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Personally I think the changes we are seeing were in place a long time ago around its switch to Final Fantasy XV. In game development stuff like character designs and story elements like Luna usually happen before physically creating the game. At least I think thats how it goes based off of other media creation and development. Also it just sounds like basic handling of a product within a company. Though I may be wrong, Im not a game developer after all. Although, thats why I thought it was interesting that a young Luna is portrayed in the E3 Reveal trailer.
I mean it must have been in place to a certain extant that she was a character back then. Nomura was still director too. Its all very interesting honestly.
I think they are just easing us in with the changes, perhaps thats why there is a bunch of reused footage in the trailers from E3 2013 onwards until Jump Festa 2015. Like Regis pointing his swords at Idola. (All the reused footage seems to be of him) It could be recycled footage from Versus XIII before they made the changes when it turned to XV. Hypothetical, though interesting to think about.
I mean it must have been in place to a certain extant that she was a character back then. Nomura was still director too. Its all very interesting honestly.
I think they are just easing us in with the changes, perhaps thats why there is a bunch of reused footage in the trailers from E3 2013 onwards until Jump Festa 2015. Like Regis pointing his swords at Idola. (All the reused footage seems to be of him) It could be recycled footage from Versus XIII before they made the changes when it turned to XV. Hypothetical, though interesting to think about.
Interesting points! I don't know whats going on I can fully admit that. I still think its fun to speculate as long as there is no hate.
Though I fully hope we will eventually know what happened to Final Fantasy Versus XIII, not because we are owed but because it would be nice and exciting to find out!!
Though I fully hope we will eventually know what happened to Final Fantasy Versus XIII, not because we are owed but because it would be nice and exciting to find out!!
The closer we get to this game I think we will get less hate and more hype
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zenobia and Luminous-Night
I agree. But even despite all the changes, i wanted to ask, what is it that you like about FFXV thus far? (besides music & visuals).
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Likes:
Luminous-Night
I don't hate Tabata, in fact, I quite admire the man's dedication. But I do think he does deserve criticism, because he's making a lot of odd comments lately and many contradictory statements concerning the game and it is frustrating to watch. I can understand the hate, even if I don't agree with it. I do feel frustrated by just how flippant the man is about the subject, while claiming that he didn't expect the fans to get so upset by the lack of news at Gamescom after him and SE made a big deal about revealing new information there. And if the game has been removed from the FNC subseries, it just further shows that, despite his attempts to stay in contact with the fans and please them, Tabata really doesn't seem to understand the fanbase.
That's just what I get from him, I don't think he really misunderstands the fanbase, but at the same time, I don't think many of his decisions have respected our intelligence that much. Many people figured out that Stella had been replaced with Luna months before it was revealed, but Tabata and SE remained quiet on it. So again, I understand the frustations of the fans.
As for what I like about the game, I can't really say. Most of it was stuff that was already there before Tabata took over, like the music and visuals and such, but as for the stuff that's in the game. I guess the gameplay is pretty refreshing and the dynamic between the characters we've been shown is fairly interesting.
That's just what I get from him, I don't think he really misunderstands the fanbase, but at the same time, I don't think many of his decisions have respected our intelligence that much. Many people figured out that Stella had been replaced with Luna months before it was revealed, but Tabata and SE remained quiet on it. So again, I understand the frustations of the fans.
As for what I like about the game, I can't really say. Most of it was stuff that was already there before Tabata took over, like the music and visuals and such, but as for the stuff that's in the game. I guess the gameplay is pretty refreshing and the dynamic between the characters we've been shown is fairly interesting.
@Luminous-Night
Very interesting post, I enjoyed it, thank you^^
So you said that Nomura could be the one who changed Stella/Luna?
Well Nomura wanted to have several titles of FF VXIII/XV, because of the big story, but it was still undecided. After Tabata directed the game, he wanted FF XV as a standalone title and regarding to this, the team had to as what I know, delete Stella.
Because Tabata said, Stellas original story was very complex and it didn't make any sense if they wanted to have a single game, so the team created an opposite character, Luna.
What I want to say is, it could be Tabata who "deleted" Stella, perhaps Nomura had to change her, because he was not allowed to make several titles about this game, we don't know when was it decided that FF XV has to be a single game, perhaps we will never know it.
Very interesting post, I enjoyed it, thank you^^
So you said that Nomura could be the one who changed Stella/Luna?
Well Nomura wanted to have several titles of FF VXIII/XV, because of the big story, but it was still undecided. After Tabata directed the game, he wanted FF XV as a standalone title and regarding to this, the team had to as what I know, delete Stella.
Because Tabata said, Stellas original story was very complex and it didn't make any sense if they wanted to have a single game, so the team created an opposite character, Luna.
