Members see less ads - sign up now for free and join the community!
-
This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
From what I've seen the bar, very noticeably, charges a lot more whenever I take damage. I only played through the demo 5 times and I haven't had time to be able to experiment further but my limit breaks charged way faster on my first two runs when I was taking more damage and by my 4th run I just barely got my limit break towards the very end of the fight when I was performing a lot better with less damage being taken. This prompted me to run into the Scorpion mech's big attacks as both Barret and Cloud and sure enough the LB bar charged up way faster. It's just a very weird design choice to me that if staggering and dealing damage does charge the limit breaks that it does so far less efficiently compared to when you're just getting smacked around.
That was one of my guesses but I hadn't had time to replay and confirm it. That is pretty bad, it reduces the incentive to go into Punisher mode by quite a lot unless you absolutely need to use the counter block for some reason. This is still early game Cloud so I won't write it off completely just yet but I'm hoping that there are skill upgrades that incentivize it more later on.
Thing is though that the telegraphs are only a split second long and the combat, even if trying to be more resource management based, is definitely paced more like a traditional action game. Unless they slow down combat the lack of i-frames is a problem cuz 9 times out of 10 you're gonna get hit with that AOE attack that you're trying to get clear of. So they've got two choices here. Either slow down the pacing of combat and ruin the momentum of gameplay or implement some i-frames so players don't get clipped by the very edge of an AOE attack every single time which disrupts the flow of combat and punishes you even when you're trying to back off at the right times.
Out those two choices I'd rather have some i-frames especially considering there's no jumping option in the game to aid with getting out of the range of certain attacks. All dodge mechanics are positioning tools at the end of the day so I feel like that's a moot point because even if you wanna use that as a counterpoint then I don't think it's very good as just a positioning tool either as it just doesn't have nearly enough range on it to really matter in boss fights with big sweeping attacks while blocking still lets damage seep through. Cancelling out of combos doesn't seem to be a thing either but I need to play again to confirm that.
Anyways I feel like the combat system is kinda stepping all over itself atm with the defensive options not being that great while the game encourages you to get in close to build up ATB to utilize most of your most useful action commands. The combat is like 90% there and I can feel the potential for something truly great but it just needs a few minor tweaks to get all the way there. Of course this is still a demo so these issues can always be addressed in the full game via patches but for now I think they're things worth addressing.
That was one of my guesses but I hadn't had time to replay and confirm it. That is pretty bad, it reduces the incentive to go into Punisher mode by quite a lot unless you absolutely need to use the counter block for some reason. This is still early game Cloud so I won't write it off completely just yet but I'm hoping that there are skill upgrades that incentivize it more later on.
Thing is though that the telegraphs are only a split second long and the combat, even if trying to be more resource management based, is definitely paced more like a traditional action game. Unless they slow down combat the lack of i-frames is a problem cuz 9 times out of 10 you're gonna get hit with that AOE attack that you're trying to get clear of. So they've got two choices here. Either slow down the pacing of combat and ruin the momentum of gameplay or implement some i-frames so players don't get clipped by the very edge of an AOE attack every single time which disrupts the flow of combat and punishes you even when you're trying to back off at the right times.
Out those two choices I'd rather have some i-frames especially considering there's no jumping option in the game to aid with getting out of the range of certain attacks. All dodge mechanics are positioning tools at the end of the day so I feel like that's a moot point because even if you wanna use that as a counterpoint then I don't think it's very good as just a positioning tool either as it just doesn't have nearly enough range on it to really matter in boss fights with big sweeping attacks while blocking still lets damage seep through. Cancelling out of combos doesn't seem to be a thing either but I need to play again to confirm that.
Anyways I feel like the combat system is kinda stepping all over itself atm with the defensive options not being that great while the game encourages you to get in close to build up ATB to utilize most of your most useful action commands. The combat is like 90% there and I can feel the potential for something truly great but it just needs a few minor tweaks to get all the way there. Of course this is still a demo so these issues can always be addressed in the full game via patches but for now I think they're things worth addressing.
The reason why using evade breaks you out of Punisher mode is because Punisher mode slows down your movement and puts you into a tactical stance. If you evade away, you put your guard down. It's a trade off. It also is free to go back into Punisher mode, so it's really not an issue in any way.
While in Punisher mode, you also can counter any attack by guarding and that allows you to stagger enemies like Shock Troopers which is really cool. You have to trade off positioning for this enhanced form.
Something important to remember, this is NOT a typical action RPG combat system. Don't expect to be able to dodge incoming damage freely like you can in other games. As someone else pointed out, evade is really about positioning or avoiding telegraphed attacks like Guard Scorpion's point blank AoE.
Guard is used just like it's used in the original, it's to help mitigate incoming damage, couple that with the counter attack while in Punisher mode and you have different ways to deal with incoming damage for Cloud in the demo. Barret has Steel Skin which also gives him a defensive buff which allows him to take a bigger beating.
I don't see any problems at all with defensive options because this game you are going to be taking damage unless it's avoidable. That's just the nature of the game, that's how FFVII played as well. You didn't dodge out of the way of incoming attacks. There is however Materia in the game which can change how the combat flows with evasion like Deathly Dodge which will add attacks when evading and things like that.
