Members see less ads - sign up now for free and join the community!
-
This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
I'm both pleased to learn about it and a bit disapointed it never happened.
It's interesting to see that they were going for this, while Kingdom hearts is also hinting on a Versus XIII reference.
In the end, a concept leaded to several project.
In this, i wonder if we would have gotten the good ol trashbag outfit, would have been a funny reference, still pleased that it appeared in Dissidia, now let me ask something, if it appeared in dissidia, was it because of episode Noctis being planed or is it just a reference? after all Lightning does have her Grey hair in 012 from original XIII concept.
I'm still curious, i think i'll always crave for more information between rumors and reality.
In a more personal note i always felt so attracted by Stella, I was sad when she got replaced, she had something, something pretty i was never able to find in Luna, In any case, it was a concept, we know now, that they had way more plan for the "heroine" whoever you call her Stella or Luna, and for some reasons they didn't managed to reach it.
With Dotf, i'm pleased to see that they really wanted to work on luna and her strong will, that saddly we will only see through concept art and a few lines.
FFXV is a truely interesting experience It's unstable, it have his bad and good things, i both blame and thanks nomura for showing it way too soon since i enjoy beta, well at this stage you can call it Alpha, Stuffs. And in the end despite being around for 10 years, the game was nothing but in dev for ~3 years, way too short for all the planed things. What is done is done, but we can't hide that a part that gave FFXV his unstable reputation was the promised things.
big thumbs up to the team who continued working on it after the release To be honest. Anyway, sorry for throwing some point of views ahah.
It's interesting to see that they were going for this, while Kingdom hearts is also hinting on a Versus XIII reference.
In the end, a concept leaded to several project.
In this, i wonder if we would have gotten the good ol trashbag outfit, would have been a funny reference, still pleased that it appeared in Dissidia, now let me ask something, if it appeared in dissidia, was it because of episode Noctis being planed or is it just a reference? after all Lightning does have her Grey hair in 012 from original XIII concept.
I'm still curious, i think i'll always crave for more information between rumors and reality.
In a more personal note i always felt so attracted by Stella, I was sad when she got replaced, she had something, something pretty i was never able to find in Luna, In any case, it was a concept, we know now, that they had way more plan for the "heroine" whoever you call her Stella or Luna, and for some reasons they didn't managed to reach it.
With Dotf, i'm pleased to see that they really wanted to work on luna and her strong will, that saddly we will only see through concept art and a few lines.
FFXV is a truely interesting experience It's unstable, it have his bad and good things, i both blame and thanks nomura for showing it way too soon since i enjoy beta, well at this stage you can call it Alpha, Stuffs. And in the end despite being around for 10 years, the game was nothing but in dev for ~3 years, way too short for all the planed things. What is done is done, but we can't hide that a part that gave FFXV his unstable reputation was the promised things.
big thumbs up to the team who continued working on it after the release To be honest. Anyway, sorry for throwing some point of views ahah.
Episode Noctis if it came out as DLC was slated to release around June 2019 based on the roadmap they gave in 2018, the Dissidia versus outfit was shown in October 2019, Ardyn got announced a few months later and Ardyn also has his alt Dissidia outfit being his 2000 years ago design that was used in DOTF too, since both of those Dissidia things would've happened after DOTF DLC ended it's likely they added alt outfits based on what was going to be in that, and so the trashbag outfit was likely going to be what he wore in Episode Noct too hence it called the "Otherworldly Garb" in Dissidia.
However while DOTF doesn't mention Noctis was wearing anything different it does have Noct mention that the Niflheim soldiers have different designs to the ones he's seen, which is most likely because in 2006 the Niflheim soldiers designs were different to what they looked in XV and the 2011 Versus trailer, so its possible in Episode Noctis's beginning he would've been wearing the trashbag outfit and the Niflheim soldiers would've looked like they did in the 2006 trailer too.
However while DOTF doesn't mention Noctis was wearing anything different it does have Noct mention that the Niflheim soldiers have different designs to the ones he's seen, which is most likely because in 2006 the Niflheim soldiers designs were different to what they looked in XV and the 2011 Versus trailer, so its possible in Episode Noctis's beginning he would've been wearing the trashbag outfit and the Niflheim soldiers would've looked like they did in the 2006 trailer too.
Episode Noctis if it came out as DLC was slated to release around June 2019 based on the roadmap they gave in 2018, the Dissidia versus outfit was shown in October 2019, Ardyn got announced a few months later and Ardyn also has his alt Dissidia outfit being his 2000 years ago design that was used in DOTF too, since both of those Dissidia things would've happened after DOTF DLC ended it's likely they added alt outfits based on what was going to be in that, and so the trashbag outfit was likely going to be what he wore in Episode Noct too hence it called the "Otherworldly Garb" in Dissidia.
