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Even if he was not removed the final product would still not had been what he initially planned because time, budget and hardware would still demand for compromise.
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On this day (July 9th), Kingsglaive: Final Fantasy XV, the CGI supplementary movie of XV premiered on japanese cinnemas. Man, time flies by withouth noticing.
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On this day (July 9th), Kingsglaive: Final Fantasy XV, the CGI supplementary movie of XV premiered on japanese cinnemas. Man, time flies by withouth noticing.
Likes:
Storm and Lord_Ham_Mork
I'm not working on it now but I have saved a Kingsglaive model of Luna and I'm trying to see if I can place that on the game Luna because when I was introduced to this series I was introduced through Kingsglaive.
Those stories just didn't really connect for me. The girl from Kingsglaive didn't go to altissia, we never saw her with Pryna. When you really picture it in your mind..
They both give off different vibes. I just can't imagine the girl from the movie sitting in a chair crying to her brother, in the movie she seemed kind of uninterested while her brother was in a near death situation, I just want to see how the scenes would look if I transferred it over.
Those stories just didn't really connect for me. The girl from Kingsglaive didn't go to altissia, we never saw her with Pryna. When you really picture it in your mind..
They both give off different vibes. I just can't imagine the girl from the movie sitting in a chair crying to her brother, in the movie she seemed kind of uninterested while her brother was in a near death situation, I just want to see how the scenes would look if I transferred it over.
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Likes:
Lord_Ham_Mork
So I had a new thought regarding the question of what Aera knew when:
Given that Ardyn's soul was apparently trapped in the Crystal when he touched it, it seems most reasonable that the vision Ardyn received from Ifrit of his face in the Crystal reflected that (rather than, as he assumed, demonstrating that he was truly meant to be King).
With that as a starting point, everything strange about Episode Ardyn and its Prologue falls into place:
Why does Aera seem disturbed by the revelation she received? Because she knows that Ardyn has been chosen to suffer rather than to rule.
Why does Aera choose to have Somnus announce that Ardyn was chosen as King? Because she, like Somnus, knows that's the only reason why Ardyn would return to the palace given Somnus' hostility.
Why not tell Somnus that Ardyn was meant to be absorbed into the Crystal and would shortly be out of his way? Perhaps she did! Either Somnus' aggression towards the Scourge was so great that he couldn't bear the thought of the Crystal absorbing someone who'd been corrupted by it, or Aera realized that was possible and thought (wrongly) that he would be less likely to try anything stupid if he thought that Ardyn was under the protection of the Astrals.
Why does Aera throw herself in front of Ardyn when Somnus attacks him? Apart from her love for him, she probably saw it as her duty to ensure that he reached the Crystal and fulfilled his destiny.
Why was Ardyn rejected by the Crystal? Because he was never meant to be King in the first place.
Why does Ardyn assume that both Aera and Somnus knew the truth about his role? Because they probably did.
Given that Ardyn's soul was apparently trapped in the Crystal when he touched it, it seems most reasonable that the vision Ardyn received from Ifrit of his face in the Crystal reflected that (rather than, as he assumed, demonstrating that he was truly meant to be King).
With that as a starting point, everything strange about Episode Ardyn and its Prologue falls into place:
Why does Aera seem disturbed by the revelation she received? Because she knows that Ardyn has been chosen to suffer rather than to rule.
Why does Aera choose to have Somnus announce that Ardyn was chosen as King? Because she, like Somnus, knows that's the only reason why Ardyn would return to the palace given Somnus' hostility.
Why not tell Somnus that Ardyn was meant to be absorbed into the Crystal and would shortly be out of his way? Perhaps she did! Either Somnus' aggression towards the Scourge was so great that he couldn't bear the thought of the Crystal absorbing someone who'd been corrupted by it, or Aera realized that was possible and thought (wrongly) that he would be less likely to try anything stupid if he thought that Ardyn was under the protection of the Astrals.
Why does Aera throw herself in front of Ardyn when Somnus attacks him? Apart from her love for him, she probably saw it as her duty to ensure that he reached the Crystal and fulfilled his destiny.
Why was Ardyn rejected by the Crystal? Because he was never meant to be King in the first place.
Why does Ardyn assume that both Aera and Somnus knew the truth about his role? Because they probably did.
Likes:
SonOfEtro
This is my last post regarding this subject towards you Ikkin because you are being purposely obtuse and difficult.
