Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

[Death Penalty]

Don't let NeoGAF see that!

First, please don't get mad at me here, just trying to give my two cents on this stat. If we're being completely real here, this is a really bad metric by which to gauge the quality of the game or even the quality of the demo presented at Gamescom. I mean, didn't this forum just totally rail against Rotten Tomatoes for doing a similar style of review for Kingsglaive that ended up strongly against the movie? The trinary choice of "yes, no, maybe" is an awful way to gauge what people actually thought of the game, they were pretty much forced to say aye or nay on if they enjoyed what they played. Meanwhile, when you read impressions that are more detailed from folks that actually played it at the event what you primarily see is "I liked it BUT". If the Rotten Tomatoes reviews for Kingsglaive don't impress you, you probably shouldn't be impressed by these numbers collected and dispensed by Square themselves as part of a marketing push for a product they are trying to sell you.

 

[DrBretto]

No one is saying it's an end all be all. And there's a few differences between RT. RT doesn't let you decide if it's a Yay or a Nay. One guy's 70 is a yay, while it's someone else's nay. An, more importantly there's the maybe option for the "yeah, but..." Take it to too much of a micro level and you're magnifying the dusk mites. 90% of the people who played it had a good time, by their own anonymous admission. That's all it says and that's all it's trying to measure.

But that's not the interesting piece in this. No one said it was a huge deal at all, yet people were trying to jump on the "that doesn't mean anything" train completely unopposed and unprompted. To me, this suggests a defensiveness of preconceived notions, most commonly seen in "fanboys" only in reverse. IE, a clear, hypocritical bias.

 

[Death Penalty]

No one is saying it's an end all be all. And there's a few differences between RT. RT doesn't let you decide if it's a Yay or a Nay. One guy's 70 is a yay, while it's someone else's nay. An, more importantly there's the maybe option for the "yeah, but..." Take it to too much of a micro level and you're magnifying the dusk mites. 90% of the people who played it had a good time, by their own anonymous admission. That's all it says and that's all it's trying to measure.

But that's not the interesting piece in this. No one said it was a huge deal at all, yet people were trying to jump on the "that doesn't mean anything" train completely unopposed and unprompted. To me, this suggests a defensiveness of preconceived notions, most commonly seen in "fanboys" only in reverse. IE, a clear, hypocritical bias.

But this forum was definitely taking is as positive news, even saying things like this contradicted naysayers, and the assertion that people are arguing against this unopposed is not what I'm seeing in the least. All I'm doing is pointing out that this just falls on the spectrum for Final Fantasy XV impressions, and because it is sourced from a marketing event for XV by those doing the marketing it should largely be taken with the same grain of salt immensely negative impressions are taken with. It's just not particularly useful, while there are plenty of impressions out there that paint a much clearer picture of a good game with some flaws.

 

[DrBretto]

But this forum was definitely taking is as positive news

It is positive news. But that doesn't mean anyone thinks it means any more than it was. Certainly not the people all over the first page of the link posted. That was 100% unprompted and defensive.

 

[Death Penalty]

It is positive news.

That's one way it can be interpreted, but I personally think it's something people should be cautious about buying into too strongly. There's plenty of better impressions floating out there, and yet there are people feeling vindicated by this really odd metric. It just doesn't stand up to scrutiny in any meaningful way. It's a survey conducted and disseminated by a team trying to sell you a product with the numbers presented for that specific goal. Sample size is not disclosed. Options for feedback are incredibly simplistic to the point of boiling down anything that can be said to three choices. I don't think people are showing any kind of agenda against the game by pointing out that these numbers don't really provide us with much of anything, though can readily agree that that doesn't stop people with an agenda from doing the same thing.

But that doesn't mean anyone thinks it means any more than it was. Certainly not the people all over the first page of the link posted. That was 100% unprompted and defensive.

For posterity, this is an edit after the fact that I was not given the chance to reply to in my post.

 

[Omegataco]

Just watched the new footage, and I have to say I love the comfy music tracks that they've added to the world map, especially that slower tempo version of "Gratia Mundi".

 

[DrBretto]

but I personally think it's something people should be cautious about buying into too strongly.

This, specifically is what I mean. No one's buying too strongly into it. The only argument I've seen out if it is basically, despite NeoGAF's constant bitching, people seem to be enjoying themselves. No one that I've seen yet, and again, certainty not in the link provided, has made any claims about it beyond that. I'm sure if you dig hard enough you might find an outlier, there are crazy people everywhere, but there wasn't anything like that being reacted to.

This happens all the time on both sides, and in many other similar applications. When one side immediately jumps on the defensive like that, it's indicative of bias. When it happens the other way, like, say rumors of a delay, then they're called fanboys instead of blind haters, but the principle is the same thing.

But, we're going into a thing where we're about to argue two entirely different things again (that's twice you tried to argue about its importance, not the reaction, again unopposed), so I'm not going to press this any further. I made an inforned observation and stand by it.