However while DOTF doesn't mention Noctis was wearing anything different it does have Noct mention that the Niflheim soldiers have different designs to the ones he's seen, which is most likely because in 2006 the Niflheim soldiers designs were different to what they looked in XV and the 2011 Versus trailer, so its possible in Episode Noctis's beginning he would've been wearing the trashbag outfit and the Niflheim soldiers would've looked like they did in the 2006 trailer too.
However while DOTF doesn't mention Noctis was wearing anything different it does have Noct mention that the Niflheim soldiers have different designs to the ones he's seen, which is most likely because in 2006 the Niflheim soldiers designs were different to what they looked in XV and the 2011 Versus trailer, so its possible in Episode Noctis's beginning he would've been wearing the trashbag outfit and the Niflheim soldiers would've looked like they did in the 2006 trailer too.
Likes:
Nova, Storm and Bazztek
I seriously doubt the old designs were being reused; Nomura himself said the trashbag outfit was temporary while Roen finalized the designs, and the shift to the soldiers not being human was due to the change in content rating. There is zero reason to believe we'd see the old designs. However, it is clearly reusing the concepts of Noctis fighting outside the citadel, as well as the shots of him dreaming.
Episode Noctis is a conglomerate of the original Chapter 14, cut endings and more. Heck, I believe that the three Florence songs and their endings were already outlined; the main game's ending is the "be a God" ending, as Regis wanted while also utilizing elements from the other endings (and using chunks of the scene before Insomnia in the ending), Episode Ignis's verse 2 is the King ending and DotF is the man ending.
The only problem is it's scattered about. The evidence of concepts being reused is already present. Pitioss Dungeon and its red statues itself are likely leftovers from a time when Ardyn would have discussed his history and past, using the more stylized visuals ala EP Ardyn Prologue's opening. I think Pitioss needs to be reevaluated too.
Episode Noctis is a conglomerate of the original Chapter 14, cut endings and more. Heck, I believe that the three Florence songs and their endings were already outlined; the main game's ending is the "be a God" ending, as Regis wanted while also utilizing elements from the other endings (and using chunks of the scene before Insomnia in the ending), Episode Ignis's verse 2 is the King ending and DotF is the man ending.
The only problem is it's scattered about. The evidence of concepts being reused is already present. Pitioss Dungeon and its red statues itself are likely leftovers from a time when Ardyn would have discussed his history and past, using the more stylized visuals ala EP Ardyn Prologue's opening. I think Pitioss needs to be reevaluated too.
Noct specifically mentions that the Niflheim soldiers he's fighting in the "DOTF Versus dream" have different designs to the ones he's seen and fought, since that "dream" itself is something that takes place after Chapter 13 Noct has already seen all the regular MTs and the Niflheim troop MTs with rifles too, so for him to point out that the designs of them are different to the ones he's seen before in conjunction with the "Dream" being the old 2006 Versus trailer events only leads credence to it also reusing the old 2006 placeholder designs from that very trailer for the soldiers, and seeing as they already had the trashbag Noct outfit data done they very easily could've re-used that too for that sequence.
Even if in the "Versus Dream" he's seeing the soldiers were "automatons" instead of humans that doesn't mean their 2006 designs wouldn't or couldn't have been reused for that sequence, otherwise why even have Noct draw attention to their designs being something he hasn't seen before?
We already know that the trashbag outfit was temporary and thrown out in exchange for the Roen designs, but that has really no bearing on them possibly reusing it specifically in the context of showing an alternate timeline "dream" specifically showing the events of the old 2006 Versus trailer.
Pitioss hasn't ever been stated or even hinted to have anything to do with Ardyn, and the dungeon itself is a Solheim ruin with matching architecture to Costlemark and Steyliff which are also Solheim ruins, which pre-dates Ardyn anyway, so not sure where you got that from.
Even if in the "Versus Dream" he's seeing the soldiers were "automatons" instead of humans that doesn't mean their 2006 designs wouldn't or couldn't have been reused for that sequence, otherwise why even have Noct draw attention to their designs being something he hasn't seen before?
We already know that the trashbag outfit was temporary and thrown out in exchange for the Roen designs, but that has really no bearing on them possibly reusing it specifically in the context of showing an alternate timeline "dream" specifically showing the events of the old 2006 Versus trailer.