No you are being obtuse and simply are ignoring the facts, the fact is the contest was made to have the artists draw their own artwork for what they think fans most want to see for an ending for DotF, that is why there is a bunch of different artwork like Luna and Noct having kids sitting on the throne, or a different art by Matsuzawa with Luna and Noct with kids at a picnic with Ardyn, or the Luna and Noct at Ardyn's funeral art, or the Noct and Luna wedding in Altissia art, etc. You again ignored what they actually said, I don't know why, this is the second time, it's right there in your face telling you that they created artworks with the art members on the team for what each of those artists ideas were for what they think fans most want to see for an ending in DotF, it is not just talking the Ardyn picnic artwork. You are not using logic, you are outright denying facts.
The proof was posted and you still denied it, I don't care about your excuses.
I'm talking about artstyle and the design itself, which is nothing remotely close to anything Ferrari has ever drawn or any artwork he has uploaded to his facebook, or any of his designs. Ferrari never had anything to do with DotF.
You'd still be wrong because Kamikokuryo left Square Enix in 2017 and he has not been stated as being any of the artists involved in DotF or any of the DLC credits, or in anything XV related since he left SE, and not only that but that artwork looks nothing like Kamikokuryo's style while it is inherently Niki's style through and through.
Yusuke Naora also left Square Enix in 2016 but he was specifically stated and confirmed by the devs to have done the designs for DotF specifically Episode Ardyn for 2000 years ago Ardyn, Aera and Somnus.
However Kamikokuryo has never been cited or stated to have done any artwork for anything DotF or even XV related since he left SE in 2017, and even despite that Kamikokuryo did do new artwork for FF12 Zodiac Age again which they specifically announced and confirmed, andwhat he did was promo art, if he did any DotF artwork for XV then they would have announced and confirmed his involvement in that too just like they did for Naora for Ep Ardyn and just like Kamikokuryo was for Zodiac Age, but they didn't, because he wasn't.
Those two examples you posted don't look anything like the funeral art, here is his FF12 ZA art as a more recent example of something he did and it again looks nothing like that funeral art, which was clearly by Niki.
Kamikokuryo has highly detailed backgrounds and a specific muted pallet he uses, and with wonky rendered human figures in his art, he also uses highly textured brushes with scratchy lines visible on the texture itself, the Funeral art is completely loose background that is unlike Kamikokuryo's art or colour stylings, is unlike his compositions, and the character proportions look nothing like the style and proportions Kamikokuryo uses.
This is FFXV concept art Kamikokuryo did, which looks nothing remotely like the funeral art, same goes for the art of Kamikokuryo you posted.
The two funeral arts and the one of the wedding at Altissia with the bros next to them are Niki's artstyle, Luna is wearing a different dress in all three of those artworks.
That is not an assumption which for some reason you still don't seem to understand, it is a fact that Sword of the Father did not exist in Nomura's XV, it was only created for Tabata's XV because the royal arms were only created for Tabata's XV and they were designed AFTER Episode Duscae had come out.
You should maybe check the source because it has a different statement to only being 2014, which just says the project started looking for other studios in 2014 and entered full production in Summer 2015 after doing some Pre-production, Summer 2015 includes June 2015 which is 3 months after Episode Duscae came out, which is the same month we saw the redesign Regis with the Sword of the Father being first shown in rough art by Matsuzawa then the final art later by Gamescom.
Translation
Back in 2013 Kingsglaive started as an internal project which Nozue stated was planned since Versus became XV, then in 2014 they started planning to look for outside production studios to work on it, and then following the story changes and other changes in 2015 they then started that full production in Summer 2015. All of the new designs using mocap face scan people including John Campling as Regis only happened in 2015, same for all the other facescanned people, which was only a few months before ACTUAL production started with all those other companies around the world, Summer 2015 was also the same time we first saw Sword of the Father and in July 2015 a leak from a Chinese website saying a FFXV called Kings Glaive was in the works, and in that leak they mistook Luna for Stella since at that time Luna was still wearing the white Roen dress and had her hair down like Stella did.
And here is a render of Luna with the white Roen dress alongside the Prototype Nyx too.
Your source is Gematsu just resposting the exact thread from a FF Forum, it literally says it in the opening of the article
Hey, Oji from FF-XIII.net, where have we heard of him before? Oh right he's the same person that fabricated a fake translation from a 2010 interview which he claimed to say that Versus story had been written when in reality the interview said no such thing even regarding any story completion or script. Meanwhile I posted the actual IGN article of Nomura's statement which is only talking about the outside world OUTSIDE of Noctis's country, not inside his country.