What I want to say is, it could be Tabata who "deleted" Stella, perhaps Nomura had to change her, because he was not allowed to make several titles about this game, we don't know when was it decided that FF XV has to be a single game, perhaps we will never know it.
The point in the FFXV dev team deciding to move Final Fantasy XV out of the FNC series is so that they have a better idea that greatly involves something outside of the FNC lore (not related to the FNC lore basically), so that's why they made the choice.
And I don't understand why you're saying "if", Tabata said that the game is out of the FNC series so don't expect to see the FNC FF logo in the opening sequence of the game like with Type-0. This isn't the matter of opinions regarding this. This is fact.
He did say some elements from the FNC will be retained in FFXV but that's likely because those very elements fit's the overall story & themes the dev team is going for FFXV.
I'm trying to convince you to move on from Versus XIII. That was just an unfinished concept that didn't see the day of light until being reborn as Final Fantasy XV.
It's not his fault that he couldn't share it sooner. He's not flexible to make confirmations like that because of being restricted by the company itself. They have their plans. Mistakes happen, they learned from it.
Remember PAX Prime 2015? And how much better it was than Gamescom 2015?
Also, I initially thought that Luna is Stella's sister and many have thought the same or different so people's speculations were very polarizing at the time, not narrowed to just that.
Frustration will happen when anyone is waiting for their highly or one of their highly arguably anticipated game.
And I don't understand why you're saying "if", Tabata said that the game is out of the FNC series so don't expect to see the FNC FF logo in the opening sequence of the game like with Type-0. This isn't the matter of opinions regarding this. This is fact.
He did say some elements from the FNC will be retained in FFXV but that's likely because those very elements fit's the overall story & themes the dev team is going for FFXV.
I'm trying to convince you to move on from Versus XIII. That was just an unfinished concept that didn't see the day of light until being reborn as Final Fantasy XV.
It's not his fault that he couldn't share it sooner. He's not flexible to make confirmations like that because of being restricted by the company itself. They have their plans. Mistakes happen, they learned from it.
Remember PAX Prime 2015? And how much better it was than Gamescom 2015?
Also, I initially thought that Luna is Stella's sister and many have thought the same or different so people's speculations were very polarizing at the time, not narrowed to just that.
Frustration will happen when anyone is waiting for their highly or one of their highly arguably anticipated game.
What I mean is that Tabata doesn't deserve the hate, but he does deserve criticism for the things that he was directly responsible for. And yes, while he did say that elements from FNC were still in XV, that doesn't change that before it had not been the case. My point being that Tabata doesn't understand the fanbase wants clear answers to their questions, not statements that contradict each other every time he makes an interview. He has been making huge contradictions, such as Stella, the story, the mythos. Look at that interview and the new confirmation on the FNC to see my point. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.
And that's what I believe much of the frustration comes from. Tabata says that he wants to be more open with the fans, but almost ever other interview is filled with information that contradicts what he previously said. And yes, PAX Prime WAS a big improvement, but that doesn't stop my point that Tabata and SE didn't understand why people would be upset with Gamescom. That's what I mean by Tabata not understanding the fanbase. Yes, SE ultimately has control over what information can be revealed, but Tabata frequently hypes up that he'll reveal more and then doesn't. He said he would reveal more about Luna, but what he revealed still doesn't have anything to indicate that she is a strong female character. You said it yourself, Wazi, it's time that Tabata would just show and not tell about Luna and many of these things.
Also.... I never said anything about Versus XIII. I have accepted that the game won't see the light of day now that SE and Tabata have decided to go a different route. My criticisms were about Tabata and not how he's ruining Nomura's game. It's alright to criticize things you don't like about creators and what I don't like about Tabata is how contradictory he is and how he just refuses to give straight answers to questions that don't have restrictions on them. What those are, only he knows and that's why he should choose his words more carefully.
And lastly, I just need to ask this, but why is it that every time someone says anything remotely negative about Tabata, they get branded as being haters? Why is it okay to hate on Nomura and Toriyama, but not Tabata? I even said I don't hate him, I just said I don't like every decision he has made. What is wrong with that? Can you answer that for me?
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Uh... what contradictions about Stella? Please provide actual evidence to support this. I'm all for your opinion and viewpoint, but I actually need... evidence.
Can you provide examples.
He completely addressed the Gamescom concern at this event though, not sure what you are talking about.
What are you talking about? He literally just announced they would talk about Regis and Luna at TGS... He hasn't revealed anything about Luna further yet, so I don't get what you're talking about. Do you pay attention to the events or not?
How does he refuse to give straight answers? PR is a thing you can't answer every question, please give some examples as to what questions he does not give straight answers to.