 

[TwoDotsO]

With all due respect Death Penalty, you tend to argue against non-existent arguments. Seen it multiple times now.

If someone says X, you then respond with "yeah but Y > Z". In doing so you imply that Y == X. It's not. Simply respond to the initial statement or just let it be mate.

 

[Death Penalty]

This, specifically is what I mean. No one's buying too strongly into it. The only argument I've seen out if it is basically, despite NeoGAF's constant bitching, people seem to be enjoying themselves. No one that I've seen yet, and again, certainty not in the link provided, has made any claims about it beyond that. I'm sure if you dig hard enough you might find an outlier, there are crazy people everywhere, but there wasn't anything like that being reacted to.

This happens all the time on both sides, and in many other similar applications. When one side immediately jumps on the defensive like that, it's indicative of bias. When it happens the other way, like, say rumors of a delay, then they're called fanboys instead of blind haters, but the principle is the same thing.

But, we're going into a thing where we're about to argue two entirely different things again (that's twice you tried to argue about its importance, not the reaction, again unopposed), so I'm not going to press this any further. I made an inforned observation and stand by it.

This is the second time you've told me I don't understand what I'm arguing when I clearly do. I can plainly see your argument, I plainly engage in discourse with it, you then say "you don't get it". You're saying there's no strong acceptance of these numbers. That hasn't been the case from my observation. I then provide reasons why I think that's not the way to go as a means of expanding my point, not of "arguing with myself". I see extremely strong bias on both sides for and against these numbers (on NeoGAF, too!) and these aren't outliers these are folks who show up on every side of every argument for all time in perpetuity. Now, I'm going to continue on about the topic not as a means of argument but as a means of keeping conversation rolling. Allow me to clearly label this next point so you don't misunderstand again.

The following is an expansion of the discussion and not in any way meant to refute, contradict or otherwise disprove what was said prior. In this case, I do think the numbers are kinda rubbish and lean towards the side of those who are detractors of the numbers. There's a lot out there to garner positive impressions of the game from, like a lot. Well-written thoughtful impressions have crowed the game's strengths to the world even when they point out smaller flaws. But as long as we're on the topic of bias Square is going to be one of the most biased sources you could possibly find on the subject. There are some calling out people who don't like these numbers as being biased or negative, and I'm sure some or many of them are. We've just entered into a rare moment where I think the negative folks are right for once.

 

[DrBretto]

This is the second time you've told me I don't understand what I'm arguing when I clearly do.

It's not as 'clear' as you think.

I know a ton of people who argue like you do, man. I'm over it. I'll just avoid talking to you in the future. Otherwise, this will just go on forever.

 

[Death Penalty]

It's not as 'clear' as you think.

I know a ton of people who argue like you do, man. I'm over it. I'll just avoid talking to you in the future. Otherwise, this will just go on forever.

Would you do me the kindness of telling me what you actually were arguing or was I capable of parsing it myself?

 

[BladeRunner]

I have no idea what's being argued here at this point.

 

[DrBretto]

Would you do me the kindness of telling me what you actually were arguing or was I capable of parsing it myself?

That's, actually part of the problem. I wasn't arguing. I was pointing something out, then you demonstrated it. But, again, I have no interest in doing this dance with you every time. Twodots summed it up pretty well.

 

[DrBretto]

I have no idea what's being argued here at this point.

That's how that argument style "works". I say A, he argues that B is C. And it'll get twisted over and over all day.

 

[Death Penalty]

That's, actually part of the problem. I wasn't arguing. I was pointing something out, then you demonstrated it. But, again, I have no interest in doing this dance with you every time. Twodots summed it up pretty well.

Well if that's your call that's your call man. I'll try to work on my clarity in the future so hopefully you find me worth talking to again. I do think you're misrepresenting me and what I'm saying, and confusing parallel or additional points with "arguing" but if it's less stressful for you to ignore me I can't blame you.

 

[BladeRunner]

That's how that argument style "works". I say A, he argues that B is C. And it'll get twisted over and over all day.

I meant it's a pointless drama over nothing.

 

[Death Penalty]

I meant it's a pointless drama over nothing.

I was sorta hoping it wasn't drama and might just be some harmless talking, but that seldom tends to be the case with me. I'll work on it.

 

[BladeRunner]

I was sorta hoping it wasn't drama and might just be some harmless talking, but that seldom tends to be the case with me. I'll work on it.

Okay okay, maybe not drama, just an argument. I didn't want to sound offensive.

 

[DrBretto]

A first look at Justice Monsters V:

Revisited this. If you skip the first like 7 minutes when the game is loading and check your text messages any time Mario's special cousin tries to read the dialog, it does at least show a decent amount if gameplay for anyone like me that doesn't totally get it yet. Looks like it could be kinda fun.

 

[DrBretto]