Well it is, and it's another fine example of Oji from FF-XIII.net not knowing what he's talking about and spreading false translations.
That top artwork was by Yuki Matsuzawa was concept art and the bottom artwork was just a redone version for one of the updates to match the storybook artstyle of the Cosmogony artwork which that is a page from, that is the reason that art was redone for that, there would be no reason to "redo" an art by a differnent artist just for concept art itself when it already exists for the purpose of concept art, the example you posted with the Ifrit art is completely different because the bottom art is used as actual artwork within FFXV's world as a page from Cosmogony. Also I don't know why you think any of the artwork in DotF is by Ferrari when none of it looks like his artwork or anything he's ever done, tons of example of his artwork to show what his artstyle is was posted, which shows his art through various stages of completion, and you are still denying that. You really don't know what you are talking about, and you also don't seem to know the difference between the roles of character designer and an image illustrator or concept artist.
None of those artworks are by Nomura and I don't know why that twitter account is saying they are, Hasegawa was monster designer on the game and those designs are his artwork, also that Dino art isn't remotely close to Nomura's artstyle.
No you are being obtuse and simply are ignoring the facts, the fact is the contest was made to have the artists draw their own artwork for what they think fans most want to see for an ending for DotF, that is why there is a bunch of different artwork like Luna and Noct having kids sitting on the throne, or a different art by Matsuzawa with Luna and Noct with kids at a picnic with Ardyn, or the Luna and Noct at Ardyn's funeral art, or the Noct and Luna wedding in Altissia art, etc. You again ignored what they actually said, I don't know why, this is the second time, it's right there in your face telling you that they created artworks with the art members on the team for what each of those artists ideas were for what they think fans most want to see for an ending in DotF, it is not just talking the Ardyn picnic artwork. You are not using logic, you are outright denying facts.
The proof was posted and you still denied it, I don't care about your excuses.
I'm talking about artstyle and the design itself, which is nothing remotely close to anything Ferrari has ever drawn or any artwork he has uploaded to his facebook, or any of his designs. Ferrari never had anything to do with DotF.
You'd still be wrong because Kamikokuryo left Square Enix in 2017 and he has not been stated as being any of the artists involved in DotF or any of the DLC credits, or in anything XV related since he left SE, and not only that but that artwork looks nothing like Kamikokuryo's style while it is inherently Niki's style through and through.
Yusuke Naora also left Square Enix in 2016 but he was specifically stated and confirmed by the devs to have done the designs for DotF specifically Episode Ardyn for 2000 years ago Ardyn, Aera and Somnus.
However Kamikokuryo has never been cited or stated to have done any artwork for anything DotF or even XV related since he left SE in 2017, and even despite that Kamikokuryo did do new artwork for FF12 Zodiac Age again which they specifically announced and confirmed, andwhat he did was promo art, if he did any DotF artwork for XV then they would have announced and confirmed his involvement in that too just like they did for Naora for Ep Ardyn and just like Kamikokuryo was for Zodiac Age, but they didn't, because he wasn't.
Those two examples you posted don't look anything like the funeral art, here is his FF12 ZA art as a more recent example of something he did and it again looks nothing like that funeral art, which was clearly by Niki.
Kamikokuryo has highly detailed backgrounds and a specific muted pallet he uses, and with wonky rendered human figures in his art, he also uses highly textured brushes with scratchy lines visible on the texture itself, the Funeral art is completely loose background that is unlike Kamikokuryo's art or colour stylings, is unlike his compositions, and the character proportions look nothing like the style and proportions Kamikokuryo uses.
This is FFXV concept art Kamikokuryo did, which looks nothing remotely like the funeral art, same goes for the art of Kamikokuryo you posted.
The two funeral arts and the one of the wedding at Altissia with the bros next to them are Niki's artstyle, Luna is wearing a different dress in all three of those artworks.
That is not an assumption which for some reason you still don't seem to understand, it is a fact that Sword of the Father did not exist in Nomura's XV, it was only created for Tabata's XV because the royal arms were only created for Tabata's XV and they were designed AFTER Episode Duscae had come out.