Overall, I'm open to what you are saying, but just saying them isn't really enough for me to care about what you are saying. Tabata is certainly not bullet proof, my favorite director by far is Naoki Yoshida and I really enjoy Nomura's work as well. Tabata has yet to really prove himself to me... so as you can see I'm not a fanboy of him, nor do I think you are just a "hater" or something. I don't think anyone here really thinks that way either, I personally don't like Type-0 and think it's a bad game, so that works against Tabata in my opinion.
Please just provide instances of what you are talking about so that we can better understand your viewpoint, thank you.
Can you provide examples.
He completely addressed the Gamescom concern at this event though, not sure what you are talking about.
What are you talking about? He literally just announced they would talk about Regis and Luna at TGS... He hasn't revealed anything about Luna further yet, so I don't get what you're talking about. Do you pay attention to the events or not?
How does he refuse to give straight answers? PR is a thing you can't answer every question, please give some examples as to what questions he does not give straight answers to.
Overall, I'm open to what you are saying, but just saying them isn't really enough for me to care about what you are saying. Tabata is certainly not bullet proof, my favorite director by far is Naoki Yoshida and I really enjoy Nomura's work as well. Tabata has yet to really prove himself to me... so as you can see I'm not a fanboy of him, nor do I think you are just a "hater" or something. I don't think anyone here really thinks that way either, I personally don't like Type-0 and think it's a bad game, so that works against Tabata in my opinion.
Please just provide instances of what you are talking about so that we can better understand your viewpoint, thank you.
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Rezon
It's my opinion and you don't have to agree with it, but what I've read from all of his interviews, it makes me doubt him as a director. I would have preferred if they had just let Nomura finish the damn game, or at least hadn't removed him from the game completely. I don't see why Tabata was the best choice for this game, I mean, he's never done a console game before that I've seen and I've looked through his resume.
And PR is something, but saying the game still is part of the FNC series or the games story is still the same and then months later says "no, that's not the case anymore", that's different. He could just say "I can't talk about it" but he does and then he contradicts himself. Is it really that hard to just say "No, we just removed the series from the project" instead of "We won't use the terms l'Cie and Fal'Cie"? That's what it looks like to me.
This is what *I* get from it and I admit that I could be wrong. I'm just giving my opinions based on what I've seen and I did more research on it after I wrote those response, so I knew I got some stuff wrong. But at the same time, I can't get rid of the feeling that Tabata doesn't really know what the hell he is doing. Was it really necessary to alienate some fans by removing stuff that had been around from the beginning? That's what I'm saying, that Tabata might be pleasing many, but he's also upsetting many fans. And part of it is to do with how SE has always handled this game. This game was obviously never a priority to them until they decided to make it a main game and even then, it boggles my mind that they choose Tabata, whose expertise is in handheld games and not major games like this and not Nomura, who has had a major role with the series since VII. I did like Type-0, but even then I feel like that is a wasted opportunity because Tabata and SE didn't fully take advantage of turning the game into a PS4 and Xbox One game. And that's another reason I can't really get into XV, I feel like many of the things I was interested in, Tabata is ripping them out of the game. I really hope this game doesn't suck, I would hate that, I have been invested in this game since it was announced, but it's because of that that I find the development of it frustrating and I didn't find it frustrating until Tabata came onboard. Tabata says he wants to make a game that everyone is happy with, but he gets rid of things that people were already interested and he says he knew people were interested in Stella, but he still got rid of her. That's what I mean when I say he doesn't understand the fanbase. He doesn't understand that, even if the game wasn't close to being finished, there was still enough that we really wanted to play it, did changing those things that we were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?
I'm trying to get over it, but it's difficult because I can't get over how Tabata seems to just be so callous with what he discards from the original game.
And LeonBlade, I am trying to find the interviews I need to support my points, so you need to give me some time, it's difficult since there are so many.
And PR is something, but saying the game still is part of the FNC series or the games story is still the same and then months later says "no, that's not the case anymore", that's different. He could just say "I can't talk about it" but he does and then he contradicts himself. Is it really that hard to just say "No, we just removed the series from the project" instead of "We won't use the terms l'Cie and Fal'Cie"? That's what it looks like to me.
