Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
"Not getting game overs in FFXV isn't the issue here. Having to spam items in the first place, which happens when you're not good at the game, is the real issue here." That's the thing though, I spammed Items in Kingdom Hearts 3D, still got game overs there, spamming items shouldn't save you in a properly designed game unless it's for easy mode then I understand, but for Normal mode no, obviously you lack skill in an action RPG if you have to spam items, but that shouldn't save you from getting game overs forcing you to actually get better at the game. I mean how hard would it have been to code a cooldown timer, have an item limit like Kingdom Hearts, Game over once your HP hits zero, and Phoenix Downs only being usable for party members other than Noctis.
The thing is, Kingdom Hearts has a completely different sort of risk-reward prospect than FFXV does.

When you die in KH, you're given the option to go back to the beginning of either the room you were in (if you weren't in a boss fight) or the encounter in which you lost (if you were in a boss fight) with your items and EXP reverted to what they had been when you crossed that checkpoint. It's easy to die while trying to heal, but it's rare that you lose a huge amount of progress because of it. (The lack of skippable cutscenes in KHI was probably the biggest punishment-for-death in the entire series. =P ) And, when the checkpoints aren't designed to prevent the loss of meaningful progress, they feel highly unfair (I'm looking at you, final-boss-of-0.2 >=( ).

FFXV didn't want to make death feel meaningless like that, probably for narrative reasons. As such, it implemented a system where dying can result in the loss of hours of progress, particularly in dungeons (where you're completely unable to save most of the time). But, when the risk posed by dying is that steep, it's absolutely critical that players don't feel that any particular death is unfair. And, to that end, the game relies on a pure attrition system, which generally allows the player to choose to flee if they've run out of Phoenix Down.

Of course, by doing that, the consequences of playing badly have to come from something other than death. And to that end, the game makes restoratives that heal max HP and revive you from KO too expensive to rely on without grinding for money if you're not particularly competent at playing the game. It's the same kind of loop as in earlier games, really ("if you can't defeat an enemy, grind for abilities/items to help you get stronger"), just without the constant risk of losing progress. And, when you are low on restoratives, there's a major risk/reward decision to be made about whether to press on ahead regardless.

Anyway, the game as it currently exists is balanced around the existence of Phoenix Down, so removing that option isn't a good idea. (At the very least, Coeurls would be the worst thing ever if you couldn't use Phoenix Down.) Adding a cooldown timer as part of a Hard Mode wouldn't go awry, though.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
27
Unknown, Unknown
The thing is, Kingdom Hearts has a completely different sort of risk-reward prospect than FFXV does.

When you die in KH, you're given the option to go back to the beginning of either the room you were in (if you weren't in a boss fight) or the encounter in which you lost (if you were in a boss fight) with your items and EXP reverted to what they had been when you crossed that checkpoint. It's easy to die while trying to heal, but it's rare that you lose a huge amount of progress because of it. (The lack of skippable cutscenes in KHI was probably the biggest punishment-for-death in the entire series. =P ) And, when the checkpoints aren't designed to prevent the loss of meaningful progress, they feel highly unfair (I'm looking at you, final-boss-of-0.2 >=( ).

FFXV didn't want to make death feel meaningless like that, probably for narrative reasons. As such, it implemented a system where dying can result in the loss of hours of progress, particularly in dungeons (where you're completely unable to save most of the time). But, when the risk posed by dying is that steep, it's absolutely critical that players don't feel that any particular death is unfair. And, to that end, the game relies on a pure attrition system, which generally allows the player to choose to flee if they've run out of Phoenix Down.

Of course, by doing that, the consequences of playing badly have to come from something other than death. And to that end, the game makes restoratives that heal max HP and revive you from KO too expensive to rely on without grinding for money if you're not particularly competent at playing the game. It's the same kind of loop as in earlier games, really ("if you can't defeat an enemy, grind for abilities/items to help you get stronger"), just without the constant risk of losing progress. And, when you are low on restoratives, there's a major risk/reward decision to be made about whether to press on ahead regardless.