You should maybe check the source because it has a different statement to only being 2014, which just says the project started looking for other studios in 2014 and entered full production in Summer 2015 after doing some Pre-production, Summer 2015 includes June 2015 which is 3 months after Episode Duscae came out, which is the same month we saw the redesign Regis with the Sword of the Father being first shown in rough art by Matsuzawa then the final art later by Gamescom.
Translation
Back in 2013 Kingsglaive started as an internal project which Nozue stated was planned since Versus became XV, then in 2014 they started planning to look for outside production studios to work on it, and then following the story changes and other changes in 2015 they then started that full production in Summer 2015. All of the new designs using mocap face scan people including John Campling as Regis only happened in 2015, same for all the other facescanned people, which was only a few months before ACTUAL production started with all those other companies around the world, Summer 2015 was also the same time we first saw Sword of the Father and in July 2015 a leak from a Chinese website saying a FFXV called Kings Glaive was in the works, and in that leak they mistook Luna for Stella since at that time Luna was still wearing the white Roen dress and had her hair down like Stella did.
And here is a render of Luna with the white Roen dress alongside the Prototype Nyx too.
Your source is Gematsu just resposting the exact thread from a FF Forum, it literally says it in the opening of the article
Hey, Oji from FF-XIII.net, where have we heard of him before? Oh right he's the same person that fabricated a fake translation from a 2010 interview which he claimed to say that Versus story had been written when in reality the interview said no such thing even regarding any story completion or script. Meanwhile I posted the actual IGN article of Nomura's statement which is only talking about the outside world OUTSIDE of Noctis's country, not inside his country.
Well it is, and it's another fine example of Oji from FF-XIII.net not knowing what he's talking about and spreading false translations.
That top artwork was by Yuki Matsuzawa was concept art and the bottom artwork was just a redone version for one of the updates to match the storybook artstyle of the Cosmogony artwork which that is a page from, that is the reason that art was redone for that, there would be no reason to "redo" an art by a differnent artist just for concept art itself when it already exists for the purpose of concept art, the example you posted with the Ifrit art is completely different because the bottom art is used as actual artwork within FFXV's world as a page from Cosmogony. Also I don't know why you think any of the artwork in DotF is by Ferrari when none of it looks like his artwork or anything he's ever done, tons of example of his artwork to show what his artstyle is was posted, which shows his art through various stages of completion, and you are still denying that. You really don't know what you are talking about, and you also don't seem to know the difference between the roles of character designer and an image illustrator or concept artist.
None of those artworks are by Nomura and I don't know why that twitter account is saying they are, Hasegawa was monster designer on the game and those designs are his artwork, also that Dino art isn't remotely close to Nomura's artstyle.
Likes:
Lord_Ham_Mork
It came to my attention and surprised that for some reason Episode Ardyn (more so this one than the later) and Dawn of the Future are not listed as part of the "XV Universe".
http://www.finalfantasy.jp/ffxvuniverse/
http://www.finalfantasy.jp/ffxvuniverse/
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Storm
It doesn't surprise me. It's like what Universe? They dropped everything so would anyone update that? Who has time for that?
Likes:
andrzejp90
Honestly, at this point, I think you're simply committed to misunderstanding my position. =P
I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I accepted the fact that the contest for which the picnic was created was also the inspiration for the two funeral artworks when you demonstrated, using a human translation, that the captions for the funeral artworks referenced such a contest.
The only point of contention with regard to the quote about the picnic artwork is whether that particular quote identified any other artworks that were created for the contest, or whether it simply said that such a contest existed. My argument was that the only thing that could be determined from the quote was the latter.
Again, I didn't deny it once I had a human translation, because my problem was the machine translation. I wish you'd stop acting as if I was still arguing for a position I no longer hold.
And my point is that there are different things that different people look at to determine who they thought created a particular piece of artwork. I'm not the only one who thought the artwork kind of looked a bit Ferrari-like. =P
Except for the problem that Niki's art is big on chiaroscuro and the funeral art demonstrates a style of lighting diametrically opposed to that. =P
It's also worth pointing out that I wasn't saying that Kamikokuryo actually made the funeral art so much as that his style was more consistent with it than Niki's.
I am... not entirely sure how this supports any point that you made. All you've really done is demonstrate that Squenix does bring their former employees back as contractors.