This is what *I* get from it and I admit that I could be wrong. I'm just giving my opinions based on what I've seen and I did more research on it after I wrote those response, so I knew I got some stuff wrong. But at the same time, I can't get rid of the feeling that Tabata doesn't really know what the hell he is doing. Was it really necessary to alienate some fans by removing stuff that had been around from the beginning? That's what I'm saying, that Tabata might be pleasing many, but he's also upsetting many fans. And part of it is to do with how SE has always handled this game. This game was obviously never a priority to them until they decided to make it a main game and even then, it boggles my mind that they choose Tabata, whose expertise is in handheld games and not major games like this and not Nomura, who has had a major role with the series since VII. I did like Type-0, but even then I feel like that is a wasted opportunity because Tabata and SE didn't fully take advantage of turning the game into a PS4 and Xbox One game. And that's another reason I can't really get into XV, I feel like many of the things I was interested in, Tabata is ripping them out of the game. I really hope this game doesn't suck, I would hate that, I have been invested in this game since it was announced, but it's because of that that I find the development of it frustrating and I didn't find it frustrating until Tabata came onboard. Tabata says he wants to make a game that everyone is happy with, but he gets rid of things that people were already interested and he says he knew people were interested in Stella, but he still got rid of her. That's what I mean when I say he doesn't understand the fanbase. He doesn't understand that, even if the game wasn't close to being finished, there was still enough that we really wanted to play it, did changing those things that we were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?
I'm trying to get over it, but it's difficult because I can't get over how Tabata seems to just be so callous with what he discards from the original game.
And LeonBlade, I am trying to find the interviews I need to support my points, so you need to give me some time, it's difficult since there are so many.
Yes, I just said that I know that about Versus XIII, but I'm also saying that even though it wasn't close to being completed, was it really necessary to completely start over from scratch? That's what I'm saying.
Maybe I am, but I am giving my personal thoughts on this subject, like the topic said. My thoughts are that while Tabata doesn't deserve all the hate, he certainly isn't culpable in anyway. Even if the game wasn't close to being finished, that doesn't mean he should have tossed what had been done before and start over, which is pretty much what he said he did.
Maybe I am, but I am giving my personal thoughts on this subject, like the topic said. My thoughts are that while Tabata doesn't deserve all the hate, he certainly isn't culpable in anyway. Even if the game wasn't close to being finished, that doesn't mean he should have tossed what had been done before and start over, which is pretty much what he said he did.
Yeah, but WHY?
There is a reason for why Nomura left the project that we will likely never see publicized. Honestly, you just need to look forward. As for Tabata being the best choice? Well... why not? He has directed games and that doesn't exclude him from console titles. He also worked with the FNC mythos in Type-0 so it made sense to put him on XV because of his involvement with that along with his involvement with Crisis Core which is another action game. That's why he was chosen, it makes sense to me.
Nomura originally said they didn't use the terms quite a while back l'Cie and Fal'Cie for example, this hasn't changed in quite some time. Over the long while now they said that XV would be disconnected from the FNC pretty much and they have done changes with story they probably just reconfirmed it completely in a recent interview or something. There's no lying here, it's simply just always been like this... the story premise is the same and has similar themes with what was originally here, but overall the lore and mythos has been removed. We've actually known this for quite some time now.
So... I don't get it... you just don't like the guy but don't really have a reason? Why doesn't he know what the hell he's doing, you have YET to provide any instance that shows he is bad at directing this game. You just keep saying he is lying or something and that somehow translates into his director skills.
Fresh blood? Also, Nomura was removed from the project and has his hands full with KHIII and now FFVII Remake. Again though... Nomura was removed from the project. They gave it to Tabata because he was most experienced in creating an action game outside of Nomura. Simple as that, not hard to understand this aspect of things.
See, I didn't like Type-0, I thought the combat was great but the story and characters were shit. I don't think that has anything to do with it being a console title.
Wait... what?! How is that related at all to Type-0 not being a console title? What...?! I'm genuinely confused here... How do you go from "Type-0 wasn't a console title it fell behind on potential" to "Tabata is removing things from XV" and there somehow is a correlation there.
Also, please provide EXAMPLES to what he is removing. I don't know why I have to make this point over and over again. What has Tabata exactly removed from the gameplay? So far, the only thing removed from gameplay from it's inception in Versus has been the switching of party members. What else... please...? Please...
Yeah, but you really haven't explained why yet. You just say you don't trust him and he lies about things but haven't really explained anything outside of the FNC thing which Nomura already stated before Tabata so I don't really see how that's relevant. Anything else like the Luna thing you are simply wrong which I already pointed out. So far you haven't shown any reason why, and again... not trying to blindly defend Tabata here, I have no investment in him or anything, just saying that I'm not going to take your word for it.
An opinion needs to be substantiated by talking points and references, not empty statements. Otherwise, I don't really think it qualifies as a valid opinion, more like an uneducated mindset.