Pitioss hasn't ever been stated or even hinted to have anything to do with Ardyn, and the dungeon itself is a Solheim ruin with matching architecture to Costlemark and Steyliff which are also Solheim ruins, which pre-dates Ardyn anyway, so not sure where you got that from.
It's hilarious that the developers of Episode Ardyn and the canceled episodes tried to make them closer to Versus compared to the watered version of FFXV that we got. Proves that people really just wanted Versus and not Tabata's version of FFXV. I mean can anyone blame them? The original release is very bad, especially narrative and story wise. You have to look to a million of things (animes, ova, movies, mobile games etc.) just to get an idea of the universe because otherwise you don't have the slightest idea of what's happening in FFXV.
Of course the blame goes to Tabata. His games suffer from bad story and narration, hollow characters and boring dialogue. Just look at Coded, Type-0 and The 3rd Birthday. FFXV is the pinnacle of his incompetence as a director. The only good thing he worked on was Crisis Core and that's because Nomura and Kitase were basically shadow directing the game. Crisis Core is the best entry point if someone wants to get into the FFVII universe despite being the last project of the compilation of FFVII.
Thankfully, Tabata is no more at SE and he can't massacre any other project.
Of course the blame goes to Tabata. His games suffer from bad story and narration, hollow characters and boring dialogue. Just look at Coded, Type-0 and The 3rd Birthday. FFXV is the pinnacle of his incompetence as a director. The only good thing he worked on was Crisis Core and that's because Nomura and Kitase were basically shadow directing the game. Crisis Core is the best entry point if someone wants to get into the FFVII universe despite being the last project of the compilation of FFVII.
Thankfully, Tabata is no more at SE and he can't massacre any other project.
Likes:
Gingersnaps and Vallen
And yet, the best part of that game -- that incredible ending! -- was all Tabata's doing, while the weakest part, Genesis, reeked of Kitase and Nomura*.
In fact, I'd argue that Tabata is the first (offline?) FF director who's been able to convey a real sense of weight to the heroes' choices and sacrifices since Sakaguchi left. The only reason I'm not more concerned about his absence is that Project Athia brought in the guy who wrote Rogue One for its story, and Rogue One was the only Disney Star Wars movie with any real weight.
* In light of recent interviews about VIIR, I'm far more likely to suspect Kitase of being behind the blatant retcon elements, even if Genesis is super Nomura-y at a surface level.
In fact, I'd argue that Tabata is the first (offline?) FF director who's been able to convey a real sense of weight to the heroes' choices and sacrifices since Sakaguchi left. The only reason I'm not more concerned about his absence is that Project Athia brought in the guy who wrote Rogue One for its story, and Rogue One was the only Disney Star Wars movie with any real weight.
* In light of recent interviews about VIIR, I'm far more likely to suspect Kitase of being behind the blatant retcon elements, even if Genesis is super Nomura-y at a surface level.
With the FFXV universe you primarily need 3 things, everything else is just supplementary. The core game, Kingsglaive, and Brotherhood. Brotherhood is free, and if a person has free time to bitch online about various things, then that same person has time to watch free content. Even then, FFXV's storyline is one of the most straight forward ones in the mainline series. So if a person isn't understanding the basic storyline, they literally aren't paying a single bit of attention to what is going on. I sometimes get a feeling some individuals such as yourself give off a notion that NOTHING from Versus XIII made it into FFXV at the end of the day...which is just simply false. I don't get why individuals such as yourself complain about all the media formats with FFXV when you also mention Versus XIII. If you had done your research properly, you would have known that at one point in time Versus XIII was planned to span multiple games. Because of how little of FFXV was complete in combination with the time limit provided, the route taken was the best method for getting as much of the lore out as possible. Fitting all that lore into a single game would not have been possible, unless you like reading large segments of text like what was present in FFXIII (The datalogs got a decent amount of criticism over this back then). https://sea.ign.com/final-fantasy-v...-fantasy-xv-will-have-multiple-direct-sequels Even when the game was renamed to FFXV, there are still multiple websites that reported on Nomura mentioning sequel titles in regards to FFXV.
Not fully. The reality is Tabata played a major role in FFXV even releasing as a product. A lot of games that would have fallen under FFXV's status would have been canceled long long ago. But if you want to start pointing fingers, you at the very least should do it to ALL people that played a role in it. Point a finger at Nomura for moving the goal post multiple times. Blame SE for having bad PR with revealing Versus XIII far far too early.