I'm not entirely sure why you would assume that the existence of announcements of Naora's involvement in creating character designs and creating unique boxart for a re-release would necessarily imply that Squenix would announce any and all work performed by independent contractors, regardless of how important. Character design is important enough for Nomura to get special copyright credits alongside Squenix as a corporation, and boxart is a major draw for the sorts of people who might be considering whether to purchase a new re-release of an old game they already own.
The lighting is still a whole heck of a lot closer than Niki's chiaroscuro, I can tell you that!
The problem with Kamikokuryo's style and proportions on human figures isn't that they're universally wonky so much as they're inconsistent, which makes it difficult to use them to rule him out. =P
Anyway, I'm not sure why you think Kamikokuryo's "specific muted palette" is a point of contradiction when the artwork under discussion demonstrates exactly that sort of muted palette (rather than a dramatic contrast between light and darkness as one might expect from Niki):
Not to mention, it's pretty clear that whoever did this particular piece of art, the entire thing is far looser than it would have been in a finished piece. And here's where I think you shot yourself in the foot.
I'm not sure what the first image is, because it's broken. But the second one... I'm not sure how you could have possibly failed to realize how counterproductive it is for your argument.
The palette is very close to the funeral artwork. The magitek hordes are drawn loosely in a way that is very similar to the background figures of the funeral art. There are a number of places in the background where it is very clear that loose strokes are being used rather than detailed textures. None of the contrasts you sought to provide seem to be truly applicable here. =/
Wait wait wait wait wait.
Is this "the one of the wedding at Altissia with the bros next to them?"
Are you seriously suggesting that three artworks were created by the same artist for the same competition? And that two of those artworks (if not three; the above image really doesn't look a lot like a wedding in Altissia given Luna's expression and the presence of Bahamut's swords) represented the same funeral, but depicted Luna wearing a different dress for some reason? That makes literally no sense whatsoever.
I guess you could be talking about this image of the bros with Noct and Luna at their wedding:
...but that just raises more questions, because that looks nothing like the style of either funeral artwork.
And, speaking of wedding artworks, do we have a solid attribution for the artist who drew the cover for DotF?
Facts require either direct evidence or logical proofs based on direct evidence. Neither of those things exist for the claim that the designs for each and every royal arm were created de novo after the decision was made to develop a set of royal arms... and they certainly don't exist for the claim that they were designed after the release of Episode Duscae.
Right, because it makes so much sense to check a source in a language I can't actually read. =P
Not to mention, the English source contradicts the Japanese one, anyway:
Three years before 2016 is 2013, not 2014.
I was also able to find another English source, this time referencing Famitsu, that claimed that "Kingsglaive began production in 2013."
There's definitely something strange going on with regards to the information we have about Kingsglaive's inception, though I think your translation leaves open the possibility that the project that started in 2014 was the outsourcing rather than the initial planning for the movie itself, since the focus of the question is on said outsourcing.
Which... I think you agree with?
In any case, it would seem downright bizarre for one of the most important character's most important prop not to have been created over a year (i.e. from December 2013, the latest date allowed for by the Famitsu info, to Episode Duscae's release in March 2015) into pre-production on a movie with only a few months remaining in pre-production (i.e. March 2015-Summer 2015).
And it seems almost as strange to presume that the design for the Sword of the Father was shown off almost as soon as it was made -- it seems like something of that sort would require a bit of time spent on revisions and reconsideration between its initial creation and its inclusion as a fully rendered 3D model in a trailer. =P
...wow, gaming media is the literal worst. Well, apart from Google, which is completely incompetent at finding the translations of Versus interviews that used to exist but seem to have disappeared down the memory hole. *sigh*
Well, it's sort of odd that practically everything apart from that one quote can be corroborated using either the linked interviews or other known information about the game. =/ It's even odder that there definitely was information about magic being important (and only usable through Noct) at some point*, even though it doesn't seem to be corroborated by the linked interviews. (Another thing that I didn't see corroboration for was the claim that the area immediately outside of Insomnia was based on "Bang Bang"/Western movies... but the final game proves that much to have been accurate. =P )
* I actually managed to find what I was thinking of, and it's from an article that didn't exist when the FF-XIII.net post was created. How strange. (The article says nothing about medieval elements of Noct's culture, but it does show some interesting connections between 2011 Versus and the current FFXV!)
It would be so helpful if there was a complete list of translated Versus interviews... =/
I guess my question now is, why would it have been the case that people at the time -- who had much better resources to fact-check than we do now, after so many of the relevant sources have been taken down -- wouldn't have fact-checked a claim that so blatantly contradicted what we knew about the game? That just seems really strange to me.