Anyway, the game as it currently exists is balanced around the existence of Phoenix Down, so removing that option isn't a good idea. (At the very least, Coeurls would be the worst thing ever if you couldn't use Phoenix Down.) Adding a cooldown timer as part of a Hard Mode wouldn't go awry, though.
I'm aware, but still doesn't change this spamming items shouldn't save you in a properly designed game unless it's for easy mode then I understand, but for Normal mode no,
The whole Phoenix Down thing is mainly to force the player to watch their health, and dodge enemy attacks instead of getting hit, Phoenix down carry on. Once your HP hits 0 it's over, and have there be a cooldown timer, oh and add Wound Potions so you can regain your Max HP bar, also add in an Item limit. This is what I would do for a Hard Mode difficulty
 

T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
The Kingdom Hearts games are not like Dark Souls that I'm aware of, but there is still enough difficulty to where you can't just stock up on items, and make yourself never get a game over, if FFXV's Normal was the same difficulty as KH2, I'd be satisfied. They are challenging enough to the average player, especially Kingdom Hearts 1, and some of the bosses in Kingdom Hearts 2.If FFXV had that level of difficulty no one would complain.
I was using a different ARPG to express a cheesing example. If a year from now, there haven't been any adjustments to difficulty, then sure I'll be more than happy to take back up this convo. I mean the level cap did get raised recently...so there must be some reason behind it.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
27
Unknown, Unknown
I was using a different ARPG to express a cheesing example. If a year from now, there haven't been any adjustments to difficulty, then sure I'll be more than happy to take back up this convo. I mean the level cap did get raised recently...so there must be some reason behind it.
Kinda wish the difficulty wasn't like that on release honestly, same with the story, I'm not gonna get over the whole
Prompto MT thing, and apparently it's not even in the Japanese version he just goes I'm a guy from Niflihelm, I wish they just removed that moment from the game itself. I mean what logical reasoning would the guys hate him for being a guy from Niflheim or a supposed MT
 

T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
Kinda wish the difficulty wasn't like that on release honestly, same with the story, I'm not gonna get over the whole
Prompto MT thing, and apparently it's not even in the Japanese version he just goes I'm a guy from Niflihelm, I wish they just removed that moment from the game itself. I mean what logical reasoning would the guys hate him for being a guy from Niflheim or a supposed MT
There's a lot of things that you aren't going to get over. It's your choice at the end of the day sir/ma'am.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
3,351
6,012
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Switzerland
http://www.siliconera.com/2017/02/13/final-fantasy-xvs-gdc-2017-trailer-epic-interactive-music/

"Interactive music is common in AAA games, but in games like ‘Final Fantasy’ that always have a strong melody line and musical progression, it doesn’t go well in the same way. Square Enix worked to make an intelligent music system called “MAGI”, that allows composers to create music in any tempo or measures and has customized sync points to make it interactive while remaining epic. In this talk, the sound team behind ‘Final Fantasy XV’ will share how they created actual music data in their proprietary authoring tools, and issues they faced during implementing them such as synchronization with game scene and looping, fading, etc."
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
I'm aware, but still doesn't change this spamming items shouldn't save you in a properly designed game unless it's for easy mode then I understand, but for Normal mode no,
The whole Phoenix Down thing is mainly to force the player to watch their health, and dodge enemy attacks instead of getting hit, Phoenix down carry on. Once your HP hits 0 it's over, and have there be a cooldown timer, oh and add Wound Potions so you can regain your Max HP bar, also add in an Item limit. This is what I would do for a Hard Mode difficulty
There's no hard and fast rule that says that death is the only "proper" way to punish players for playing poorly. FFXV wants death to be rare but painful to avoid ludonarrative dissonance, and it therefore inflicts a monetary penalty rather than a loss-of-progress penalty unless you mess up really badly (or fail in ways that don't involve dying in battle, like messing up a stealth section, running out of time in timed sections, or messing up in Pitioss, in which case it checkpoints you back to the start of that section). As such, the existence of insta-KO moves that necessitate the presence of Phoenix Down doesn't necessarily imply bad design, and therefore the inability to remove it without being incredibly frustrating isn't bad design either.