Okay, so you have actually provided one example of something that was changed. I know that many people are annoyed about Stella, however I completely do not give a fuck about Stella. I don't know anything about Stella... I never have... I never likely will. We knew base details about Stella and that was it. There is a reason why Stella was removed, we've already heard the explanation as to why she was removed. Once we learn more about Luna, perhaps we will get more insight as to why she replaced Stella... maybe not... but honestly in the grand scheme of things, Stella was a concept of a character that never came to light. I understand being invested into a character, I'm not dissing anyone that was excited for Stella, I'm simply saying that there isn't really enough there.
Also, I don't agree with you speaking for the entire fanbase when you say "he doesn't understand the fanbase". Excuse me, but do you? I personally don't care about Stella being removed, am I not part of the fanbase?
I actually think this is so important I've made sure to highlight it as much as possible. You say that the game wasn't close to finish but there was enough that people wanted to play it. Yes, I can agree with that...
HOWEVER, you also say, "did changing those things that were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?". I don't know... do YOU know the answer to that yourself? Let me just say this again... do YOU know the answer to that yourself? I'm not repeating myself to mock you or anything, I'm putting stress on the idea that NO ONE KNOWS what is best for this game except for Square Enix and the people working on it, Tabata included.
It wasn't started over from scratch though... where do you get this impression?
WRONG, this is completely WRONG, he did NOT say he tossed everything aside and started over, that's completely and totally factually WRONG.
There is a reason for why Nomura left the project that we will likely never see publicized. Honestly, you just need to look forward. As for Tabata being the best choice? Well... why not? He has directed games and that doesn't exclude him from console titles. He also worked with the FNC mythos in Type-0 so it made sense to put him on XV because of his involvement with that along with his involvement with Crisis Core which is another action game. That's why he was chosen, it makes sense to me.
Nomura originally said they didn't use the terms quite a while back l'Cie and Fal'Cie for example, this hasn't changed in quite some time. Over the long while now they said that XV would be disconnected from the FNC pretty much and they have done changes with story they probably just reconfirmed it completely in a recent interview or something. There's no lying here, it's simply just always been like this... the story premise is the same and has similar themes with what was originally here, but overall the lore and mythos has been removed. We've actually known this for quite some time now.
So... I don't get it... you just don't like the guy but don't really have a reason? Why doesn't he know what the hell he's doing, you have YET to provide any instance that shows he is bad at directing this game. You just keep saying he is lying or something and that somehow translates into his director skills.
Fresh blood? Also, Nomura was removed from the project and has his hands full with KHIII and now FFVII Remake. Again though... Nomura was removed from the project. They gave it to Tabata because he was most experienced in creating an action game outside of Nomura. Simple as that, not hard to understand this aspect of things.
See, I didn't like Type-0, I thought the combat was great but the story and characters were shit. I don't think that has anything to do with it being a console title.
Wait... what?! How is that related at all to Type-0 not being a console title? What...?! I'm genuinely confused here... How do you go from "Type-0 wasn't a console title it fell behind on potential" to "Tabata is removing things from XV" and there somehow is a correlation there.
Also, please provide EXAMPLES to what he is removing. I don't know why I have to make this point over and over again. What has Tabata exactly removed from the gameplay? So far, the only thing removed from gameplay from it's inception in Versus has been the switching of party members. What else... please...? Please...
Yeah, but you really haven't explained why yet. You just say you don't trust him and he lies about things but haven't really explained anything outside of the FNC thing which Nomura already stated before Tabata so I don't really see how that's relevant. Anything else like the Luna thing you are simply wrong which I already pointed out. So far you haven't shown any reason why, and again... not trying to blindly defend Tabata here, I have no investment in him or anything, just saying that I'm not going to take your word for it.
An opinion needs to be substantiated by talking points and references, not empty statements. Otherwise, I don't really think it qualifies as a valid opinion, more like an uneducated mindset.
Okay, so you have actually provided one example of something that was changed. I know that many people are annoyed about Stella, however I completely do not give a fuck about Stella. I don't know anything about Stella... I never have... I never likely will. We knew base details about Stella and that was it. There is a reason why Stella was removed, we've already heard the explanation as to why she was removed. Once we learn more about Luna, perhaps we will get more insight as to why she replaced Stella... maybe not... but honestly in the grand scheme of things, Stella was a concept of a character that never came to light. I understand being invested into a character, I'm not dissing anyone that was excited for Stella, I'm simply saying that there isn't really enough there.
Also, I don't agree with you speaking for the entire fanbase when you say "he doesn't understand the fanbase". Excuse me, but do you? I personally don't care about Stella being removed, am I not part of the fanbase?
I actually think this is so important I've made sure to highlight it as much as possible. You say that the game wasn't close to finish but there was enough that people wanted to play it. Yes, I can agree with that...