I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I accepted the fact that the contest for which the picnic was created was also the inspiration for the two funeral artworks when you demonstrated, using a human translation, that the captions for the funeral artworks referenced such a contest.
The only point of contention with regard to the quote about the picnic artwork is whether that particular quote identified any other artworks that were created for the contest, or whether it simply said that such a contest existed. My argument was that the only thing that could be determined from the quote was the latter.
Again, I didn't deny it once I had a human translation, because my problem was the machine translation. I wish you'd stop acting as if I was still arguing for a position I no longer hold.
And my point is that there are different things that different people look at to determine who they thought created a particular piece of artwork. I'm not the only one who thought the artwork kind of looked a bit Ferrari-like. =P
Except for the problem that Niki's art is big on chiaroscuro and the funeral art demonstrates a style of lighting diametrically opposed to that. =P
It's also worth pointing out that I wasn't saying that Kamikokuryo actually made the funeral art so much as that his style was more consistent with it than Niki's.
Yusuke Naora also left Square Enix in 2016 but he was specifically stated and confirmed by the devs to have done the designs for DotF specifically Episode Ardyn for 2000 years ago Ardyn, Aera and Somnus.
I'm not entirely sure why you would assume that the existence of announcements of Naora's involvement in creating character designs and creating unique boxart for a re-release would necessarily imply that Squenix would announce any and all work performed by independent contractors, regardless of how important. Character design is important enough for Nomura to get special copyright credits alongside Squenix as a corporation, and boxart is a major draw for the sorts of people who might be considering whether to purchase a new re-release of an old game they already own.
Those two examples you posted don't look anything like the funeral art, here is his FF12 ZA art as a more recent example of something he did and it again looks nothing like that funeral art, which was clearly by Niki.
The problem with Kamikokuryo's style and proportions on human figures isn't that they're universally wonky so much as they're inconsistent, which makes it difficult to use them to rule him out. =P
Anyway, I'm not sure why you think Kamikokuryo's "specific muted palette" is a point of contradiction when the artwork under discussion demonstrates exactly that sort of muted palette (rather than a dramatic contrast between light and darkness as one might expect from Niki):
Not to mention, it's pretty clear that whoever did this particular piece of art, the entire thing is far looser than it would have been in a finished piece. And here's where I think you shot yourself in the foot.
This is FFXV concept art Kamikokuryo did, which looks nothing remotely like the funeral art, same goes for the art of Kamikokuryo you posted.
The palette is very close to the funeral artwork. The magitek hordes are drawn loosely in a way that is very similar to the background figures of the funeral art. There are a number of places in the background where it is very clear that loose strokes are being used rather than detailed textures. None of the contrasts you sought to provide seem to be truly applicable here. =/
Wait wait wait wait wait.
Is this "the one of the wedding at Altissia with the bros next to them?"
Are you seriously suggesting that three artworks were created by the same artist for the same competition? And that two of those artworks (if not three; the above image really doesn't look a lot like a wedding in Altissia given Luna's expression and the presence of Bahamut's swords) represented the same funeral, but depicted Luna wearing a different dress for some reason? That makes literally no sense whatsoever.
I guess you could be talking about this image of the bros with Noct and Luna at their wedding:
...but that just raises more questions, because that looks nothing like the style of either funeral artwork.
And, speaking of wedding artworks, do we have a solid attribution for the artist who drew the cover for DotF?
Facts require either direct evidence or logical proofs based on direct evidence. Neither of those things exist for the claim that the designs for each and every royal arm were created de novo after the decision was made to develop a set of royal arms... and they certainly don't exist for the claim that they were designed after the release of Episode Duscae.
Right, because it makes so much sense to check a source in a language I can't actually read. =P
Not to mention, the English source contradicts the Japanese one, anyway:
Three years before 2016 is 2013, not 2014.
I was also able to find another English source, this time referencing Famitsu, that claimed that "Kingsglaive began production in 2013."
There's definitely something strange going on with regards to the information we have about Kingsglaive's inception, though I think your translation leaves open the possibility that the project that started in 2014 was the outsourcing rather than the initial planning for the movie itself, since the focus of the question is on said outsourcing.
Which... I think you agree with?