In any case, a cooldown timer alone would be enough to put FFXV's healing restrictions on par with Kingdom Hearts', which might have an item limit but transitions to relying almost entirely on cooldown timer'd Cure magic very early on, with Leaf Shield (invincibility while using Cure magic) coming into play pretty quickly and Second Chance and Once More being critical to high level play. (I find items so useless in KH that they lose their place in my shortcuts/command deck as soon as Cure magic is available.)

And I dunno what you're talking about with regards to "Wound Potions," because that's what Ethers are for. =P
 

xXShuyaXx

Forest Owl
May 25, 2016
353
654
32
"Gimp yourself if you want a challenging game" is honestly really stupid advice. Challenge runs are alright if someone enjoys it but it's not the player's responsibility to balance the game.
It's not my responsibility...
It's not my responsibility to pick up rubbish.
It's not my responsibility to help others.
It's not my responsibility to return a lost wallet.
It's not my responsibility to help that dude getting mugged.
It's not my responsibility to enjoy a game the way I want to.

You know, let that sink in.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,651
1,369
People are forgetting this game was designed in a way so that many people could play however they wanted. It was stated by Tabata many times in ATR's. The game's current design does exactly that if you think about it.

The Nixperience band was introduced to give players the option to make the gamer more challenging. They are trying their best to think up of more solutions, which means that with time, more difficulty options will be available.

It's very easy to sit there as a consumer and bitch and moan about what they "should" do as if it's the easiest thing in the world. Trust me when I say this: when it is actually YOU behind the wheel of game design, things would be more difficult and different than you could ever imagine.

Why this discussion has dragged on for soo long is beyond me.

Just fucking wait and see what they will do. Jesus.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
27
Unknown, Unknown
It's not my responsibility...
It's not my responsibility to pick up rubbish.
It's not my responsibility to help others.
It's not my responsibility to return a lost wallet.
It's not my responsibility to help that dude getting mugged.
It's not my responsibility to enjoy a game the way I want to.

You know, let that sink in.
I never had to enjoy a game out of responsibility, that just happened naturally, like in all great games actually.,
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
2,595
Idk, ask the 4chan "leaker". ;) ;) ;)

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/831347480214151169

>Didn't want to create a comprehensive balanced story
>Importance placed on the main party/Noct's POV

That...doesn't make sense lol. On one hand i'm quite pleased with the main characters we ended up getting, on the other hand the side cast deserved more love too.

EDIT: Tabata wants to create extra FFXV content for as long as possible, goal is currently set for 1 year.

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/831354686070403072
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
27
Unknown, Unknown
Idk, ask the 4chan "leaker". ;) ;) ;)

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/831347480214151169

>Didn't want to create a comprehensive balanced story
>Importance placed on the main party/Noct's POV

That...doesn't make sense lol. On one hand i'm quite pleased with the main characters we ended up getting, on the other hand the side cast deserved more love too.

EDIT: Tabata wants to create extra FFXV content for as long as possible, goal is currently set for 1 year.

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/831354686070403072
">Didn't want to create a comprehensive balanced story
>Importance placed on the main party/Noct's POV"
This makes me pretty sad, are you kidding me? So the barely fleshed out side characters wasn't time, it was by design.
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
Idk, ask the 4chan "leaker". ;) ;) ;)
Not that this'll stop anyone from putting stock in those leaks, unfortunately. >_>;

https://twitter.com/RedMakuzawa/status/831347480214151169

>Didn't want to create a comprehensive balanced story
>Importance placed on the main party/Noct's POV

That...doesn't make sense lol. On one hand i'm quite pleased with the main characters we ended up getting, on the other hand the side cast deserved more love too.
I feel like there might be some translation issues going on here, because I can't really imagine the guy who made the game using the phrasing that Game Informer chose. It'd make more sense if he intended to say something like, "We didn't want to tell the story from an omniscient perspective."

I wonder if this means that we were supposed to interpret the flashback scenes showing Luna's story and stuff from Kingsglaive as having been experienced by Noct in some way? There are only a few scenes that break PoV besides those.
 
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Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
2,595
It kinda amuses me how some translation issues from the past up to now tend to make Tabata into a bigger madman than what his actual portrayal indicates whenever it comes to certain statements lel.