HOWEVER, you also say, "did changing those things that were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?". I don't know... do YOU know the answer to that yourself? Let me just say this again... do YOU know the answer to that yourself? I'm not repeating myself to mock you or anything, I'm putting stress on the idea that NO ONE KNOWS what is best for this game except for Square Enix and the people working on it, Tabata included.
It wasn't started over from scratch though... where do you get this impression?
WRONG, this is completely WRONG, he did NOT say he tossed everything aside and started over, that's completely and totally factually WRONG.
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Mistwalker, Rezon and Koozek
LeonBlade. I have no idea why apparently I can't give an idea why I feel like this without you saying I'm wrong. Because, I feel like no matter what I say, you're going to say I'm wrong.
But you want a reason for why I dislike Tabata? Even though I said I don't like his decisions? That's why. I don't like his decisions, I don't think he was qualified to take over this game, especially since there were more experienced directors who could have done so, but SE wanted him to do it for whatever reason. I dislike that he removed things from the game that he knew people were interested in, like Stella. He rubs me the wrong way with his changes, that is my point. What part of that is so hard to understand? Why do I have to be wrong and yet you can be right, that's what you're saying. That I'm wrong because this is what I took out of it. Maybe I am, but how dare you accuse me of saying I have no reason when I gave plenty of reasons I don't like Tabata.
I said I don't like his decisions, but that I could be wrong. But according to you, I'm blindly hating on him even though I said I don't. And it does seem like it's starting starting over from scratch. Since he said "Now that I'm director, you can consider this as us starting over" paraphrased, but that is basically what he said. And from that it is easy to assume that is what he means.
And when I said "did changing those things that were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?" I did not say I knew the answer. Because I don't. I was bringing up the possibility that maybe it did, maybe it didn't. But we'll never know because he changed it. How hard is that to understand?
And Wazi, I do want to take it easy, but it seems be very difficult right now. At least in this discussion.
So you know what, I'm done with this conversation. Obviously it doesn't matter what I say, even though I said some nice things about Tabata, such as liking the gameplay he came up with, because apparently I just don't like Tabata for no reason, according to some people.
But you want a reason for why I dislike Tabata? Even though I said I don't like his decisions? That's why. I don't like his decisions, I don't think he was qualified to take over this game, especially since there were more experienced directors who could have done so, but SE wanted him to do it for whatever reason. I dislike that he removed things from the game that he knew people were interested in, like Stella. He rubs me the wrong way with his changes, that is my point. What part of that is so hard to understand? Why do I have to be wrong and yet you can be right, that's what you're saying. That I'm wrong because this is what I took out of it. Maybe I am, but how dare you accuse me of saying I have no reason when I gave plenty of reasons I don't like Tabata.
I said I don't like his decisions, but that I could be wrong. But according to you, I'm blindly hating on him even though I said I don't. And it does seem like it's starting starting over from scratch. Since he said "Now that I'm director, you can consider this as us starting over" paraphrased, but that is basically what he said. And from that it is easy to assume that is what he means.
And when I said "did changing those things that were interested really ensure the game would be at its very best?" I did not say I knew the answer. Because I don't. I was bringing up the possibility that maybe it did, maybe it didn't. But we'll never know because he changed it. How hard is that to understand?
And Wazi, I do want to take it easy, but it seems be very difficult right now. At least in this discussion.
So you know what, I'm done with this conversation. Obviously it doesn't matter what I say, even though I said some nice things about Tabata, such as liking the gameplay he came up with, because apparently I just don't like Tabata for no reason, according to some people.
I have only said you were wrong when you were factually wrong. I have never said your opinions are wrong, Most of what I've asked for was examples of your viewpoint so that I could better understand what message you were trying to get across.
Also, for someone who wants the game to be good, my purpose in asking these questions is to try and ease your mind about things and inform you on aspects that you might not truly understand. It's not about being right or wrong here, it's about clearing up confusion and debating opinions. This is a forum after all, a place to discuss each other's opinions, my point of replying to you with your individual talking points is not to say "I'm right you are wrong", it's to question you on your view point and to make it a discussion.
I was asking what decisions you were referring to, you have provided one instance with Stella but that was it. I don't think you understood my intent. I was asking you to provide examples of what you mean. For example, the Stella point was an example and that was something I could go off of, and I responded accordingly. If you said, I don't like the change they made with combat because it's too weighted, then I could actually agree with you in some ways. However, you have not made any of these sort of statements, and so I simply asked you what you meant... that's all.
Yes, which is why I asked you what else he removed that you didn't like. You mentioned Stella, which is good that is one thing you wanted to say and I agree that many people care about her, so I voiced my opinion how I personally felt about Stella. This is a discussion of course, not a contest, my opinion is just as valid as yours. If you cared about Stella and I didn't, it doesn't mean one of us is right and one is wrong, we have our own viewpoints and our own way of how we value things. If you care about Stella, that's good because it's something you care about. I simply asked for more examples of these things that you say Tabata changed.