In any case, it would seem downright bizarre for one of the most important character's most important prop not to have been created over a year (i.e. from December 2013, the latest date allowed for by the Famitsu info, to Episode Duscae's release in March 2015) into pre-production on a movie with only a few months remaining in pre-production (i.e. March 2015-Summer 2015).
And it seems almost as strange to presume that the design for the Sword of the Father was shown off almost as soon as it was made -- it seems like something of that sort would require a bit of time spent on revisions and reconsideration between its initial creation and its inclusion as a fully rendered 3D model in a trailer. =P
...wow, gaming media is the literal worst. Well, apart from Google, which is completely incompetent at finding the translations of Versus interviews that used to exist but seem to have disappeared down the memory hole. *sigh*
Well, it's sort of odd that practically everything apart from that one quote can be corroborated using either the linked interviews or other known information about the game. =/ It's even odder that there definitely was information about magic being important (and only usable through Noct) at some point*, even though it doesn't seem to be corroborated by the linked interviews. (Another thing that I didn't see corroboration for was the claim that the area immediately outside of Insomnia was based on "Bang Bang"/Western movies... but the final game proves that much to have been accurate. =P )
* I actually managed to find what I was thinking of, and it's from an article that didn't exist when the FF-XIII.net post was created. How strange. (The article says nothing about medieval elements of Noct's culture, but it does show some interesting connections between 2011 Versus and the current FFXV!)
It would be so helpful if there was a complete list of translated Versus interviews... =/
I guess my question now is, why would it have been the case that people at the time -- who had much better resources to fact-check than we do now, after so many of the relevant sources have been taken down -- wouldn't have fact-checked a claim that so blatantly contradicted what we knew about the game? That just seems really strange to me.
Likes:
stolas
I think the best way to get an idea of what Versus XIII and earlier drafts of XV were going for is to look at the other FNC games, their mythologies, the real life mythology they're based on and the Kingdom Hearts games and Nomura's writing tendencies. There's a ton of overlap between all of that stuff. XV still has a lot of those themes and ideas in it, they just removed the FNC terminology.
XV's "The Beyond" sounds very similar to Valhalla in XIII, it's like an in-between world/purgatory that the Gods/Eidolons reside in, where human souls pass through on the way to the Unseen World beyond it. So you have the Living World>Valhalla/Void Beyond>Unseen World, I'm guessing the dream world in XV is similar to the Void Beyond in FNC, in the sense it's a place made of dreams in a chasm between the seen and unseen worlds. The FNC lore really lines up with XV's when you look into it, almost perfectly. Ardyn's predicament is similar to Yeul's, whenever their physical body dies they go back to Purgatory where their souls are unable to pass onto the Unseen World, so they return back to the living world again and again.
I have a theory that Noctis would've become the King of the Afterlife and that would've tied into the phantom wedding at the end of XV. They leave the original ending up to interpretation but I like the idea that it was Noctis' destiny to reign there, maybe that's why in the original trailers Noctis and Stella's meeting was predestined by the divine, they would've ruled the Unseen World together, replacing Etro maybe, at the cost of their lives.
In fact Umbra being able to become Human might have all been because of the dream stuff. In Japan they have Kitsune, which are like Fox spirits that can transform into Humans and act as Messengers, it's curious that Noctis' dream guardian Carbuncle also resembles a fox in XV too. Either way I think the dream world would've played a bigger role in the story outside of just the Platinum Demo once, but for obvious reasons they chose to remove the more metaphysical elements from the plot.
I have a theory that Noctis would've become the King of the Afterlife and that would've tied into the phantom wedding at the end of XV. They leave the original ending up to interpretation but I like the idea that it was Noctis' destiny to reign there, maybe that's why in the original trailers Noctis and Stella's meeting was predestined by the divine, they would've ruled the Unseen World together, replacing Etro maybe, at the cost of their lives.
In fact Umbra being able to become Human might have all been because of the dream stuff. In Japan they have Kitsune, which are like Fox spirits that can transform into Humans and act as Messengers, it's curious that Noctis' dream guardian Carbuncle also resembles a fox in XV too. Either way I think the dream world would've played a bigger role in the story outside of just the Platinum Demo once, but for obvious reasons they chose to remove the more metaphysical elements from the plot.
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andrzejp90 and Storm
Shattering the crystal dispersed enough light to purge all daemons? My personal theory was that the same magic that the daemons use come from the same crystal that Lucis has and that why they had to destroy the crystal to get rid of both of them.
