change party leader, also optimize your party with monsters, so it still helps you a little more in terms of paradigms. i actually think the monster collecting actually enhances the paradigm shift system. Despite thinking it was gimmicky as heck, it helps alot.
changing party leader was something you could do in XIII.... you can just optimize your paradigms based on who you had on point.
Monster collecting didn't necessarily add much to paradigms that wasn't already present in XIII.

With XIII, there was only "the main way or less than 0 stars" and thats what it came down to. Combos for X-2, don't work the same way XIII series does. As the momentum is more simplified in XIII series.
I disagree. There's several approaches you can take to bosses in XIII and still do well, I played XIII under NCU conditions and still had no issues getting 5 stars on storyline bosses and most quest bosses.
Also momentum is actually simpler in X-2. Momentum in X-2 is just reflected in chain combos which are pretty easy to stack.
In XIII, you have more factors going into keeping momentum in battle because enemy stagger isn't as easy. (ATB refresh, Eidolon cancel, etc.)
 
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Nora_Nightingale

Balamb Garden Freshman
Nov 7, 2015
34
19
34
#34
changing party leader was something you could do in XIII.... you can just optimize your paradigms based on who you had on point.
Monster collecting didn't necessarily add much to paradigms that wasn't already present in XIII.
Monster collecting definitely added and makes significant changes to the party just by having to be able to change that third party member. Just like how having a monster in your party in X-2 also mixed things up. Changing party leader was not something you could do in XIII, at least not in mid-battle. Optimizing your paradigms also came in pretty late in the game.

I disagree. There's several approaches you can take to bosses in XIII and still do well, I played XIII under NCU conditions and still had no issues getting 5 stars on storyline bosses and most quest bosses.
Also momentum is actually simpler in X-2. Momentum in X-2 is just reflected in chain combos which are pretty easy to stack.
In XIII, you have more factors going into keeping momentum in battle because enemy stagger isn't as easy. (ATB refresh, Eidolon cancel, etc.)
I'm sure with bosses they have to be a little more versatile.
X-2 is more about timing, having to attack the same monster at the right time will cause a chain. The problem with XIII it doesn't exactly "spell it out". This is one of the minor identity crisis of XIII as it wants you to focus on paradigms, but in order to get the 5 star process,

with XIII it also focus on momentum on beating the game, and i'm not talking about just enemies, but how the game is played. heal enough, then hit hard enough, then heal enough. its this "flow" that you run. And other FF games have their own flow, but more based on specific tactics. You can still win in auto-mode, you just wont always get 5 stars. For a specific boss of course, Barthandelus, is a special exception.
 

coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
#35
Monster collecting definitely added and makes significant changes to the party just by having to be able to change that third party member. Just like how having a monster in your party in X-2 also mixed things up. Changing party leader was not something you could do in XIII, at least not in mid-battle. Optimizing your paradigms also came in pretty late in the game.
It didn't. It brought monster capture elements to the game, but it didn't add anything to the paradigm system itself. Paradigms were still paradigms, the meta didn't change just because you could capture monsters (same for X-2). Again, you could just alternate your party in XIII (regardless of whether it was a mid-battle function or not). These are things that remained static across XIII and XIII-2. Of course, in XIII you were limited in your development due to story progression, but that's the only glaring difference between XIII and XIII-2 gameplay... the point at which the game begins to orifice itself to the player.

also, I think for someone who seems to hold optimization in such reverence, it's a bit strange that you'd cite XIII's auto-battle as it's the most un-optimal way to play. Of course you're not going to get 5 stars using that, by mid-game you'd be lucky to even beat bosses. The game isn't intended to be played that way, and I think it's fairly obvious because you definitely will hit a wall if you've been relying heavily on that and don't understand the game's basics.
 
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Likes: Crystal Power

Nora_Nightingale

Balamb Garden Freshman
Nov 7, 2015
34
19
34
#36
It didn't. It brought monster capture elements to the game, but it didn't add anything to the paradigm system itself. Paradigms were still paradigms, the meta didn't change just because you could capture monsters (same for X-2). Again, you could just alternate your party in XIII (regardless of whether it was a mid-battle function or not). These are things that remained static across XIII and XIII-2. Of course, in XIII you were limited in your development due to story progression, but that's the only glaring difference between XIII and XIII-2 gameplay... the point at which the game begins to orifice itself to the player.

also, I think for someone who seems to hold optimization in such reverence, it's a bit strange that you'd cite XIII's auto-battle as it's the most un-optimal way to play. Of course you're not going to get 5 stars using that, by mid-game you'd be lucky to even beat bosses. The game isn't intended to be played that way, and I think it's fairly obvious because you definitely will hit a wall if you've been relying heavily on that and don't understand the game's basics.
You see paradigm system is enhanced my allowing you to experiment with your party early on. Story reasons are bogus for what ff13 was. So paradigms feel a little different with new monsters coming in.


My main point was that you can't switch party leader mid battle in 13. THat is a big key difference in playing then being stuck as one party leader and when you die its game over. There's no other way you can twist the wording.


I definitely do care about optimizing a game, but ff13 was a game you had to search incredibly hard for optimization. and to know what the heck you were doing. Heavy tutorials we're placed for the simplest actions. And of course because all attacks are being slammed it's hard to really get a feel of the optimization. I relied on the guide to tell me how to optimize outside of the crystarium
 

Mistwalker

SOLDIER Second Class
Sep 20, 2014
313
161
39
Santiago de Chile
www.youtube.com
#39
I need to go back and play these, too. My first PS3's HDD went bad right when I was at the very last section of FFXIII. I own the collector's edition of XIII-2 and Lightning Returns but have never played them. I feel like I need to play through XIII again and then hit the sequels.
I highly suggest that if you can, play the PC version of those games. They have some performance issues, specially when talking frames per seconds, but anywhere else it's just a better experience. I wish I had played these games this way the first time.
 
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Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,326
239
28
Australia
kh13.com
#40
That doesn't mean a ps4 port will make any significant changes. heck, even HD remasters of X?X-2 are still almost the same game as before.
They already had the chance to do stuff with X & X-2 for the international versions. Would you have made any further changes to them?

I think the option to change party leaders is something they could well consider for a PS4 port.