Final Fantasy XV Ending Discussion

[SonOfEtro]

I was watching through the full ending of Final Fantasy XV again, and something struck me like a wet fish in the face. Everyone's been wondering about the relations between the two post-credit scenes and the rest of the ending, and while I can't say I have a definitive answer, something's finally come to me.

During the final journey through Insomnia and on to the battle with Ardyn, Noctis is wearing his kingly robes with cloak and adornments, and he is also covered with dirt and grime on his skin. The others are in a similar state. But after the ending and the final confrontation with Ardyn, we move onto the campfire scene, and something jumped out at me. In every version I've seen, good and normal, Noctis is without any grime or dirt on his skin and wearing a formal suit unsullied by battle. The others still have bits of dirt on their faces: they're not as dirty as they are when last seen, but if we remember we finally seen them in the rain so they'll have gotten a natural wash assuming they're still alive (which I fully believe).

Also, if you look in the background during several points in that first post-credit scene, you can see a subtle pre-dawn light in the sky. Now, if you remember, the sky up to this point has been pitch black from the Starscourge. That is the true light of pre-dawn. So, in my estimation, this scene takes place at some point after the final battle. The final scene with Noctis and Luna on the throne is still a little odd, but I think it's meant to be.

So... There are a few versions of this I could conjure up, but I'd like to bring this to the table for discussion, now I've finally seen this new detail, or at least new as in I haven't seen anyone else mentioning it here or on other forums like Reddit, GameFAQs and NeoGaf. Of course, this could all be my fevered brain over-explaining things, but...

 

[Jubileus]

The wedding scene is Noctis and Luna getting married in the afterlife.

They both ascended, and being together in the afterlife is their reward for their part in saving the world... or at least that's how I interpreted it. Very bittersweet.

Noctis asking Prompto to see his photos and picking one to "take with me" before stepping into the throne room to face Ardyn is evident of that in my eyes.

"If I'm gonna die, I want to at least have a photo of my friends to look at since I won't be able to see them again."

Them feels...

 

[Jubileus]

Interesting take on the camping scene.

I've always viewed it as the guys final goodbye before heading off to Insomnia.

I'll have another look at the ending.

 

[Ikkin]

The wedding scene is Noctis and Luna getting married in the afterlife.

They both ascended, and being together in the afterlife is their reward for their part in saving the world... or at least that's how I interpreted it. Very bittersweet.

Noctis asking Prompto to see his photos and picking one to "take with me" before stepping into the throne room to face Ardyn is evident of that in my eyes.

"If I'm gonna die, I want to at least have a photo of my friends to look at since I won't be able to see them again."

Them feels...

Yeah, that's the impression I got, too.

In any case, the picture and the still-broken throne room rule out time travel shenanigans or anything like that. The only real alternative to "Noct and Luna marry in the afterlife," in my mind, is a full-on Revelation allegory where the ruins of the old Eos give way to a new world and the line between the living and the dead is blurred into non-existence. (Not that there's much evidence for that, mind, but it's consistent with what we saw and could make sense of why Regis was sending letters.)

As for the photo itself... man, was that one of the most creative uses of interactivity in service of narrative I've seen in a while. It felt like it was less about Noct wanting something to look at and more about him wanting to have something close by that reflected his journey and the time he spent with his friends. That's a really heavy choice to make, even vicariously, and it inextricably links the more lighthearted memoirs of Noct's everyday life which we had chosen throughout the game with the inevitability of his death. And then there's the Certificate of Completion, which feels like a look into the mind of whoever's sharing theirs because it reveals their answer to the question of, "What would you-as-Noct take with you?"

Interesting take on the camping scene.

I've always viewed it as the guys final goodbye before heading off to Insomnia.

I'll have another look at the ending.

That's how I understood it, too. One of Noct's lines seals it for me -- "Still... Knowing this is it, and seeing you here now, it's... more than I can take." It definitely sounds like he's talking about his impending death rather than saying his goodbyes as a ghost or something.

 

[Jubileus]

Yeah, that's the impression I got, too.

In any case, the picture and the still-broken throne room rule out time travel shenanigans or anything like that. The only real alternative to "Noct and Luna marry in the afterlife," in my mind, is a full-on Revelation allegory where the ruins of the old Eos give way to a new world and the line between the living and the dead is blurred into non-existence. (Not that there's much evidence for that, mind, but it's consistent with what we saw and could make sense of why Regis was sending letters.)

As for the photo itself... man, was that one of the most creative uses of interactivity in service of narrative I've seen in a while. It felt like it was less about Noct wanting something to look at and more about him wanting to have something close by that reflected his journey and the time he spent with his friends. That's a really heavy choice to make, even vicariously, and it inextricably links the more lighthearted memoirs of Noct's everyday life which we had chosen throughout the game with the inevitability of his death. And then there's the Certificate of Completion, which feels like a look into the mind of whoever's sharing theirs because it reveals their answer to the question of, "What would you-as-Noct take with you?"



That's how I understood it, too. One of Noct's lines seals it for me -- "Still... Knowing this is it, and seeing you here now, it's... more than I can take." It definitely sounds like he's talking about his impending death rather than saying his goodbyes as a ghost or something.

Wait what's this about Regis sending letters? Did I miss something?!?

Yeah Prompto's photography feature is genius. Very well done and it had a great purpose.

Seeing a lot of people sharing the photos they got in their game, with all of them being different, gives the game quite a bit of replay value in that regard. It's great seeing so many different pictures.

Yeah the script for that scene reinforces the idea that it's before the battle in Insomnia.

Tbh, I think the script there could use a bit of reworking. "You guys are the best" isn't as sad as "I love you guys" which was used in the Japanese version I believe.

Ray's voice acting was spot on though. Gladio's English voice was a bit too harsh imo. In the Japanese version, he was waaay more soft spoken and gentler.

The man's marching toward his death, a gruff commanding tone ain't suitable for that lol

 

[Ikkin]

Wait what's this about Regis sending letters? Did I miss something?!?

The Regis voiceover sounded an awful lot like a letter to me, though now that you mention it, that isn't the only way to interpret it. XD;

Yeah Prompto's photography feature is genius. Very well done and it had a great purpose.

Seeing a lot of people sharing the photos they got in their game, with all of them being different, gives the game quite a bit of replay value in that regard. It's great seeing so many different pictures.

Definitely. And it makes for great marketing, too, lol.

Tbh, I think the script there could use a bit of reworking. "You guys are the best" isn't as sad as "I love you guys" which was used in the Japanese version I believe.

Ray's voice acting was spot on though. Gladio's English voice was a bit too harsh imo. In the Japanese version, he was waaay more soft spoken and gentler.

The man's marching toward his death, a gruff commanding tone ain't suitable for that lol

Was there an equivalent to the "What can I say?" part in Japanese? Because my read on English-speaking Noct was that he was finding it almost impossible to express his feelings because of how overwhelming they were and ended up softening the heck out of everything and speaking mostly in implications because of it. In light of that, "You guys are the best" makes total sense, because it feels like less of a goodbye. And he does end up saying he loves them just before he ascends, once he's fully steeled himself for what he has to do.

Ray's voice acting was fantastic, I agree. When he said that he was legitimately crying when recording since it was pretty much the last thing he had to record for the game, it made total sense. XD;

As for Gladio, while I agree that his tone was off, I could kind of see what they were going for there, too. I mean, Gladio is the guy who was angry at Noct for not picking himself right back up and doing his duty after Luna's death, so it makes sense that he'd take a "just pull the band-aid off already" tack with regards to Noct's sacrifice. Plus, the imagery of him leaning back as tears rolled down his face made a nice juxtaposition to his seeming lack of empathy. I'd probably have preferred it if his lines were delivered a bit more ambiguously, though, like he wanted to take that gruff commanding tone but couldn't actually bring himself to do it.

 

[SonOfEtro]

As for Gladio, while I agree that his tone was off, I could kind of see what they were going for there, too. I mean, Gladio is the guy who was angry at Noct for not picking himself right back up and doing his duty after Luna's death, so it makes sense that he'd take a "just pull the band-aid off already" tack with regards to Noct's sacrifice. Plus, the imagery of him leaning back as tears rolled down his face made a nice juxtaposition to his seeming lack of empathy. I'd probably have preferred it if his lines were delivered a bit more ambiguously, though, like he wanted to take that gruff commanding tone but couldn't actually bring himself to do it.

I found it alright myself, but I agree that his English voice is a little too forceful when compared to his Japanese one. I was completely taken off guard when I saw tears there. The others were relatively composed by comparison. I was completely expecting Prompto to cry, or maybe even Ignis, but not the King's Sword and Shield.

Personally, I think the juxtaposition between Gladiolus' outward gruffness and any inner feelings would be explored better in a potential sequel.

 

[Ikkin]

I found it alright myself, but I agree that his English voice is a little too forceful when compared to his Japanese one. I was completely taken off guard when I saw tears there. The others were relatively composed by comparison. I was completely expecting Prompto to cry, or maybe even Ignis, but not the King's Sword and Shield.

Personally, I think the juxtaposition between Gladiolus' outward gruffness and any inner feelings would be explored better in a potential sequel.

