For the most part it is a d**k measuring contest. With that said, I do want to mention that FPS is very vital in fighting games, some action games, action RPGs, and any competitive setting game. That's why for example the COD shooters are 60 FPS for their online mode, while being 30 offline. Sometimes the FPS difference can be the difference between life and death.
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"Oh c'mon they're not worthless. There is a massive market for them."
Market doesn't equal worth when you have this.
http://kotaku.com/5701066/crysis-developers-consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back
http://www.pcgamer.com/consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back-say-dice/
https://www.gamecrate.com/division-...pt-check-consoles-ubisoft-issues-denial/12854
"Having fun is what matters imo. Everything else is secondary. Console wars, and and PC wars is the lamest thing I've come across in the gaming community. I mean.. who cares?"
Well when console manufacturers stop unethical practices like locking games hostage on their platform to create artificial demand then maybe, just maybe we can talk about fun and just fun. Look I think consoles are worse than useless, they are aggressively worthless, and it's harming gaming as a whole, they limit options, and sell on anti-consumer practices that some people for some odd reason seem to be perfectly fine with ie. exclusives, exclusive bonuses, so on and so forth. I agree gaming is about fun first and foremost this is why I think consoles are worthless, because they reduce the fun, they reduce options, having online locked behind a pay-wall WTF is that? I mean you pay your ISP, then you pay Sony and MS to play online. That doesn't sound fun or logical. Having to deal with 30FPS, and bad frame-pacing issues that doesn't seem fun to me, especially if I have a system that can run the game without such issue.
No modding that reduces the fun in gaming, I mean what if I want Nathan Drake to have a dildo strapped to his head while I'm playing Uncharted 4 for example(Look it's 12:10 AM in my country that's the best I could come up with). Also what about preservation imagine if the SNES wasn't emulated and Nintendo decided to just move on, and never return to that line up, we would lose so many titles, same thing can be said about PS4 exclusives imagine if Sony decides to forget about BC for the PS5, well there goes the fun of being able to play old PS4 games.
"Edit: I honestly can't help but wonder if it's all a d*** measuring contest at times when it comes to specs, performance, what's got the better FPS and whatnot. I mean the arguments people get into when it comes to this stuff.. O_O"
I agree though the performance dick measuring is pretty stupid, but I think it's worth pointing out in comparison to consoles when they tout themselves as 4K boxes, even though the GPU of the PS4 Pro is weaker than that of a AMD Radeon RX 470. I believe any PC vs Console debate must deal with the ethics first and foremost and how console affect the hobby of gaming as a whole, not ZOMG my GTX 1080 Ti PWNZ the XBOX SCORPIO #LOLOLOLOLOL9OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLOOLL
"Not everyone wants to game on a PC, even if they have better performance." I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one, I mean you got something that doubles as a gaming system and a PC with free online capabilities, and is more powerful than a console, you can also do practically anything the consoles can but better. HDMI support got it, controller support got it.
Market doesn't equal worth when you have this.
http://kotaku.com/5701066/crysis-developers-consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back
http://www.pcgamer.com/consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back-say-dice/
https://www.gamecrate.com/division-...pt-check-consoles-ubisoft-issues-denial/12854
"Having fun is what matters imo. Everything else is secondary. Console wars, and and PC wars is the lamest thing I've come across in the gaming community. I mean.. who cares?"
Well when console manufacturers stop unethical practices like locking games hostage on their platform to create artificial demand then maybe, just maybe we can talk about fun and just fun. Look I think consoles are worse than useless, they are aggressively worthless, and it's harming gaming as a whole, they limit options, and sell on anti-consumer practices that some people for some odd reason seem to be perfectly fine with ie. exclusives, exclusive bonuses, so on and so forth. I agree gaming is about fun first and foremost this is why I think consoles are worthless, because they reduce the fun, they reduce options, having online locked behind a pay-wall WTF is that? I mean you pay your ISP, then you pay Sony and MS to play online. That doesn't sound fun or logical. Having to deal with 30FPS, and bad frame-pacing issues that doesn't seem fun to me, especially if I have a system that can run the game without such issue.
No modding that reduces the fun in gaming, I mean what if I want Nathan Drake to have a dildo strapped to his head while I'm playing Uncharted 4 for example(Look it's 12:10 AM in my country that's the best I could come up with). Also what about preservation imagine if the SNES wasn't emulated and Nintendo decided to just move on, and never return to that line up, we would lose so many titles, same thing can be said about PS4 exclusives imagine if Sony decides to forget about BC for the PS5, well there goes the fun of being able to play old PS4 games.
"Edit: I honestly can't help but wonder if it's all a d*** measuring contest at times when it comes to specs, performance, what's got the better FPS and whatnot. I mean the arguments people get into when it comes to this stuff.. O_O"
I agree though the performance dick measuring is pretty stupid, but I think it's worth pointing out in comparison to consoles when they tout themselves as 4K boxes, even though the GPU of the PS4 Pro is weaker than that of a AMD Radeon RX 470. I believe any PC vs Console debate must deal with the ethics first and foremost and how console affect the hobby of gaming as a whole, not ZOMG my GTX 1080 Ti PWNZ the XBOX SCORPIO #LOLOLOLOLOL9OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLOOLL
"Not everyone wants to game on a PC, even if they have better performance." I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one, I mean you got something that doubles as a gaming system and a PC with free online capabilities, and is more powerful than a console, you can also do practically anything the consoles can but better. HDMI support got it, controller support got it.
Honestly at this point, anything Sony and MS does, can be replaced by a Steam Box with Windows Installed. Sony and Microsoft might as well just follow suit. Consoles before the 7th generation had there place, but now they are basically shitty versions of PCs, so you know what the 9th gen should just go all the way have Sony and MS just make Steamboxes, with PC Versions of all games for those with high-end systems, that are willing to run them. If you don't have a high-end system, then you have the option to get a Sony or MS Steambox.
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"Market doesn't equal worth" you say... that statement is beyond stupid from a business perspective.
If I ran my marketing company with a "market doesn't equal worth" mentality I'd be broke ass by now with people demanding refunds left and right.
Developers have trouble with creating games because of the limitations consoles bring, yes. This is true. However, that's not related at all to the market for people who want and buy consoles.
Two very different things. Consumers don't care about the difficulties developers experience. They're there to buy games and play them. That's it.
They have to play games on something right? That's what consoles are for. Whether people choose to play games on a console or PC is a personal choice and preference. No right or wrong here.
For example, as someone who doesn't care about graphical power, I prefer consoles because I can sit far away from the screen and not kill my eyes, the screen is bigger, and I can sprawl comfortably on my couch while I play.
"I agree gaming is about fun first and foremost this is why I think consoles are worthless, because they reduce the fun"
Well... if playing games on consoles wasn't fun.. I wouldn't have been a gamer for 20+ years. No diminished enjoyment here, same goes for thousands, or millions of other gamers.
All I can say is it helps to expand your point of view and realise not everyone wants the same things as you do, they don't see things the same way that you do, nor do they place the same value on things as you do.
Your comment "I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one" is extremely one sided and narrow minded. Refer to my last paragraph on this.
Point is - consoles are still great and relevant gaming platforms. You don't like them? That's fine. There are plenty of other people who do. Myself and all of my gaming friends own consoles and we rarely, if ever, game on PC's. Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
There is no right or wrong here, so d*** measuring to see who's got the biggest this, or the most powerful that, or the fastest whatever, is beyond idiotic.
Open your mind young man and you might learn something valuable.
Fair point. That's a good argument and I can see the point of why FPS is importance in this context. If it makes sense like this, then I have no problem with it.
If I ran my marketing company with a "market doesn't equal worth" mentality I'd be broke ass by now with people demanding refunds left and right.
Developers have trouble with creating games because of the limitations consoles bring, yes. This is true. However, that's not related at all to the market for people who want and buy consoles.
Two very different things. Consumers don't care about the difficulties developers experience. They're there to buy games and play them. That's it.
They have to play games on something right? That's what consoles are for. Whether people choose to play games on a console or PC is a personal choice and preference. No right or wrong here.
For example, as someone who doesn't care about graphical power, I prefer consoles because I can sit far away from the screen and not kill my eyes, the screen is bigger, and I can sprawl comfortably on my couch while I play.
"I agree gaming is about fun first and foremost this is why I think consoles are worthless, because they reduce the fun"
Well... if playing games on consoles wasn't fun.. I wouldn't have been a gamer for 20+ years. No diminished enjoyment here, same goes for thousands, or millions of other gamers.
All I can say is it helps to expand your point of view and realise not everyone wants the same things as you do, they don't see things the same way that you do, nor do they place the same value on things as you do.
Your comment "I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one" is extremely one sided and narrow minded. Refer to my last paragraph on this.
Point is - consoles are still great and relevant gaming platforms. You don't like them? That's fine. There are plenty of other people who do. Myself and all of my gaming friends own consoles and we rarely, if ever, game on PC's. Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
There is no right or wrong here, so d*** measuring to see who's got the biggest this, or the most powerful that, or the fastest whatever, is beyond idiotic.
Open your mind young man and you might learn something valuable.
Fair point. That's a good argument and I can see the point of why FPS is importance in this context. If it makes sense like this, then I have no problem with it.
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Likes:
Nova
You know what's more worthless than consoles?
People whining about them on the internet.
Likes:
Orenji and Somber
The latest update shows and average frame rate of 40-45 that can also dip to 30 depending on the enemies on screen. The frame rate during exploration in towns also appear to average lower than 40 fps.
Pixel counts indicate that the Final Fantasy 15 Lite Mode on Patch 1.05 running on PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.(read the comment section)
Pixel counts indicate that the Final Fantasy 15 Lite Mode on Patch 1.05 running on PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.(read the comment section)
Likes:
Storm
nier songs are amazing for field exploration ç_ç
the timed quest was kinda crazy, you need to kill 100 cactuars; they have a new meteor-ish needle skill, i hope the rewards get more significant, the exp/ap gain is enormous but i'd love new gear.
the warp and armiger are a bit faster for sure.
edit:
http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/...nd-nier-automata-collaboration-now-available/
the timed quest was kinda crazy, you need to kill 100 cactuars; they have a new meteor-ish needle skill, i hope the rewards get more significant, the exp/ap gain is enormous but i'd love new gear.
the warp and armiger are a bit faster for sure.
edit:
http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/...nd-nier-automata-collaboration-now-available/
Likes:
Nova
I like how you linked two articles from the tail end of last gen (2010-2011), when the consoles in question came into existence before the standardized framework that exists in modern GPUs. You'd probably be held back less by a PS3-equivalent tablet chipset than an actual PS3.
You also need to take into account the fact that tech doesn't really advance at the same rate anymore.
With regards to consoles, the core limitation on the amount of power in the box is heat/energy/die size -- the developers figure out how to maximize the performance of their chips within the heat/energy/die size limits required by a console-sized box on a console budget, with maximum performance improving only when the performance-to-heat/energy/die size ratio increased. The bulk of such improvements came from process node shrinkage (with some smaller gains being made in between process node shrinks).
When the PS3 released, its GPU and CPU both used 90nm process nodes. By approximately 2010, the GPU was at 40nm and the CPU was at 45nm. The PS4, in contrast, released with a 28nm chipset and recently shrunk to 16nm. The difference between a 42% decrease and a 50-55% decrease might not seem like that much, but in combination with the fact that die shrinks are becoming more difficult and taking more time the smaller the process gets, current-gen consoles will probably hold their own against PCs for longer than last-gen consoles did.
Another compounding factor is the introduction of ridiculously massive, ridiculously expensive PC chips near the end of last-gen. Such chips still exist, of course, but having something that already exists scale up alongside everything else is different from introducing massive monsters that trounce existing chips in the first place. The market for those chips seems to have settled on being "gamers who love having way more power than they'll ever need and using it for supersampling/ridiculous framerates," so they're not even a real consideration in the development of high-end settings anymore.
And, of course, you can't forget 4k and 144hz screens, which serve as a fantastic excuse to eat up most of the surplus power PCs have available. Back in 2010, maxing out resolution and framerate would maybe quadruple the amount of processing power you needed. Now, you'd need ~20x the amount of processing power in a base console to do that.
Oh, almost forgot RAM. The Titan X, the most over-the-top chip out there today (three years after the launch of the consoles), has 12GB of video ram, in comparison to the 8GB shared pool that consoles have available. PC cards had half again as much RAM as the total pool available on console all the way back in 2007 (the 8800 GTX), with PS3 not even being able to dedicate more than 256MB of its RAM to its GPU. At three years into last gen, PC cards included twice as much RAM as the entire console RAM pool.
In other words, there's far less need for expensive PC-exclusive graphical options now than last-gen. Not all PCs are significantly better than consoles power-wise, and even the ones that are tend to have much of their extra power dedicated to improvements that are effectively free to developers (higher framerates, higher resolution, higher draw distances, tesselation, anti-aliasing).
I'm sure there's someone out there who'd love to see what his Titan X could do at 1080/30, but there's no actual market for that. There is a market for 1080/30 console titles with graphical effects maxed and a market for 4k/144 supersampled ridiculousness using high-end cards. As such, it makes all the sense in the world that developers would choose to create a 1080/30 base product on the most successful console and scale up from there, including PC-exclusive graphical options more for the sake of R&D than for an expectation of immediate return.
There's nothing unethical about exclusives as long as they're not literally paid-for, and they've got significant advantages over non-exclusives on performance grounds. It's not a coincidence that Sony studios like Naughty Dog were able to shame everyone in terms of what they accomplished on PS3-level hardware.
Even with the existence of half-gen hardware like the Pro, there's still advantages to building for two or three unique targets rather than infinite possible combinations of settings and hardware.
Modding is cool, but I don't think it should be universally required. I mean, the ability to code in completely absurd nonsense of the sort that you mentioned would be outright antithetical to the nature of some games.
Game preservation is highly important to me (I specifically mentioned it when I answered that FFXV survey!), but you don't need PC ports to preserve games. =P The SNES was emulated by fans long before Nintendo even thought twice about selling ROMs, and the same will happen for the PS4. RPCS3 is already a thing, even if it's in its infancy, and PS3's architecture was as strange as it gets. And, in the worst case scenario... you can always just play PS4 games on PS4, the way people still do with SNES games?
As for paid online... I agree that it's nonsense, which is why I refuse to subscribe. =P Thankfully, I'm not all too fond of multiplayer games in the first place, so it doesn't affect me that much.
A lot of people don't want to be forced to deal with optimization and troubleshooting for an essentially unique system, garbage physical releases, and a choice between expensive assembly costs and the need to put expensive electronic parts together yourself. =P
Did they even try to re-analyze the base PS4 version? They use it as a point of comparison, but there's no indication of whether they're just comparing to old data.
You also need to take into account the fact that tech doesn't really advance at the same rate anymore.
With regards to consoles, the core limitation on the amount of power in the box is heat/energy/die size -- the developers figure out how to maximize the performance of their chips within the heat/energy/die size limits required by a console-sized box on a console budget, with maximum performance improving only when the performance-to-heat/energy/die size ratio increased. The bulk of such improvements came from process node shrinkage (with some smaller gains being made in between process node shrinks).
When the PS3 released, its GPU and CPU both used 90nm process nodes. By approximately 2010, the GPU was at 40nm and the CPU was at 45nm. The PS4, in contrast, released with a 28nm chipset and recently shrunk to 16nm. The difference between a 42% decrease and a 50-55% decrease might not seem like that much, but in combination with the fact that die shrinks are becoming more difficult and taking more time the smaller the process gets, current-gen consoles will probably hold their own against PCs for longer than last-gen consoles did.
Another compounding factor is the introduction of ridiculously massive, ridiculously expensive PC chips near the end of last-gen. Such chips still exist, of course, but having something that already exists scale up alongside everything else is different from introducing massive monsters that trounce existing chips in the first place. The market for those chips seems to have settled on being "gamers who love having way more power than they'll ever need and using it for supersampling/ridiculous framerates," so they're not even a real consideration in the development of high-end settings anymore.
And, of course, you can't forget 4k and 144hz screens, which serve as a fantastic excuse to eat up most of the surplus power PCs have available. Back in 2010, maxing out resolution and framerate would maybe quadruple the amount of processing power you needed. Now, you'd need ~20x the amount of processing power in a base console to do that.
Oh, almost forgot RAM. The Titan X, the most over-the-top chip out there today (three years after the launch of the consoles), has 12GB of video ram, in comparison to the 8GB shared pool that consoles have available. PC cards had half again as much RAM as the total pool available on console all the way back in 2007 (the 8800 GTX), with PS3 not even being able to dedicate more than 256MB of its RAM to its GPU. At three years into last gen, PC cards included twice as much RAM as the entire console RAM pool.
In other words, there's far less need for expensive PC-exclusive graphical options now than last-gen. Not all PCs are significantly better than consoles power-wise, and even the ones that are tend to have much of their extra power dedicated to improvements that are effectively free to developers (higher framerates, higher resolution, higher draw distances, tesselation, anti-aliasing).
I'm sure there's someone out there who'd love to see what his Titan X could do at 1080/30, but there's no actual market for that. There is a market for 1080/30 console titles with graphical effects maxed and a market for 4k/144 supersampled ridiculousness using high-end cards. As such, it makes all the sense in the world that developers would choose to create a 1080/30 base product on the most successful console and scale up from there, including PC-exclusive graphical options more for the sake of R&D than for an expectation of immediate return.
There's nothing unethical about exclusives as long as they're not literally paid-for, and they've got significant advantages over non-exclusives on performance grounds. It's not a coincidence that Sony studios like Naughty Dog were able to shame everyone in terms of what they accomplished on PS3-level hardware.
Even with the existence of half-gen hardware like the Pro, there's still advantages to building for two or three unique targets rather than infinite possible combinations of settings and hardware.
Modding is cool, but I don't think it should be universally required. I mean, the ability to code in completely absurd nonsense of the sort that you mentioned would be outright antithetical to the nature of some games.
Game preservation is highly important to me (I specifically mentioned it when I answered that FFXV survey!), but you don't need PC ports to preserve games. =P The SNES was emulated by fans long before Nintendo even thought twice about selling ROMs, and the same will happen for the PS4. RPCS3 is already a thing, even if it's in its infancy, and PS3's architecture was as strange as it gets. And, in the worst case scenario... you can always just play PS4 games on PS4, the way people still do with SNES games?
As for paid online... I agree that it's nonsense, which is why I refuse to subscribe. =P Thankfully, I'm not all too fond of multiplayer games in the first place, so it doesn't affect me that much.
A lot of people don't want to be forced to deal with optimization and troubleshooting for an essentially unique system, garbage physical releases, and a choice between expensive assembly costs and the need to put expensive electronic parts together yourself. =P
Did they even try to re-analyze the base PS4 version? They use it as a point of comparison, but there's no indication of whether they're just comparing to old data.
Likes:
Nova
>Market doesn't equal worth" you say... that statement is beyond stupid from a business perspective.
Ain't talking from a business perspective, merely artistic the standpoint that benefits gamers that is where consoles as is are aggressively worthless they can't sell on there own merits as hardware, they need to lock exclusive titles to keep them relevant thus holding the game back from what can really be achieved if it didn't have locked technical standards, the PC doesn't need to do this games that are exclusive to PC are that way because of actual design(look at Star Citizen), hell I don't think the Nintendo Switch needs to do this it has a meaningful innovation that can allow it to sell on it's own merits the PS4 and Xbox One do not.
>Well... if playing games on consoles wasn't fun.. I wouldn't have been a gamer for 20+ years. No diminished enjoyment here, same goes for thousands, or millions of other gamers.
I'm talking about it objectively no mods = reduced fun, and lack of options means reduced fun, I'm not talking about subjectively, you can call playing a fighter FPS at 10FPS having fun may true for that one person out there, but I'm looking at the bigger picture, that goes beyond that one man, and for gamers as a whole. I'm talking about people that defend these anti-consumer exclusive practices, and say I'm having fun playing this particular game at 24FPS, no mod support, low graphical detail, that means everyone is going to have fun with low graphical detail, stop bitching and buy a machine with inferior hardware, then get mad when the game is featured on Steam feeling entitled to a claim on the game as if they own the IP, and that it's there special baby no one can touch it. Worse of all they can smart consumerism entitlement. "You have a system that is far superior to the consoles spec wise therefore you can run this game on your system, so therefore you believe it's a waste of money to buy a console to play a specific game you want to play, because it can run on your PC, and the console version has issues that you don't want to deal with? Well boo hoo entitled man, consoles for life." Or some stupid shit like that, as if being a smart consumer, and not buying into these bad practices is a bad thing.
>Your comment "I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one" is extremely one sided and narrow minded. Refer to my last paragraph on this.
Well considering the costs, the options that you are afforded, etc, etc, I can't see why you wouldn't want one, I mean you already know how to use a computer, I myself started out on consoles, yet I know how to operate a gaming computer, it's the same as operating any other computer. You want to play a game click icon, and it loads, if it's a Steam title, log in to Steam, go to game library, it loads. Also in this modern world you need a computer anyway, so I don't see why you wouldn't want one that can run games, and do all that you want, especially when the current gen consoles aren't that much different. Last gen I could see why, some people don't like game installs, you know what understandable.
>For example, as someone who doesn't care about graphical power, I prefer consoles because I can sit far away from the screen and not kill my eyes, the screen is bigger, and I can sprawl comfortably on my couch while I play
A couple brain cells have just died man come on don't do this to me http://hookpctotv.com/, please don't do this http://hookpctotv.com/, I beg of you http://hookpctotv.com/, I really beg of thee http://hookpctotv.com/
>All I can say is it helps to expand your point of view and realise not everyone wants the same things as you do, they don't see things the same way that you do, nor do they place the same value on things as you do.
Oh I understand not everyone wants the same thing as me, I mean I understand that not everyone wants the FF7 Remake to be an Action RPG, I mean I understand that not everyone likes Kingdom Hearts, but objectively I scratch my head when someone goes I don't want a gaming PC, then proceeds to list misinformation, after misinformation, after misinformation, and my brain cells die every time.
>Point is - consoles are still great and relevant gaming platforms. You don't like them? That's fine. . Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
It's not that I just don't like them if consoles didn't do this
https://www.gamecrate.com/division-...pt-check-consoles-ubisoft-issues-denial/12854
http://wccftech.com/ubisoft-watch-dogs-downgraded-console-hardware/
http://kotaku.com/5701066/crysis-developers-consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back
Then you know what I wouldn't care about them, if they didn't sell on anti-consumer practices, and were about convenience, then you know what fine, they can do as they wish, and I wouldn't care in the slightest.
>There are plenty of other people who do. Myself and all of my gaming friends own consoles and we rarely, if ever, game on PC's
That's nice but I don't see how that h
+as anything to do with my arguments against consoles being aggressively worthless as they are right now, but ok if your having fun that's fine.
>Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
I don't see how my opinions on consoles are going to delete them from existence, but whatever, I mean is me typing this right now going to send Confuse to your PS4 causing it to brick and spontaneously combust?
>There is no right or wrong here, so d*** measuring to see who's got the biggest this, or the most powerful that, or the fastest whatever, is beyond idiotic. Did you not read my post? I feel like you just skimmed over it
I agree though the performance dick measuring is pretty stupid, but I think it's worth pointing out in comparison to consoles when they tout themselves as 4K boxes, even though the GPU of the PS4 Pro is weaker than that of a AMD Radeon RX 470. I believe any PC vs Console debate must deal with the ethics first and foremost and how console affect the hobby of gaming as a whole, not ZOMG my GTX 1080 Ti PWNZ the XBOX SCORPIO
Ain't talking from a business perspective, merely artistic the standpoint that benefits gamers that is where consoles as is are aggressively worthless they can't sell on there own merits as hardware, they need to lock exclusive titles to keep them relevant thus holding the game back from what can really be achieved if it didn't have locked technical standards, the PC doesn't need to do this games that are exclusive to PC are that way because of actual design(look at Star Citizen), hell I don't think the Nintendo Switch needs to do this it has a meaningful innovation that can allow it to sell on it's own merits the PS4 and Xbox One do not.
>Well... if playing games on consoles wasn't fun.. I wouldn't have been a gamer for 20+ years. No diminished enjoyment here, same goes for thousands, or millions of other gamers.
I'm talking about it objectively no mods = reduced fun, and lack of options means reduced fun, I'm not talking about subjectively, you can call playing a fighter FPS at 10FPS having fun may true for that one person out there, but I'm looking at the bigger picture, that goes beyond that one man, and for gamers as a whole. I'm talking about people that defend these anti-consumer exclusive practices, and say I'm having fun playing this particular game at 24FPS, no mod support, low graphical detail, that means everyone is going to have fun with low graphical detail, stop bitching and buy a machine with inferior hardware, then get mad when the game is featured on Steam feeling entitled to a claim on the game as if they own the IP, and that it's there special baby no one can touch it. Worse of all they can smart consumerism entitlement. "You have a system that is far superior to the consoles spec wise therefore you can run this game on your system, so therefore you believe it's a waste of money to buy a console to play a specific game you want to play, because it can run on your PC, and the console version has issues that you don't want to deal with? Well boo hoo entitled man, consoles for life." Or some stupid shit like that, as if being a smart consumer, and not buying into these bad practices is a bad thing.
>Your comment "I mean it's ok if you don't want a gaming PC, I don't know why you wouldn't want one" is extremely one sided and narrow minded. Refer to my last paragraph on this.
Well considering the costs, the options that you are afforded, etc, etc, I can't see why you wouldn't want one, I mean you already know how to use a computer, I myself started out on consoles, yet I know how to operate a gaming computer, it's the same as operating any other computer. You want to play a game click icon, and it loads, if it's a Steam title, log in to Steam, go to game library, it loads. Also in this modern world you need a computer anyway, so I don't see why you wouldn't want one that can run games, and do all that you want, especially when the current gen consoles aren't that much different. Last gen I could see why, some people don't like game installs, you know what understandable.
>For example, as someone who doesn't care about graphical power, I prefer consoles because I can sit far away from the screen and not kill my eyes, the screen is bigger, and I can sprawl comfortably on my couch while I play
A couple brain cells have just died man come on don't do this to me http://hookpctotv.com/, please don't do this http://hookpctotv.com/, I beg of you http://hookpctotv.com/, I really beg of thee http://hookpctotv.com/
>All I can say is it helps to expand your point of view and realise not everyone wants the same things as you do, they don't see things the same way that you do, nor do they place the same value on things as you do.
Oh I understand not everyone wants the same thing as me, I mean I understand that not everyone wants the FF7 Remake to be an Action RPG, I mean I understand that not everyone likes Kingdom Hearts, but objectively I scratch my head when someone goes I don't want a gaming PC, then proceeds to list misinformation, after misinformation, after misinformation, and my brain cells die every time.
>Point is - consoles are still great and relevant gaming platforms. You don't like them? That's fine. . Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
It's not that I just don't like them if consoles didn't do this
https://www.gamecrate.com/division-...pt-check-consoles-ubisoft-issues-denial/12854
http://wccftech.com/ubisoft-watch-dogs-downgraded-console-hardware/
http://kotaku.com/5701066/crysis-developers-consoles-are-holding-pc-games-back
Then you know what I wouldn't care about them, if they didn't sell on anti-consumer practices, and were about convenience, then you know what fine, they can do as they wish, and I wouldn't care in the slightest.
>There are plenty of other people who do. Myself and all of my gaming friends own consoles and we rarely, if ever, game on PC's
That's nice but I don't see how that h
+as anything to do with my arguments against consoles being aggressively worthless as they are right now, but ok if your having fun that's fine.
>Just let people enjoy gaming however they want.
I don't see how my opinions on consoles are going to delete them from existence, but whatever, I mean is me typing this right now going to send Confuse to your PS4 causing it to brick and spontaneously combust?
>There is no right or wrong here, so d*** measuring to see who's got the biggest this, or the most powerful that, or the fastest whatever, is beyond idiotic. Did you not read my post? I feel like you just skimmed over it
I agree though the performance dick measuring is pretty stupid, but I think it's worth pointing out in comparison to consoles when they tout themselves as 4K boxes, even though the GPU of the PS4 Pro is weaker than that of a AMD Radeon RX 470. I believe any PC vs Console debate must deal with the ethics first and foremost and how console affect the hobby of gaming as a whole, not ZOMG my GTX 1080 Ti PWNZ the XBOX SCORPIO
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@Hey Everyone
The whole console thing selling on its own merits is pretty...cringe worthy to me. Most of the consoles ended up being successful because of the games. Mods do not equal more fun for everybody on PC. PC gaming in general can have more problems with botting and hacking. My phone is dying so I will finish later.
The whole console thing selling on its own merits is pretty...cringe worthy to me. Most of the consoles ended up being successful because of the games. Mods do not equal more fun for everybody on PC. PC gaming in general can have more problems with botting and hacking. My phone is dying so I will finish later.
>The whole console thing selling on its own merits is pretty...cringe worthy to me. Most of the consoles ended up being successful because of the games.
Consoles should be successful, because they are convenient not because they lock games on their system for artificial demand, I don't see how better for the industry, and encouraging innovation instead of just selling feature locked PCs is cringeworthy.
>Mods do not equal more fun for everybody on PC. PC gaming in general can have more problems with botting and hacking
It's still an option, are more options a bad thing objectively no. Also botting and hacking you know most programs prevent this right? Console games have cheating in them to, so I don't get your point.
Consoles should be successful, because they are convenient not because they lock games on their system for artificial demand, I don't see how better for the industry, and encouraging innovation instead of just selling feature locked PCs is cringeworthy.
>Mods do not equal more fun for everybody on PC. PC gaming in general can have more problems with botting and hacking
It's still an option, are more options a bad thing objectively no. Also botting and hacking you know most programs prevent this right? Console games have cheating in them to, so I don't get your point.
PC have a lot of exclusives as well....so I don't see what the problem is with something being exclusive. It's the developers call at the end of the day if they want to make their product exclusive or not. Also, it's up to the developers to make a quality PC port or a true PC version game. Not every company is going to prioritize PC, which I can understand. While gaming development takes place on a PC, devs do have an easier time optimizing for console because there is one set universal standard that can be aimed for. PC, on the other hand would have to take into account the wide variety of setups...which could lead into problems. The Wii U has been one of the very few consoles that has been able to sell well on something innovative done right....which in reality turned out to be a gimmick for a good number of people. Innovation for the most part is going to fall on devs.
Originally you pushed mods = more fun as an objective thing. That's why I commented on it in the first place. For somebody like me, mods don't matter at all. They are a pro in general, and I understand the value behind them. Perhaps your wording should have been different. A lot of PC games have tools to "prevent botting and hacking", yet many of them are still infested with hackers and bots. It's something you'll experience in a lot of the MMORPG titles for example. Console titles do have that problem as well, but I promise you it isn't to the same scale as it is on PC.
A lot of the time when the whole PC vs. console topic is brought up, a good number of people will compare their PC, which is more expensive than a current gen console, to one of the current gen consoles. While a $400 dollar PC can still out perform any of the current consoles, the gap isn't nearly as big. When it's said and done, you get what you pay for. The PS4 Pro for the price it is at is actually a good buy for the performance it offers in regards to games.
Since Steam got brought up I forgot about this:
A majority of Steams games have come out in the past 3 years. I assure you, a good chunk of those games were horrible games just in general; some even on a technical level. Steam has started to address this, but my point is PC gaming does have a lot of cons that come with it as well.
Originally you pushed mods = more fun as an objective thing. That's why I commented on it in the first place. For somebody like me, mods don't matter at all. They are a pro in general, and I understand the value behind them. Perhaps your wording should have been different. A lot of PC games have tools to "prevent botting and hacking", yet many of them are still infested with hackers and bots. It's something you'll experience in a lot of the MMORPG titles for example. Console titles do have that problem as well, but I promise you it isn't to the same scale as it is on PC.
A lot of the time when the whole PC vs. console topic is brought up, a good number of people will compare their PC, which is more expensive than a current gen console, to one of the current gen consoles. While a $400 dollar PC can still out perform any of the current consoles, the gap isn't nearly as big. When it's said and done, you get what you pay for. The PS4 Pro for the price it is at is actually a good buy for the performance it offers in regards to games.
Since Steam got brought up I forgot about this:
A majority of Steams games have come out in the past 3 years. I assure you, a good chunk of those games were horrible games just in general; some even on a technical level. Steam has started to address this, but my point is PC gaming does have a lot of cons that come with it as well.
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PC have a lot of exclusives as well....so I don't see what the problem is with something being exclusive. It's the developers call at the end of the day if they want to make their product exclusive or not. Also, it's up to the developers to make a quality PC port or a true PC version game. Not every company is going to prioritize PC, which I can understand. While gaming development takes place on a PC, devs do have an easier time optimizing for console because there is one set universal standard that can be aimed for. PC, on the other hand would have to take into account the wide variety of setups...which could lead into problems. The Wii U has been one of the very few consoles that has been able to sell well on something innovative done right....which in reality turned out to be a gimmick for a good number of people. Innovation for the most part is going to fall on devs.
Originally you pushed mods = more fun as an objective thing. That's why I commented on it in the first place. For somebody like me, mods don't matter at all. They are a pro in general, and I understand the value behind them. Perhaps your wording should have been different. A lot of PC games have tools to "prevent botting and hacking", yet many of them are still infested with hackers and bots. It's something you'll experience in a lot of the MMORPG titles for example. Console titles do have that problem as well, but I promise you it isn't to the same scale as it is on PC.
A lot of the time when the whole PC vs. console topic is brought up, a good number of people will compare their PC, which is more expensive than a current gen console, to one of the current gen consoles. While a $400 dollar PC can still out perform any of the current consoles, the gap isn't nearly as big. When it's said and done, you get what you pay for. The PS4 Pro for the price it is at is actually a good buy for the performance it offers in regards to games.
Since Steam got brought up I forgot about this:
A majority of Steams games have come out in the past 3 years. I assure you, a good chunk of those games were horrible games just in general; some even on a technical level. Steam has started to address this, but my point is PC gaming does have a lot of cons that come with it as well.
Originally you pushed mods = more fun as an objective thing. That's why I commented on it in the first place. For somebody like me, mods don't matter at all. They are a pro in general, and I understand the value behind them. Perhaps your wording should have been different. A lot of PC games have tools to "prevent botting and hacking", yet many of them are still infested with hackers and bots. It's something you'll experience in a lot of the MMORPG titles for example. Console titles do have that problem as well, but I promise you it isn't to the same scale as it is on PC.
A lot of the time when the whole PC vs. console topic is brought up, a good number of people will compare their PC, which is more expensive than a current gen console, to one of the current gen consoles. While a $400 dollar PC can still out perform any of the current consoles, the gap isn't nearly as big. When it's said and done, you get what you pay for. The PS4 Pro for the price it is at is actually a good buy for the performance it offers in regards to games.
Since Steam got brought up I forgot about this:
A majority of Steams games have come out in the past 3 years. I assure you, a good chunk of those games were horrible games just in general; some even on a technical level. Steam has started to address this, but my point is PC gaming does have a lot of cons that come with it as well.
PC exclusives are a thing because the consoles can't handle them, the other way is because of creating artificial demand that is the different.
>"Originally you pushed mods = more fun as an objective thing."
The option to have mods is an objective benefit, whether you value them or not is subjective.
>While a $400 dollar PC can still out perform any of the current consoles, the gap isn't nearly as big.
And that PC can do more than any console can, it's not just compute power.
>The PS4 Pro for the price it is at is actually a good buy for the performance it offers in regards to games.
Pfft yeah sure
>A majority of Steams games have come out in the past 3 years. I assure you, a good chunk of those games were horrible games just in general; some even on a technical level. Steam has started to address this, but my point is PC gaming does have a lot of cons that come with it as well.
So more games are a bad thing, buddy does shit games mean the good games get cancelled out, games aren't charges positives and negatives don't cancel out you get both.
Just want to point out you can easily connect your pc to your tv via hdmi and plug in a ps4 or xbone controller in it and play your games that way. You can play comfortably on a pc as well.
A year I think tbh I dont think its happening.
A year I think tbh I dont think its happening.
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