Ultimately, it's better to judge the combat system when you get the full game, or to look at the press footage in how combat will be played out. It's really about managing ATB between party members, using your character's unique abilities and playstyles to deal damage. There's also going to be weapon specific abilities that you can master to use on other weapons that augment how you play the game.
As for Limit Break gauge filling, people must not remember that it's the same as the original game. You gain limit break faster by getting attacked and not dealing damage. FFX broke this mold by allowing you to change how you would fill the Overdrive. Some of you question why you're not rewarded by doing a lot of damage, and you're kind of missing the point. That's exactly why you're not rewarded with Limit Break. You're doing more damage than someone else who is taking by far more incoming damage.
Playing the game successfully in that you are avoiding damage and doing a lot more damage yourself means that your Limit Break isn't needed. Whereas, if you're taking a lot of damage, you're not mitigating it or not avoiding AoEs you are taking a beating and need to spend ATB to heal up or put up buffs. This means that in order to compensate you for your lack of damage, the game rewards you with increased limit gauge where then you spend on a big attack.
In the original game, you also had ways to augment the gauge with a give and take system (fury and sadness status ailments). It's possible there's a way to augment this in the remake, but we'll have to see.
Ultimately, I think the combat is the best hybrid system of action and strategic combat. I think taking away the focus on a pure action game allows it to feel comfortable to fans who wanted a more turn based system. But, also, in doing so it really brings VIIR's combat system into its own and gives you a great deal of things to do and make combat feel busy and not just a slog of mashing buttons... something that XV suffers from greatly.
I'm super excited to get my hands on the full game with Materia, weapon upgrades and abilities. For people who haven't seen it, you should definitely check out the Air Buster fight where you get a good sense of how dynamic a boss fight is in this game. They even split up the party like in the original and you have moments where Barret needs to do damage to bring the boss back into range for the melee fighters Tifa and Cloud get to do damage before it spits fire out and moves away again. Maximizing your time on the boss while you can... it's just amazing. I could go on forever, but I think I'll end it here before I rant on some more.
While in Punisher mode, you also can counter any attack by guarding and that allows you to stagger enemies like Shock Troopers which is really cool. You have to trade off positioning for this enhanced form.
Something important to remember, this is NOT a typical action RPG combat system. Don't expect to be able to dodge incoming damage freely like you can in other games. As someone else pointed out, evade is really about positioning or avoiding telegraphed attacks like Guard Scorpion's point blank AoE.
Guard is used just like it's used in the original, it's to help mitigate incoming damage, couple that with the counter attack while in Punisher mode and you have different ways to deal with incoming damage for Cloud in the demo. Barret has Steel Skin which also gives him a defensive buff which allows him to take a bigger beating.
I don't see any problems at all with defensive options because this game you are going to be taking damage unless it's avoidable. That's just the nature of the game, that's how FFVII played as well. You didn't dodge out of the way of incoming attacks. There is however Materia in the game which can change how the combat flows with evasion like Deathly Dodge which will add attacks when evading and things like that.
Ultimately, it's better to judge the combat system when you get the full game, or to look at the press footage in how combat will be played out. It's really about managing ATB between party members, using your character's unique abilities and playstyles to deal damage. There's also going to be weapon specific abilities that you can master to use on other weapons that augment how you play the game.
As for Limit Break gauge filling, people must not remember that it's the same as the original game. You gain limit break faster by getting attacked and not dealing damage. FFX broke this mold by allowing you to change how you would fill the Overdrive. Some of you question why you're not rewarded by doing a lot of damage, and you're kind of missing the point. That's exactly why you're not rewarded with Limit Break. You're doing more damage than someone else who is taking by far more incoming damage.
Playing the game successfully in that you are avoiding damage and doing a lot more damage yourself means that your Limit Break isn't needed. Whereas, if you're taking a lot of damage, you're not mitigating it or not avoiding AoEs you are taking a beating and need to spend ATB to heal up or put up buffs. This means that in order to compensate you for your lack of damage, the game rewards you with increased limit gauge where then you spend on a big attack.
In the original game, you also had ways to augment the gauge with a give and take system (fury and sadness status ailments). It's possible there's a way to augment this in the remake, but we'll have to see.
Ultimately, I think the combat is the best hybrid system of action and strategic combat. I think taking away the focus on a pure action game allows it to feel comfortable to fans who wanted a more turn based system. But, also, in doing so it really brings VIIR's combat system into its own and gives you a great deal of things to do and make combat feel busy and not just a slog of mashing buttons... something that XV suffers from greatly.
I'm super excited to get my hands on the full game with Materia, weapon upgrades and abilities. For people who haven't seen it, you should definitely check out the Air Buster fight where you get a good sense of how dynamic a boss fight is in this game. They even split up the party like in the original and you have moments where Barret needs to do damage to bring the boss back into range for the melee fighters Tifa and Cloud get to do damage before it spits fire out and moves away again. Maximizing your time on the boss while you can... it's just amazing. I could go on forever, but I think I'll end it here before I rant on some more.
https://twinfinite.net/2020/03/final-fantasy-vii-remake-costumes/
"since Midgar is quite big, there are areas you travel by vehicle."
