Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

[Ikkin]

Not sure how much is canon or not, definitely the different choices leading to different outcomes are not canon to the true storyline but what about the lore details, like Ardyn being immortal because his soul is inside the crystal?

Bahamut with human features was already implied in the main game, with his depiction in the Cosmogony and his eyes.

I don't think there's any way to say which lore details are canon because there are some added details that are just bonkers.

With that said, Ardyn's soul being absorbed in the Crystal makes a certain amount of sense, and there's nothing intrinsically questionable about Bahamut having the same face as Noct and Somnus. Honestly, I love the idea in isolation -- there's something really neat about the Lucis Caelums sharing the face of the god they serve.

The real crazy bit about the Bahamut excerpt, to me, is that it implies that:

Spoiler

a) Noct figured out that Ardyn wasn't ever really meant to be chosen because of it and was angry as a result, which... whaaat?

b) Bahamut favored Somnus because they looked more alike???[/quote]

Neither of which make any sense at all. =/

 

[SonOfEtro]

I don't think there's any way to say which lore details are canon because there are some added details that are just bonkers.

With that said, Ardyn's soul being absorbed in the Crystal makes a certain amount of sense, and there's nothing intrinsically questionable about Bahamut having the same face as Noct and Somnus. Honestly, I love the idea in isolation -- there's something really neat about the Lucis Caelums sharing the face of the god they serve.

The real crazy bit about the Bahamut excerpt, to me, is that it implies that:

Spoiler

a) Noct figured out that Ardyn wasn't ever really meant to be chosen because of it and was angry as a result, which... whaaat?

b) Bahamut favored Somnus because they looked more alike???

Spoiler

Neither of which make any sense at all. =/

[/QUOTE]
Let's remember that this is a translated fragment from a 400+ page book without any additional context or current ability to check the translation's accuracy.

 

[Storm]

the connection with Bahamut and the Lucis line was a bit obvious considering the Armiger, not hard to imagine Bahamut had a son with a mortal which would make the Caelums semi-gods.

 

[Loganight]

the connection with Bahamut and the Lucis line was a bit obvious considering the Armiger, not hard to imagine Bahamut had a son with a mortal which would make the Caelums semi-gods.

I always thought that each of the astrals were tied to each of the powers that the line of Lucis had access to.
Bahamut = Phantom Swords
Ifrit = Warp (like during his boss fight when he turns into flames and reappears elsewhere)
Shiva = Phase/Warp Clone (since it leaves behind a copy, like Shiva makes copies of herself)
Ramuh = Elemancy
Titan = Wall (like how he makes one around Noctis after his fight with Leviathan)

Not sure about Leviathan but I'm sure you could easily draw a connection to something else. I'm sure this was unintentional but the similarities have stuck out to me over my various playthroughs.

 

[Bazztek]

Summary of Aranea's story, which if it was still DLC sounds like it would have been really cool to play.
https://autumnstwilight.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184458988143
Partly because we would have been able to fight this in Episode Aranea.

Spoiler

 

[FFChocobo18]

Summary of Aranea's story, which if it was still DLC sounds like it would have been really cool to play.
https://autumnstwilight.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184458988143
Partly because we would have been able to fight this in Episode Aranea.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Holy freaking crud, Diamond Weapon was close to being in the game through Aranea's DLC, god darn it, just reading about that actually made me a little angry. I wish Episode Aranea still came out as DLC with Episode Ardyn. Darn those higher ups, Episode Aranea could've been great to play in the replay I finished, if it was really canon, but I'm going to wait for an interview to clear up the status of Aranea's story here.

Edit:[

After reading the full summary, I can say that Episode Aranea was looking on par, if not, close to the greatness of Episode Ardyn. It's a shame that it was reduced to a section of a novel, I'm feeling mad./SPOILER]

 

[ash]

Spoiler

Holy freaking crud, Diamond WEapon was close ot being in the game through Arabea's DLC, god darn it, just reading abot that actually made me a little angry. I wish Episoe Aranea still came out as DLC with Episode Ardyn. Darn those higher ups, Episode Aranea could've ben great to play in the replay I finished, if it was really canon, but I'm going to wait for an interview to clea rup the status of Aranea's story here.

I'm actually tearing up. JUST IMAGINE how cool this would have been as a DLC element, and perhaps if integrated into the main game, this could saved the entirety of Chapter 11, where it could have been inserted near the end of it (Because when we arrive in Tenebrae it's Chapter 12). This is so, so, so sad. Along with my favorite set of DLCs (Ignis, Prompto and Ardyn, in that order) this could have really made this game something else. Such a pitiful waste.

Edit: Now that I think about it, doesn't the Prompto/Adryn sequence happen in Chapter 11? How would this tie in with Aranea's episode? Maybe those events happen in Chapter 10 in terms of the game's timeline?

 

[Ikkin]

Summary of Aranea's story, which if it was still DLC sounds like it would have been really cool to play.
https://autumnstwilight.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184458988143
Partly because we would have been able to fight this in Episode Aranea.

Spoiler

That sounds legitimately awesome, and causes no real issues with canon.

I have to wonder whether the real reason why it was cancelled was because it got too expensive, because the multi-part setpiece fight sounds like it would have taken a lot of work. >>;

 

[Loganight]

Oh 100% the remaining DLCs were cancelled because they would have been too expensive. Square was done pumping money into this game, could you imagine what their reactions were seeing the costs of making a Diamond Weapon set piece boss battle??

EDIT: That's probably why Episode Ardyn got made before they cancelled the others, most of what's in Episode Ardyn could be recycled but then immediately after having to pitch Episode Aranea must have been a nightmare. I'm sure they got shut down then and there.

 

[motoleo]

Tenebrae. Gralea. Zegnautus. So Ardyn thought it was time to bring it all down. Much in the same way he descended on Insomnia twice, he took out Gralea in the same manner.

The game made it seem like Niflheim fell in on itself, that it was more of a chain reaction, powers within the Empire working against each other.

Okay, but what about Ravus? I mean he was in the throne room, but he wasn't mentioned in Episode Aranea, what was he doing?

 

[Bazztek]

Okay, but what about Ravus? I mean he was in the throne room, but he wasn't mentioned in Episode Aranea, what was he doing?

Her was killed before Iedolas fully turned into a Daemon.

 

[motoleo]

Her was killed before Iedolas fully turned into a Daemon.

I thought there was some kind of rebellion that was supposed to happen.

 

[Ikkin]

Let's remember that this is a translated fragment from a 400+ page book without any additional context or current ability to check the translation's accuracy.

While this is true, the final outcome pretty much guarantees that there are gonna be incoherent things happening with Bahamut. =P

Anyway, I found a Twitter thread that basically outlines the entire concept:

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818746455089152

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818803258544129

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818866093416453

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818934343135232

In other words, Bahamut goes completely off the rails to resurrect Luna and turn her into another Ardyn?! Because of this, Noct, Luna, Aranea, and Ardyn team up to defeat Bahamut? Luna revives after Bahamut's defeat even though he was the one who resurrected her? Ardyn gets a hero's funeral and is posthumously declared the real Founder King?

The entire thing sounds like fixfic from someone who couldn't actually accept that Ardyn was the villain. =/

 

[Loganight]

While this is true, the final outcome pretty much guarantees that there are gonna be incoherent things happening with Bahamut. =P

Anyway, I found a Twitter thread that basically outlines the entire concept:

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818746455089152

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818803258544129

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818866093416453

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818934343135232

In other words, Bahamut goes completely off the rails to resurrect Luna and turn her into another Ardyn?! Because of this, Noct, Luna, Aranea, and Ardyn team up to defeat Bahamut? Luna revives after Bahamut's defeat even though he was the one who resurrected her? Ardyn gets a hero's funeral and is posthumously declared the real Founder King?

The entire thing sounds like fixfic from someone who couldn't actually accept that Ardyn was the villain. =/

Yeah honestly if you look at Bahamut's actions in Episode Ardyn as a "means to an end" then I don't think Ardyn's "redemption" in his DLC was too bad. It actually helped me appreciate his character more. But the shit that it seems like they were planning for Bahamut in Episode Noctis along with absolving Ardyn of all his sins and revering him as the true founder king is just too strange LOL

 

[motoleo]

Just imagine that in your mind... Man created in his own image. I don't know this seems far-fetched

 

[ash]

While this is true, the final outcome pretty much guarantees that there are gonna be incoherent things happening with Bahamut. =P

Anyway, I found a Twitter thread that basically outlines the entire concept:

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818746455089152

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818803258544129

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818866093416453

https://twitter.com/statuses/1121818934343135232

In other words, Bahamut goes completely off the rails to resurrect Luna and turn her into another Ardyn?! Because of this, Noct, Luna, Aranea, and Ardyn team up to defeat Bahamut? Luna revives after Bahamut's defeat even though he was the one who resurrected her? Ardyn gets a hero's funeral and is posthumously declared the real Founder King?

The entire thing sounds like fixfic from someone who couldn't actually accept that Ardyn was the villain. =/

So it seems Episode Luna was supposed to build on her character using an alternate timeline? I'm not sure if that was the case, but I really hope it wasn't. I have always imagined EL to be about "Lunafreya's activities," not this bs. I guess she was always meant to be an unredeemable character within the narrative of the original (canon?) timeline.

Edit: So why was it necessary for Ardyn to "spread darkness throughout the land"? I thought the directors of that episode said it would happen for a really good reason, but I still don't understand that. Why wasn't his calling to just wait in peace and allow Noctis to free him without causing all the drama?

 

[andrzejp90]

What it was "supposed" to be and what it actually was are two different things, and what it was was a cancelled concept of a game because that is all it amounted to before being repurposed for XV, and FF characters had been used in non game advertisements for well over a decade, it's hardly something new to FF or something you should try and feel offended for on behalf of what you think the creators are feeling. For all you know he feels the same way about it as Yoko Taro does about 2B being used in a ton of things, which he said was as long as they get paid he's fine with 2B being put in anything.

I`m talking through human-emotional perspective. And the Verum Rex teaser clearly shows he is/was pissed.

Let`s just agree to disagree.

 

[Ikkin]

Yeah honestly if you look at Bahamut's actions in Episode Ardyn as a "means to an end" then I don't think Ardyn's "redemption" in his DLC was too bad. It actually helped me appreciate his character more. But the shit that it seems like they were planning for Bahamut in Episode Noctis along with [spoilers] is just too strange LOL

Exactly. Ignoring the obvious attempt at character assassination in the non-canon ending, Bahamut being all, "Fate is fate. Deal with it" works pretty well for both his and Ardyn's characterization. The Episode Luna/Episode "Noctis" stuff sounds like pure fanfic-esque woobification, though. =/

So it seems Episode Luna was supposed to build on her character using an alternate timeline? I'm not sure if that was the case, but I really hope it wasn't. I have always imagined EL to be about "Lunafreya's activities," not this bs. I guess she was always meant to be an unredeemable character within the narrative of the original (canon?) timeline.

I always expected this to be the case, which had me in a constant state of *facepalm* when people were complaining about how Luna's characterization was being relegated to a novel. No, it wasn't; the stuff that got relegated to the novel was never Luna's characterization to begin with.

With that said, I don't think Luna's characterization was unredeemable; it simply wasn't the sort of thing that the complainers would ever be happy with. She's meant to be sort of a role model for canon!Noct insofar as she's already accepted what Noct will inevitably have to accept. But, because acceptance is not a popular trait for people inclined to complain about female characters on the internet... the only thing that could be done to make the complainers happy is to turn her into someone completely different. =/

Edit: So why was it necessary for Ardyn to "spread darkness throughout the land"? I thought the directors of that episode said it would happen for a really good reason, but I still don't understand that. Why wasn't his calling to just wait in peace and allow Noctis to free him without causing all the drama?

Spoiler

I'm guessing that Bahamut's reason was meant to be garbage so Noct would have an excuse to fight him. =P

 

[andrzejp90]

If it's canon at all, it's canon in such a trivial sense that it can no longer impinge upon primary canon. I mean, to use the Omen trailer as an example, does anyone really insist that anything that happens there makes demands on our understanding of Noct in canon? No -- and DotF is in the same category.


Anyway, I found a few more excerpts on Tumblr, which I could not possibly feel differently about.

https://autumnstwilight.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184453133948
This exchange between Somnus and Ardyn is fantastic and makes it clear that the difference between them is meant to reflect the difference between progressivism and conservatism at their furthest extremes. I love it.

In contrast, this lore retcon about Bahamut?

https://higharollakockamamie.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184454258347
Sheesh. -_-

No, but when it comes to sole Noct`s perspective, we already got all of it - in the original game. Which many weren`t too happy with.
Problem is, everyone else`s perspective in this game is practically standalone game material.

 

[andrzejp90]

Spoiler

I'm guessing that Bahamut's reason was meant to be garbage so Noct would have an excuse to fight him. =P

Just like they made Ardyn in the begining.
What i take from this - writers don`t know how to write a good story without creating a scapegoat....