You didn't though, you said you don't like his changes but didn't specify. Did you miss that part of what I said. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, I'm just saying that you should probably back it up with examples. Again, if you don't like the change to combat, simply say that you don't like the change to combat. If you were looking forward to party switching, say that! I'm asking for examples, not refuting and dismissing you!
I never said you hated him, I never used the word hate in my comments. All I'm doing is asking for examples of your opinions so I know what you are talking about. I never once said "blindly hating", the only time I used the word "blindly" is when I said that I, myself, am not blindly defending Tabata.
Thank you for your example of what you meant by this, now I can understand what you mean by "starting over". I think you misinterpreted what he meant by that though. When Tabata said "start over" he meant in terms of development time, as many fans have been waiting since 2006 for the game and have seen the long development time as a problem. Tabata was simply stating to think of this as a fresh start for development and not to look back at the years prior as development time, but to look at it starting new in terms of time invested in the project, as many things changed like the switch to PS4.
However, there were some changes to the story and some characters, that is not at all debatable, we will learn more about Luna and Regis at TGS, so maybe we can get some insight into some of those changes there.
Well, to be honest, because I don't really understand your intentions, that is my fault for not picking up on your choice to not answer as a way of you saying that you yourself don't know. I apologize for this. I said this because it seems like a way of dismissing Tabata, however you were meaning it literally, again, I apologize for this.
It does matter what you say, we are all here for discussion with each other whether we agree or not. Do not misunderstand my posts. I am simply giving my viewpoint and was just asking for further evidence to support your claims and your opinions. We ALL have the right to speak our minds on these forums. At the end of the day, whether we agree or disagree, no one should ever feel like they are being shut down or silenced by other members, that is NOT what I am about. I am all for expression of one's opinions and viewpoints, and I will never tell anyone that they aren't allowed to speak against me or anyone in general.
I apologize that you got the wrong intention from my messages, I hope you understand what I was doing and see that I simply wanted you to explain your position and responding to what I disagreed with. I have an opinion too, you know? I may disagree with you and make points against you, that is not me shutting you up or silencing you, that is just me voicing my opinion against what you are saying or trying to extract information from you for discussion purposes.
The only time I said you were wrong factually was with Tabata starting from scratch, and I did back that up, but perhaps not enough. What I meant was, the core game is still there, it's not like this is an entirely new game with no connections in any way, those exist... and so that's all I was trying to say. I use bold and caps to emphasize my points, not to try and intimidate and shut people down. So I hope you understand.
One last time, I do apologize for the misunderstanding, I hope you understand my intentions. Please do not feel like you cannot voice your opinion. At the end of the day, we all have our problems with things (myself included) and we should all be allowed to say them.
Haha, that sounds very cultish, but in a way sort of true. It's more about trying to put things in a positive perspective and to quell any negative ideas with facts or counterarguments or positive viewpoints. I'm not someone who likes to be pecimistic and very negative. However, at the same time, I don't agree with being completely positive either. I have had my share of anger against PR with XV just like anyone else, and I think it's good to be somewhere in the middle. As we all are fans of XV and looking forward to it, my position is that we should be on the positive end of things.
As you say, it's not about being right or wrong, it's just about discussion.
Also, for someone who wants the game to be good, my purpose in asking these questions is to try and ease your mind about things and inform you on aspects that you might not truly understand. It's not about being right or wrong here, it's about clearing up confusion and debating opinions. This is a forum after all, a place to discuss each other's opinions, my point of replying to you with your individual talking points is not to say "I'm right you are wrong", it's to question you on your view point and to make it a discussion.
I was asking what decisions you were referring to, you have provided one instance with Stella but that was it. I don't think you understood my intent. I was asking you to provide examples of what you mean. For example, the Stella point was an example and that was something I could go off of, and I responded accordingly. If you said, I don't like the change they made with combat because it's too weighted, then I could actually agree with you in some ways. However, you have not made any of these sort of statements, and so I simply asked you what you meant... that's all.
Yes, which is why I asked you what else he removed that you didn't like. You mentioned Stella, which is good that is one thing you wanted to say and I agree that many people care about her, so I voiced my opinion how I personally felt about Stella. This is a discussion of course, not a contest, my opinion is just as valid as yours. If you cared about Stella and I didn't, it doesn't mean one of us is right and one is wrong, we have our own viewpoints and our own way of how we value things. If you care about Stella, that's good because it's something you care about. I simply asked for more examples of these things that you say Tabata changed.