Holy shit YES! i hope this means free travel instead of travelling only through set-pieces but this is a good sign
Edit
https://powerup-gaming.com/2020/03/...-returning-to-final-fantasy-7-after-23-years/
this is also an interesting interview, Kitase says AC was somehow important to the remake's development vision.
"since Midgar is quite big, there are areas you travel by vehicle."
Holy shit YES! i hope this means free travel instead of travelling only through set-pieces but this is a good sign
Edit
https://powerup-gaming.com/2020/03/...-returning-to-final-fantasy-7-after-23-years/
this is also an interesting interview, Kitase says AC was somehow important to the remake's development vision.
Last edited:
https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fa...work-on-the-story-for-the-rest-of-his-career/
Wth, how about including remaking other titles on the roadmap as well...
Wth, how about including remaking other titles on the roadmap as well...
Likes:
Noctis_Caelum and Cloud_CR
Now that everyone is talking about de combat system, I think is a good idea to remember this old new.
https://www.gematsu.com/2017/02/fin...oshinori-kitase-talks-progress-weekly-famitsu
https://www.gematsu.com/2017/02/fin...oshinori-kitase-talks-progress-weekly-famitsu
You may havent but whenever people bring up Mitsunori and KH2 together in the same text they make an (indirect) statement about the supposed quality of gameplay on whatever game he's involve. I have seen this for years.
Last edited:
Likes:
Cloud_CR and Storm
As someone who was hoping for this and endlessly replayed the motorcycle mission via the Gold Saucer in the OG FFVII the idea getting to cruise through Midgar on a bike is a dream come true. Hopefully there's vehicle combat involved in said travels too.
Also in regards to AC I'm assuming he's referring to the feel of the combat with all those lightning fast swings of the Buster Sword from Cloud, they probably referenced the movie a lot while animating the combat. I also personally think it most likely refers to the greater emphasis on Cloud's beef with Sephiroth. In the original FFVII him and Sephiroth had an obviously antagonistic relationship but it kinda felt like Cloud was a blip on his radar and Sephiroth treated him like any other test subject involved in the "reunion" until the very end. Then in Advent Children he's hyper fixated on Cloud like nothing else matters.
Probably makes sense to make Sephiroth's personal hatred of Cloud more emphasized from the get go since Cloud already skewered him once. Kinda makes it less random that he hates Cloud so much in AC for ruining his plans when he didn't really seem to feel so strongly about him after Cloud ruined his plans the first time.
Also in regards to AC I'm assuming he's referring to the feel of the combat with all those lightning fast swings of the Buster Sword from Cloud, they probably referenced the movie a lot while animating the combat. I also personally think it most likely refers to the greater emphasis on Cloud's beef with Sephiroth. In the original FFVII him and Sephiroth had an obviously antagonistic relationship but it kinda felt like Cloud was a blip on his radar and Sephiroth treated him like any other test subject involved in the "reunion" until the very end. Then in Advent Children he's hyper fixated on Cloud like nothing else matters.
Probably makes sense to make Sephiroth's personal hatred of Cloud more emphasized from the get go since Cloud already skewered him once. Kinda makes it less random that he hates Cloud so much in AC for ruining his plans when he didn't really seem to feel so strongly about him after Cloud ruined his plans the first time.
Likes:
Storm
I'm not calling the dynamic nature of combat into question and I also acknowledged that the full release will most certainly have more to it as this is just a demo. Just stating the things that I personally took issue with. Again, all dodges are positioning tools at the end of the day but if I'm going to get clipped regardless of whether or not I use it then it's not a good positioning tool imo.
Anyways, like I said, my bad if I sounded like a Debbie downer. I was just giving my initial impressions. I'm already fine with some of the other aspects I mentioned having an issue with now that I've had more time to replay and understand the system more. You're right in that there's all sorts of Materia that have yet to be factored in so there is also that to consider. That's all I'll really say in regards to combat for now I guess. Either way I'm still eagerly awaiting release and am excited as all hell for the game.
Anyways, like I said, my bad if I sounded like a Debbie downer. I was just giving my initial impressions. I'm already fine with some of the other aspects I mentioned having an issue with now that I've had more time to replay and understand the system more. You're right in that there's all sorts of Materia that have yet to be factored in so there is also that to consider. That's all I'll really say in regards to combat for now I guess. Either way I'm still eagerly awaiting release and am excited as all hell for the game.
Just a heads-up regarding the boss battle and its attacks.
It's much easier to react not to Scorpion's telegraphs via animation (although possible, it's often really tight), but the name of the attack he's readying highlighted above his healthbar.
It comes off way in advance so you can react easily.
It's much easier to react not to Scorpion's telegraphs via animation (although possible, it's often really tight), but the name of the attack he's readying highlighted above his healthbar.
It comes off way in advance so you can react easily.
Likes:
CloudBuster and Storm