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Lord_Ham_Mork
I always liked the idea that Lucis' crystal was secretly evil and more like a dark crystal, would've been a different take on the concept. But with DotF it's still not really clear how the crystal tied into everything, can anyone help me out? If it was the soul of the planet wouldn't destroying it have a negative effect on Eos? Why did purging Ardyn's soul from the crystal get rid of all Daemons when he wasn't even the source of the scourge in the first place?
Yeah, The Beyond definitely seems to share elements with Valhalla. The connection with dreams actually reminds me a little more of a certain place from KHIII, though -- a place between life and death that can be accessed from dreams, since the line between life and death is thinner when you sleep.
With regards to Ardyn, I'm more inclined to connect him with Caius than Yeul, though it's probably more appropriate to say that he shares elements with both of them.
Noct becoming King of the Afterlife makes perfect sense as a final outcome, especially since that's still a perfectly viable interpretation of the final game. The biggest difference would be that he would replace Etro rather than taking on a completely new role, and the dream/afterlife aspects would have played a much bigger role earlier in the game.
Perhaps the idea was never that the Crystal was the soul of the planet so much as the place within it (i.e. The Beyond) contained the soul of the planet.
Here's Bahamut's line about the place he met Noct in English: "The heart of the Crystal, wherein lies the soul of the star, and it is in this place that the King will gain the power to fulfill his calling."
And in Japanese: "Inside the Holy Stone, wherein lies the soul of the Planet. And a place for you, Chosen King, to obtain the power and finally fulfill your mission."
That seems consistent with the idea that the soul of the planet is in The Beyond, which is accessed through the Crystal. As such, destroying the Crystal wouldn't destroy the soul of the planet so much as the connection between the physical realm and the soul of the planet.
As for the destruction of Ardyn's soul purging the daemons, perhaps the idea is that Ardyn's actions -- first to absorb the Scourge and then to spread it -- tied the Scourge to himself in a deep enough way that it could no longer continue to exist without him.
With regards to Ardyn, I'm more inclined to connect him with Caius than Yeul, though it's probably more appropriate to say that he shares elements with both of them.
Noct becoming King of the Afterlife makes perfect sense as a final outcome, especially since that's still a perfectly viable interpretation of the final game. The biggest difference would be that he would replace Etro rather than taking on a completely new role, and the dream/afterlife aspects would have played a much bigger role earlier in the game.
Perhaps the idea was never that the Crystal was the soul of the planet so much as the place within it (i.e. The Beyond) contained the soul of the planet.
Here's Bahamut's line about the place he met Noct in English: "The heart of the Crystal, wherein lies the soul of the star, and it is in this place that the King will gain the power to fulfill his calling."
And in Japanese: "Inside the Holy Stone, wherein lies the soul of the Planet. And a place for you, Chosen King, to obtain the power and finally fulfill your mission."
That seems consistent with the idea that the soul of the planet is in The Beyond, which is accessed through the Crystal. As such, destroying the Crystal wouldn't destroy the soul of the planet so much as the connection between the physical realm and the soul of the planet.
As for the destruction of Ardyn's soul purging the daemons, perhaps the idea is that Ardyn's actions -- first to absorb the Scourge and then to spread it -- tied the Scourge to himself in a deep enough way that it could no longer continue to exist without him.
Yeah, when I think about it Valhalla was said to be on the borders of the Unseen Realm, which is very similar to the the Final World. And how Chirithy says "there's nothing else beyond this". Makes me suspect what we saw in the secret movie was the Kingdom Hearts equivalent of the Unseen World, maybe it's the Kingdom of the Dead being ruled by Yozora? And in FNC, Chaos is visualised as dark water in Valhalla, the Verum Rex art shows Yozora's swords sinking into water, as well Young Xehanort warning Sora he'd be condemned to the bottom of the abyss, so a lot of signs seem to be pointing in that direction imo.
And the crystal acting as a gateway to the beyond makes much more sense actually, with the beyond serving a similar function to Valhalla in XIII and the Final World in Kingdom Hearts. The crystal is a little bit like Etro's Gate in that context.
The Ardyn thing's still a bit murky for me but I can buy what your saying, especially since he was the one mostly responsible for spreading the plague across the world in the modern era, destroying his soul may have undone that. But also the crystal being destroyed in DotF and purging all of the darkness with it's light and shattering is a clean explanation that I actually prefer, does it do that in the original ending or did it just fizzle out?