You didn't though, you said you don't like his changes but didn't specify. Did you miss that part of what I said. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, I'm just saying that you should probably back it up with examples. Again, if you don't like the change to combat, simply say that you don't like the change to combat. If you were looking forward to party switching, say that! I'm asking for examples, not refuting and dismissing you!
I never said you hated him, I never used the word hate in my comments. All I'm doing is asking for examples of your opinions so I know what you are talking about. I never once said "blindly hating", the only time I used the word "blindly" is when I said that I, myself, am not blindly defending Tabata.
Thank you for your example of what you meant by this, now I can understand what you mean by "starting over". I think you misinterpreted what he meant by that though. When Tabata said "start over" he meant in terms of development time, as many fans have been waiting since 2006 for the game and have seen the long development time as a problem. Tabata was simply stating to think of this as a fresh start for development and not to look back at the years prior as development time, but to look at it starting new in terms of time invested in the project, as many things changed like the switch to PS4.
However, there were some changes to the story and some characters, that is not at all debatable, we will learn more about Luna and Regis at TGS, so maybe we can get some insight into some of those changes there.
Well, to be honest, because I don't really understand your intentions, that is my fault for not picking up on your choice to not answer as a way of you saying that you yourself don't know. I apologize for this. I said this because it seems like a way of dismissing Tabata, however you were meaning it literally, again, I apologize for this.
It does matter what you say, we are all here for discussion with each other whether we agree or not. Do not misunderstand my posts. I am simply giving my viewpoint and was just asking for further evidence to support your claims and your opinions. We ALL have the right to speak our minds on these forums. At the end of the day, whether we agree or disagree, no one should ever feel like they are being shut down or silenced by other members, that is NOT what I am about. I am all for expression of one's opinions and viewpoints, and I will never tell anyone that they aren't allowed to speak against me or anyone in general.
I apologize that you got the wrong intention from my messages, I hope you understand what I was doing and see that I simply wanted you to explain your position and responding to what I disagreed with. I have an opinion too, you know? I may disagree with you and make points against you, that is not me shutting you up or silencing you, that is just me voicing my opinion against what you are saying or trying to extract information from you for discussion purposes.
The only time I said you were wrong factually was with Tabata starting from scratch, and I did back that up, but perhaps not enough. What I meant was, the core game is still there, it's not like this is an entirely new game with no connections in any way, those exist... and so that's all I was trying to say. I use bold and caps to emphasize my points, not to try and intimidate and shut people down. So I hope you understand.
One last time, I do apologize for the misunderstanding, I hope you understand my intentions. Please do not feel like you cannot voice your opinion. At the end of the day, we all have our problems with things (myself included) and we should all be allowed to say them.
Haha, that sounds very cultish, but in a way sort of true. It's more about trying to put things in a positive perspective and to quell any negative ideas with facts or counterarguments or positive viewpoints. I'm not someone who likes to be pecimistic and very negative. However, at the same time, I don't agree with being completely positive either. I have had my share of anger against PR with XV just like anyone else, and I think it's good to be somewhere in the middle. As we all are fans of XV and looking forward to it, my position is that we should be on the positive end of things.
As you say, it's not about being right or wrong, it's just about discussion.
Likes:
Wazi the pa
So basically you don't like Tabata because he isn't Nomura even if the latter proved uncapable of advancing his game substantially over six years of development. And also you don't like Tabata because he is working XV and not Versus XIII, even if the former is a game we'll be able to play and the latter was little more than ideas and concepts.
What sense does that make? Does everybody here think the same?
I understand this comes from the frustation of a lot of ideas from the Versus XIII era been tossed away or modified, but I'd give Tabata a chance beforse saying I don't like him, and I'd give XV a chance as well before saying it is a lesser game than what Versus XIII never reached to be (because that game never existed in the end, but XV exists).
Edit: Oh, and please NemesisSp don't take this on a personal level, because this same message I'd like to send to everyone who's hating this game just because it isn't a game noone ever played because it was just an idea that never came to fruition. And that amuses me. It's a very interesting think to look at from here.
What sense does that make? Does everybody here think the same?
I understand this comes from the frustation of a lot of ideas from the Versus XIII era been tossed away or modified, but I'd give Tabata a chance beforse saying I don't like him, and I'd give XV a chance as well before saying it is a lesser game than what Versus XIII never reached to be (because that game never existed in the end, but XV exists).
Edit: Oh, and please NemesisSp don't take this on a personal level, because this same message I'd like to send to everyone who's hating this game just because it isn't a game noone ever played because it was just an idea that never came to fruition. And that amuses me. It's a very interesting think to look at from here.
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AnGer-dono and LeonBlade