Not fully. The reality is Tabata played a major role in FFXV even releasing as a product. A lot of games that would have fallen under FFXV's status would have been canceled long long ago. But if you want to start pointing fingers, you at the very least should do it to ALL people that played a role in it. Point a finger at Nomura for moving the goal post multiple times. Blame SE for having bad PR with revealing Versus XIII far far too early.
If you truly believe that Crisis Core's ending is just a fancier representation of Zack's death from the original FFVII, I'm not sure how any attempt at analysis you offer can be taken seriously.
FFVII depicted Zack as some guy in SOLDIER who died a stark and ignominious death at the hands of a few Shinra grunts while trying to take Cloud back to Midgar.
FFVII depicted Zack as a young man who recognized that the heroism he'd been pursuing didn't need anyone else's affirmation and went down in a literal blaze of glory, pouring out every last drop of his blood for a cause that was truly worth fighting for. And Tabata was the one who understood that the scene wouldn't be as powerful if it was overly-sanitized:
"In the end of Crisis Core, you see Zack Fair bleeding. There’s blood on his face and ears. In the beginning, however, there was no blood on him, and it looked too pretty. It didn’t click," Tabata said. "It ruined the moment. After further discussions with [fellow Square Enix director Tetsuya] Nomura we tried a different approach with that scene, and at the very end when you see Zack’s blood dripping on Cloud, that’s when the realism kicked in." [source]
It's worth pointing out that virtually the moment Sakaguchi left, X was followed by a sequel that undercut all of the weight of the heroes' choices and sacrifices.
FFVII depicted Zack as some guy in SOLDIER who died a stark and ignominious death at the hands of a few Shinra grunts while trying to take Cloud back to Midgar.
FFVII depicted Zack as a young man who recognized that the heroism he'd been pursuing didn't need anyone else's affirmation and went down in a literal blaze of glory, pouring out every last drop of his blood for a cause that was truly worth fighting for. And Tabata was the one who understood that the scene wouldn't be as powerful if it was overly-sanitized:
"In the end of Crisis Core, you see Zack Fair bleeding. There’s blood on his face and ears. In the beginning, however, there was no blood on him, and it looked too pretty. It didn’t click," Tabata said. "It ruined the moment. After further discussions with [fellow Square Enix director Tetsuya] Nomura we tried a different approach with that scene, and at the very end when you see Zack’s blood dripping on Cloud, that’s when the realism kicked in." [source]
It's worth pointing out that virtually the moment Sakaguchi left, X was followed by a sequel that undercut all of the weight of the heroes' choices and sacrifices.
3 things is more than enough, especially when today the only thing that you should need is the main game itself. And someone can bitch as much as he wants. LOL that you call others people opinion bitching. Says a lot about you...
Imo Brotherhood is boring and Kingsglaive is a confusing mess of video scenes and that is not only my opinion but the general opinion of the audience that saw the movie. Plus the game treats the movie like non existent...
Also, i would take any day multiple full fledged games from the creator of the game instead of movies, ova etc.
The reality is Tabata played a major role in FFXV releasing as a bad generally received game, with problems that most of Tabata's game suffer (bad story, bad dialogue, bad narrative and pace). What goal post Nomura changed multiple times? Was it Nomura's fault that SE never really gave him a proper team like they did with Tabata? The people that were working on Versus were FORCED to assist FFXIII and later basically save FFXIV. Nomura never had nor the people nor the support that Tabata had.
So basically SE was at fault for the troubled development and Tabata is at fault for a bad game.
I am not sure how what are you saying can be taken seriously. No matter how much you want to twist it, the ending of Crisis Core exists on the original FFVII. In Crisis Core is just more detailed, fancier and of course tries to make more impact since it's the ending. But back in the day when FFVII was released, it made as much impact as the ending of Crisis Core did. The thing that you try to make it seem like a Tabata revelation is hilarious and i don't understand the reason.
Again, Sakaguchi had nothing to do with FFX. Neither did the sequel, that wasn't made because Sakaguchi left the company as you imply. FFX-2 was made because of the reception of the extra movie of FFX International (that takes place some months after the main game), the fact that Square needed a quick cash grab game because of FF Spirits Within and because FFXII was taking ages. Stop acting like FF games stopped being impactful after Sakaguchi left, when even his FFs are the worst in the series.
Imo Brotherhood is boring and Kingsglaive is a confusing mess of video scenes and that is not only my opinion but the general opinion of the audience that saw the movie. Plus the game treats the movie like non existent...
Also, i would take any day multiple full fledged games from the creator of the game instead of movies, ova etc.
