I feel like it was assumed or maybe mentioned offhandedly somewhere outside the game that someone had died and that drove him crazy? I wanna say I remember reading that it was his son but not sure.
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Lord_Ham_Mork
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Allow me to be the first to say that I am so glad that none of this is real canon. >_<
Interesting!
The idea of Ardyn taking Noct's place as the sacrifice and surviving because of who he is is a perfectly legitimate "what if?" in my mind. That Ardyn can't bring himself to do that is the ultimate tragedy, and the scene as translated is effective and has some really interesting implications for the canon. (If it's that painful for Ardyn... poor Noct!)
HOWEVER!
The idea that Bahamut wants to annihilate humanity is such utter garbage that I consider the cancellation of the entire set of DLCs to be worth its excision from anything even remotely resembling main canon. It might not be as hilarious as FFX-2.5's sex aeons and exploding Tidus, but it shows an essentially equivalent disregard for the game as it originally existed.
The most obvious problem, of course, is this: if Bahamut wanted humanity annihilated, why was there a Chosen King at all?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?
With regards to Iedolas, the revelation regarding him is far less upsetting, but... seriously, another dead wife motivation? =/
HOWEVER!
The idea that Bahamut wants to annihilate humanity is such utter garbage that I consider the cancellation of the entire set of DLCs to be worth its excision from anything even remotely resembling main canon. It might not be as hilarious as FFX-2.5's sex aeons and exploding Tidus, but it shows an essentially equivalent disregard for the game as it originally existed.
The most obvious problem, of course, is this: if Bahamut wanted humanity annihilated, why was there a Chosen King at all?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?
With regards to Iedolas, the revelation regarding him is far less upsetting, but... seriously, another dead wife motivation? =/
Yeah I just saw that and looked at the artwork and she definitely does look like an older version of the girl.
My initial reaction to the artwork of the older girl was that the way she dressed didn't really look like it belonged in the game proper, but that I could sort of see her outfit working in Comrades. If the girl is just an heir to the Empire that Aranea raised and doesn't have some secret hidden powers relating to the DotF nonsense, I'd be down with her existing in canon.
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Lord_Ham_Mork and Lulcielid
I think we should wait for fuller translations of both this section and what happens beforehand before making judgements on Bahamut's actions. Strange as it may be, the translated portion which shows Ardyn ascending the throne actually feels in character for Ardyn. He's shown to have something of a complex about being a saviour, and he's still driven by somewhat selfish motives. On the whole, I'd wait for fuller translations before making final judgements.
And...I think Iedolas's origin here isn't that much more silly or flimsy than his original one. This story is very much classic FF when it comes to characters. As in pre-VI.
And...I think Iedolas's origin here isn't that much more silly or flimsy than his original one. This story is very much classic FF when it comes to characters. As in pre-VI.
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Yeah, I'm glad none of the cancelled DLCs (maybe with the exception of Aranea, maybe) were turned into games and that can be thrown in the dumsperfire that was Ep.Ignis alt ending.
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Oh, I agree that there isn't much to complain about with regards to Ardyn's characterization. But the problem with Bahamut isn't a matter of characterization so much as a matter of logical coherence. It's not coherent with Shiva's description of the Astrals as having been tasked with the protection of life on Eos, and it's not coherent with Bahamut's own actions in raising up a Chosen King to stop the Starscourge and save the remainder of humanity.
As for Iedolas, I much prefer the idea that he was corrupted by Ardyn. They've had enough dead wives/girlfriends -- and had enough complaints from fans about dead wives/girlfriends -- that they really ought to have stopped before adding another backstory of the sort to a character who really didn't need it.
As for Iedolas, I much prefer the idea that he was corrupted by Ardyn. They've had enough dead wives/girlfriends -- and had enough complaints from fans about dead wives/girlfriends -- that they really ought to have stopped before adding another backstory of the sort to a character who really didn't need it.
Hey, Episode Ignis' alt ending at least makes for a pretty compelling "Ignis has survivor's guilt and believes that he could have fixed things if he'd made a different choice" interpretation. =P I don't think that was what was intended, granted, but when you include scenes from after the canon timeskip in an alternate timeline, what else am I supposed to think?
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Lord_Ham_Mork
I don't want to jump straight to the ending. I am going for spoilers but with a build-up. Does anyone have a summary of the other sections similar to the one of Ardyn that was posted?
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Lord_Ham_Mork and Storm
Oh, I agree that there isn't much to complain about with regards to Ardyn's characterization. But the problem with Bahamut isn't a matter of characterization so much as a matter of logical coherence. It's not coherent with Shiva's description of the Astrals as having been tasked with the protection of life on Eos, and it's not coherent with Bahamut's own actions in raising up a Chosen King to stop the Starscourge and save the remainder of humanity.
As for Iedolas, I much prefer the idea that he was corrupted by Ardyn. They've had enough dead wives/girlfriends -- and had enough complaints from fans about dead wives/girlfriends -- that they really ought to have stopped before adding another backstory of the sort to a character who really didn't need it.
As for Iedolas, I much prefer the idea that he was corrupted by Ardyn. They've had enough dead wives/girlfriends -- and had enough complaints from fans about dead wives/girlfriends -- that they really ought to have stopped before adding another backstory of the sort to a character who really didn't need it.
Hey, Episode Ignis' alt ending at least makes for a pretty compelling "Ignis has survivor's guilt and believes that he could have fixed things if he'd made a different choice" interpretation. =P I don't think that was what was intended, granted, but when you include scenes from after the canon timeskip in an alternate timeline, what else am I supposed to think?
On a basic level, I agree Bahamut simply turning into a villain would be clumsy and, at worst, flouting the way this world's been built up.
It's a little flimsy, but taking that video you did about the Astrals being a physical embodiment of elements and concepts (which makes a lot of sense by the way, especially the way they seem to have just arrived on Eos) with human influence having unpredictable events, Bahamut's change isn't entirely unfeasible. We have to take the alt path into consideration, and accept that it's a path where no-one does what they're told willingly or at all. If Ifrit could be driven over the edge by betrayal from humans, why couldn't Bahamut follow a similar path? He embodies a power that can destroy the world if not tempered by peace. After working for two thousand years to eradicate a plague which threatens all of Eos, the fact that key players in his plan turn against it and him could end up turning his attitude of "ends justify the means" (evident in the game) and "no other way but this" (game and manga) into full-blown despair and nihilism. Maybe within the novel, Noctis rebelling is the final push that sends Bahamut over the edge into being a god of destruction. If the bit about destroying humanity outright is correct (and I'm not saying it is, I'd wait until we have a proper translation rather than a short summary), it could be a fallback plan in case the original plan fell through; do a blitz on Eos and start again from scratch.
That could set up a scene where the other Astrals are forced to turn against him as they did against Ifrit so long ago. We don't know yet what the other Astrals are doing, and from the few bits I picked up Gentiana/Shiva has a role to play in the ending.
Bear in mind, this is all speculation, not based on anything I've seen from the novel itself. And it's likely I could be entirely wrong.
It's a little flimsy, but taking that video you did about the Astrals being a physical embodiment of elements and concepts (which makes a lot of sense by the way, especially the way they seem to have just arrived on Eos) with human influence having unpredictable events, Bahamut's change isn't entirely unfeasible. We have to take the alt path into consideration, and accept that it's a path where no-one does what they're told willingly or at all. If Ifrit could be driven over the edge by betrayal from humans, why couldn't Bahamut follow a similar path? He embodies a power that can destroy the world if not tempered by peace. After working for two thousand years to eradicate a plague which threatens all of Eos, the fact that key players in his plan turn against it and him could end up turning his attitude of "ends justify the means" (evident in the game) and "no other way but this" (game and manga) into full-blown despair and nihilism. Maybe within the novel, Noctis rebelling is the final push that sends Bahamut over the edge into being a god of destruction. If the bit about destroying humanity outright is correct (and I'm not saying it is, I'd wait until we have a proper translation rather than a short summary), it could be a fallback plan in case the original plan fell through; do a blitz on Eos and start again from scratch.
That could set up a scene where the other Astrals are forced to turn against him as they did against Ifrit so long ago. We don't know yet what the other Astrals are doing, and from the few bits I picked up Gentiana/Shiva has a role to play in the ending.
Bear in mind, this is all speculation, not based on anything I've seen from the novel itself. And it's likely I could be entirely wrong.
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Heh, that... actually kind of sounds like the writers got so caught up in their Sympathy for the Devil that they decided to use the cast's defiance as an excuse to give said Devil what he wanted.
Like... if Bahamut primarily cared about the outcome of his plan, there's no reason he should be upset if the humans involved found a better option. Getting that upset about people not using his exact plan regardless of whether it was the best one or not sounds more like something Ardyn would expect of Bahamut than something the player could reasonably expect based on the game (and the manga!).
Depending on how the further details go, in fact, I'm heavily inclined to view the whole thing as Ardyn's what-if? scenario. I mean, why else would "Episode Noctis" end with Ardyn stealing the main role from the supposed protagonist? =/
Like... if Bahamut primarily cared about the outcome of his plan, there's no reason he should be upset if the humans involved found a better option. Getting that upset about people not using his exact plan regardless of whether it was the best one or not sounds more like something Ardyn would expect of Bahamut than something the player could reasonably expect based on the game (and the manga!).
Depending on how the further details go, in fact, I'm heavily inclined to view the whole thing as Ardyn's what-if? scenario. I mean, why else would "Episode Noctis" end with Ardyn stealing the main role from the supposed protagonist? =/
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Lord_Ham_Mork and SonOfEtro
I'm feeling all this a little bittersweet...
All these spoilers look awesome on paper but I think all of this probably would become disappointing DLCs with short length and simple gameplay.
Probably they got cancelled because of this. And they had so much to tell that looks like that could be doing a Final Fantasy XV-2 by now.
Maybe a book was a better solution in the end.
Will be great for theories and years and years of debate of "How Great Final Fantasy XV could have been" but that's is it.
RIP awesome Luna.
Let's hope Final Fantasy XVI development goes smooth.
All these spoilers look awesome on paper but I think all of this probably would become disappointing DLCs with short length and simple gameplay.
Probably they got cancelled because of this. And they had so much to tell that looks like that could be doing a Final Fantasy XV-2 by now.
Maybe a book was a better solution in the end.
Will be great for theories and years and years of debate of "How Great Final Fantasy XV could have been" but that's is it.
RIP awesome Luna.
Let's hope Final Fantasy XVI development goes smooth.
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I remember reading in an interview that they'd learned their lesson about storytelling, and won't be trying out the XV experiment (sticking to a single POV at the expense of all else) again. They're also not trying to build engine technology alongside an extremely ambitious game with six years of toxic baggage clinging to it. Yet.
Ehh I kind of get lost with these endings haha
But I like how Somnus 'kills' Ardyn on throne, similar to Regis killing Noctis. So sad :< They were brothers after all...
I'm going to buy this book when it comes out in english, I hope it won't take them 2 years or something
I'd like to know more about Luna. She looks soooo badass!!!
For the girl from Aranea's story...that was unexpected and not really necessary xD
But I like how Somnus 'kills' Ardyn on throne, similar to Regis killing Noctis. So sad :< They were brothers after all...
I'm going to buy this book when it comes out in english, I hope it won't take them 2 years or something
I'd like to know more about Luna. She looks soooo badass!!!
For the girl from Aranea's story...that was unexpected and not really necessary xD
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Somebody post spoilers about the domino effect in the fall of Niflheim. The collapse of the Empire. When they said what had happened in the game, from that moment I wanted to see it first hand.
Can somebody find me a link, please, something. Somebody please get me a link
And Luna having the Starscourge my goodness, Lucians, Nifs, Kings, Gods... and now even the Oracle. the only group who didn't get infected is Noctis's crew pretty much
Can somebody find me a link, please, something. Somebody please get me a link
And Luna having the Starscourge my goodness, Lucians, Nifs, Kings, Gods... and now even the Oracle. the only group who didn't get infected is Noctis's crew pretty much
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