To be fair, Prompto's eyes were so red and puffy that I think we were meant to assume he'd already cried his eyes out. =( And who knows whether Ignis even can cry given the damage to his eyes.

As for Gladio, DLC seems like a more likely place to get further explanation than a sequel, given Tabata's stated intentions.

 

[Jubileus]

Prompto cried. He sobbed towards the end.

Yeah I was expecting Ignis to cry but like Ikkin said, the damage to his eyes might've prevented him from doing so.

Just realised this since it's hard to see with his glasses, but Ignis's right eye is open now but his left remains closed.

 

[SonOfEtro]

Just realised this since it's hard to see with his glasses, but Ignis's right eye is open now but his left remains closed.

How very Auron of him.

 

[Jubileus]

How very Auron of him.

It makes sense as to why that is thought.

Take a look here. Gotta say he looks more badass after the time skip. He's the best designed bro after Noctis after the skip imo.

http://imgur.com/LOSuySj

 

[Ikkin]

From the FFXV Discussion thread:

Some interesting insights about the ending from Noct's VA.

It sounds like the initial take on some of the key scenes might have been a lot more melodramatic than those scenes ended up being, which I can't imagine working anywhere near as well as what we got.

Like, he mentions that they recorded a bunch of crying sounds for the campfire scene that weren't used... but the genius of that scene was that it was quiet and understated instead of soppy and in-your-face. It's the things that aren't vocalized that sell it -- the things Noct can't say, Noct's uneasy body language, the way Noct's lip trembles when he admits how he feels, Prompto's red eyes, Gladio leaning back with tears staining his cheeks -- and they're given room to breathe thanks to the absence of the usual emotional manipulation tactics. Adding sniffles and sobs would just distract from that.

And then there's the throne scene, which... well, I totally get why they might have tried a more vulnerable take first. The core tragedy of the game is that the Powers That Be have demanded the life of this kid who's barely had a chance to live in the first place for reasons he doesn't fully understand, and he isn't some idealized hero figure who can just roll with it. But, thinking about it, showing him weeping in his last moments probably would have felt too much like an attempt at soliciting audience pity to have the intended effect. And while, as Ray said, the final take is much more resolved, there's still a certain amount of quiet desperation there that makes it feel rather ambiguous. His lines get stronger as he steels himself and he thunders out the command that seals his sacrifice, but his last words are practically a plea -- "Dad, trust in me." He needs Regis to stop looking away, support him, and take his life, because that will make what he's going through manageable.

Besides, if Regis had slain Noct while he wept, it would have felt monstrous. As it is, it's a deeply ambivalent moment that compounds the tragedy from both sides.

 

[SonOfEtro]

The core tragedy of the game is that the Powers That Be have demanded the life of this kid who's barely had a chance to live in the first place for reasons he doesn't fully understand, and he isn't some idealized hero figure who can just roll with it.

When I realised that at the end of the game, I hated the Astrals and their dratted Crystal. Why couldn't they solve their own problems is they're so almighty, rather than dragging humans in to clear up their messes. I mean, Bahamut and Shiva easily destroyed Ifrit's manifested form towards the end, so why couldn't they just do that earlier, seal him away, and then Bahamut purge the Scarscourge without involving Ardyn and the first Oracle in their squabble.

It's what makes me still feel that the Astrals are bound by some higher power against taking such drastic action against their own. I hope the Crystal broke or waned at the end and the Astrals went back to whatever invisible realm they came from. Humanity needed to be free of them, they'd caused nothing but grief.

 

[Ikkin]

When I realised that at the end of the game, I hated the Astrals and their dratted Crystal. Why couldn't they solve their own problems is they're so almighty, rather than dragging humans in to clear up their messes. I mean, Bahamut and Shiva easily destroyed Ifrit's manifested form towards the end, so why couldn't they just do that earlier, seal him away, and then Bahamut purge the Scarscourge without involving Ardyn and the first Oracle in their squabble.

It's what makes me still feel that the Astrals are bound by some higher power against taking such drastic action against their own. I hope the Crystal broke or waned at the end and the Astrals went back to whatever invisible realm they came from. Humanity needed to be free of them, they'd caused nothing but grief.

I thought the game made it clear that the Astrals weren't "so almighty" -- Bahamut said that the power of Providence required to wipe out Ardyn and restore light to the world was greater than that of the Astrals, so I assumed that the Astrals were never able to wipe out the Starscourge by themselves in the first place. As for Ifrit, I don't think there was any reason to believe that he was an active force in the world between the end of the Astrals' war and Ardyn waking him to fight Noct; the other Astrals did seal him away, but they were too late to prevent the Starscourge.

The Crystal contained "the soul of the Star" (which I take to mean, "basically Kingdom Hearts") so I don't think it could have just been destroyed. I figured that the Crystal's light was dispersed throughout the world when Noct activated the power of Providence, which would have probably been the best result anyone could have hoped for. Using the power of Providence required the full light of the Crystal to be bestowed on the Ring and the Ring to be consumed, so that seems like a natural consequence.

I didn't really get the impression that the Astrals (apart from Ifrit) or the Crystal were inherently bad, though. They're not the Occuria; they're a bit callous with regards to individual human lives, but they do seem to act in the best interest of the world as a whole. The world's just broken in general, and poor Noct happens to get stuck being the one whose blood is the price that must be paid to fix it. =(

 

[SonOfEtro]

@Ikkin, interesting and probably right. I'm still wondering what "Providence" is. Bahamut refers to it, and I remember Leviathan being described as "close to the gods", not strictly as a goddess herself.

 

[Ikkin]

@Ikkin, interesting and probably right. I'm still wondering what "Providence" is. Bahamut refers to it, and I remember Leviathan being described as "close to the gods", not strictly as a goddess herself.

I kind of assumed it was just referring to the combined power that Noct was able to wield, sourced from both the Crystal (which was, according to the Ultimania, produced by the planet) through the Ring of the Lucii (provided by the Astrals) and the Power of Kings (granted to the line of Lucis by the Astrals and refined through human generations). Kind of a fusion between divine and human power wielded by the Chosen King, I guess.

The Astrals are definitely referred to as gods in-universe, but I don't really get the impression that they created the world or that they're the highest powers out there. It's entirely possible that there could be a creator figure above them who simply isn't mentioned (kind of like how the Valar are super important in Middle Earth lore but they're subordinate to Eru, who only directly appears in the world creation story). Or maybe the planet itself is the highest power. *shrugs*

 

[All Hail King Bimpy]

I kind of assumed it was just referring to the combined power that Noct was able to wield, sourced from both the Crystal (which was, according to the Ultimania, produced by the planet) through the Ring of the Lucii (provided by the Astrals) and the Power of Kings (granted to the line of Lucis by the Astrals and refined through human generations). Kind of a fusion between divine and human power wielded by the Chosen King, I guess.

The Astrals are definitely referred to as gods in-universe, but I don't really get the impression that they created the world or that they're the highest powers out there. It's entirely possible that there could be a creator figure above them who simply isn't mentioned (kind of like how the Valar are super important in Middle Earth lore but they're subordinate to Eru, who only directly appears in the world creation story). Or maybe the planet itself is the highest power. *shrugs*

We do know the Astrals are the physical manifestations of the stars, but have no idea as to why aside from this is how Eos works just like a white light created energy beings in the Green Lantern verse cuz that's how DC works.

We can infer they are refereed to as deities because of the effects they have on Eos (granting superpowers, controlling environments, caused Starscourg) l+ their otherworldy biology (they're alive still after death). They are too far out there for man to mix them into the pile of local wildlife. Is there a higher power above them? I think the question is what evidence supports that thought? Because I can't find any. The more I think about Astrals compared to the traditional epic fantasy mythology (verse creator god - sub gods, sub gods create the blah blah races, one sub god turns "evil", aka trickister" and tempts the man race, etc) the more mysterious they become. It's hard to get a grasp on what they really are because compared to Tolken's or say Elder Scroll's the details for them sound vague. That plays up their above everyone else's compression angle. The downside we naturally want to learn the heavy details.

well one thing is for sure. Magic shouldn't exist anymore... everyone who was connected to the Astrals are dead while the Astrals are all dead. their weapons are lost or destroyed

 

[Ikkin]

well one thing is for sure. Magic shouldn't exist anymore... everyone who was connected to the Astrals are dead while the Astrals are all dead. their weapons are lost or destroyed

I could see an argument for magic to continue to exist through the light of the Crystal spread throughout the world by Noct's use of Providence. *shrugs* That's an "anything could happen" moment if I ever saw one.

It's also sort of meaningless for the Astrals to be dead when they clearly continued to act in the world once their mortal forms were slain. The only real question is whether their influence vanished once their calling was fulfilled.

 

[Storm]

so anyone really thought about the meaning of the name of the final quest? The Cure for Insomnia... the cure of a person that can't sleep, Noctis killing Ardyn is basically him putting an end to his immortality... Ardyn can finally sleep.

 

[Paperchampion23]

so anyone really thought about the meaning of the name of the final quest? The Cure for Insomnia... the cure of a person that can't sleep, Noctis killing Ardyn is basically him putting an end to his immortality... Ardyn can finally sleep.

Yea this totally makes sense. Hopefully with the story expansions and the Ardyn DLC they can make this much more concrete and really play on the tragedy of his character.