The reality is Tabata played a major role in FFXV releasing as a bad generally received game, with problems that most of Tabata's game suffer (bad story, bad dialogue, bad narrative and pace). What goal post Nomura changed multiple times? Was it Nomura's fault that SE never really gave him a proper team like they did with Tabata? The people that were working on Versus were FORCED to assist FFXIII and later basically save FFXIV. Nomura never had nor the people nor the support that Tabata had.
So basically SE was at fault for the troubled development and Tabata is at fault for a bad game.
I am not sure how what are you saying can be taken seriously. No matter how much you want to twist it, the ending of Crisis Core exists on the original FFVII. In Crisis Core is just more detailed, fancier and of course tries to make more impact since it's the ending. But back in the day when FFVII was released, it made as much impact as the ending of Crisis Core did. The thing that you try to make it seem like a Tabata revelation is hilarious and i don't understand the reason.
Again, Sakaguchi had nothing to do with FFX. Neither did the sequel, that wasn't made because Sakaguchi left the company as you imply. FFX-2 was made because of the reception of the extra movie of FFX International (that takes place some months after the main game), the fact that Square needed a quick cash grab game because of FF Spirits Within and because FFXII was taking ages. Stop acting like FF games stopped being impactful after Sakaguchi left, when even his FFs are the worst in the series.
In other words, you appear to be completely oblivious to the value of characterization, symbolism, and theme over and above bare plot. No wonder you have no love for Tabata's games.
[Citation needed]
My point about sequels is that Sakaguchi detested them, so it's... telling that they started being pushed the moment that he left the company.
And... which FFs are the worst in the series?
[Citation needed]
My point about sequels is that Sakaguchi detested them, so it's... telling that they started being pushed the moment that he left the company.
And... which FFs are the worst in the series?
You have no understanding of development hell, nor do you have an understanding of disc space limitations. In an idea world where time is never going to be a factor and disc space is infinite, yes multiple games could indeed be done at their own pace. Time is commonly a factor with any project. With more time it typically leads to an increase in costs, which in turn leads to more pressure for the product to hit bigger sales to be deemed a "success". In FFXV's case in particular, it lead to dev demoralization until Tabata was able to spark people. Yes, devs are people too, and not robots. I don't know who this audience is that you're referring too. Regardless on the other side of the coin there are people that got into FFXV BECAUSE they first consumed it through Kingsglaive and/or Brotherhood. Here's a reality: a lot of people that play games also watch anime/movies. In some regard this release format actually gave the product more marketing reach vs. if it was just a consolidated game alone. And yes, I have no problem calling the kettle black if it is indeed that. Unlike yourself and many others, I'm not going to spend my time complaining about a product I did not like for years to come. FFXV being a bad game...hmm that's very interesting head canon to me. If FFXV really was received as poorly as your head canon suggests, then there would have not been over a year worth of DLC content (some of that being free). People would have not been asking for more content to be created in regards to FFXV. Nomura did have support, he just lacked focus. https://www.polygon.com/2013/6/19/4...nal-fantasy-versus-13-became-final-fantasy-15
Regardless of hardware limitations his lack of focus has been discussed. Bazztek will correct me here, but if I recall right Roberto Ferrari (designer of Aranea WHICH BTW remained the same going into FFXV) was one of the individuals that discussed this topic area about Nomura.
Edit: While people do still love the Kingdom Hearts games, it is not uncommon that there is criticism toward the writing in the games. End edit
There's no promises you would have enjoyed a pure Nomura vision of FFXV better given the fact most of the general public never got to play it to any degree. It's fine that you don't like FFXV. This is nothing unique to this mainline game and will occur for all the mainline games. While FFXV does have short-comings and flaws, they certainly aren't to the extent you make them out to be. Just because a game was not catered to you, in this case FFXV, does not mean the product is automatically bad.
Regardless of hardware limitations his lack of focus has been discussed. Bazztek will correct me here, but if I recall right Roberto Ferrari (designer of Aranea WHICH BTW remained the same going into FFXV) was one of the individuals that discussed this topic area about Nomura.
Edit: While people do still love the Kingdom Hearts games, it is not uncommon that there is criticism toward the writing in the games. End edit
There's no promises you would have enjoyed a pure Nomura vision of FFXV better given the fact most of the general public never got to play it to any degree. It's fine that you don't like FFXV. This is nothing unique to this mainline game and will occur for all the mainline games. While FFXV does have short-comings and flaws, they certainly aren't to the extent you make them out to be. Just because a game was not catered to you, in this case FFXV, does not mean the product is automatically bad.
Last edited:
