What is that, Ifrit? Diabolos? A random mook? I don't know! Third base!

[DrBretto]

Moved this from the delay thread since it shouldn't go there:

Maybe if it was Ifrit the guys were fighting in the beginning of Chapter 0, I would concede... but it's not... So, you weren't right about anything worth mentioning.

Oh come on, even you don't believe this.

This is chaos, the character people are theorizing is the entity on the throne:

I'm going with the assumption that this is what you think as well.

But, I don't see those wings, man. I just see horns like these (opposite direction from Chaos) :

Now, you are free to believe it's Chaos, as there's nothing conclusive here. But you definitely can't rule out Ifrit, either. And, it doesn't matter. The leaker described exactly this. It doesn't matter if he thought it was Ifrit and it turns out to be Chaos. It's clear that he had inside information and that is definitely significant.

You're my favorite poster on this board, but your response is disappointing.

 

[LeonBlade]

Moved this from the delay thread since it shouldn't go there:



Oh come on, even you don't believe this.

This is chaos, the character people are theorizing is the entity on the throne:

I'm going with the assumption that this is what you think as well.

But, I don't see those wings, man. I just see horns like these (opposite direction from Chaos) :

Now, you are free to believe it's Chaos, as there's nothing conclusive here. But you definitely can't rule out Ifrit, either. And, it doesn't matter. The leaker described exactly this. It doesn't matter if he thought it was Ifrit and it turns out to be Chaos. It's clear that he had inside information and that is definitely significant.

You're my favorite poster on this board, but your response is disappointing.

It very well could be Ifrit, but it doesn't make sense that he would be there. Mainly though, I'm just wondering why no one that's played through Chapter 0 has called him Ifrit though.

 

[DrBretto]

I imagine it's because people don't know what to think yet, lol.

My guess is, it's Ifrit-related but not quite Ifrit. Like Ifrit's first form or something along those lines.

 

[Death Penalty]

It very well could be Ifrit, but it doesn't make sense that he would be there. Mainly though, I'm just wondering why no one that's played through Chapter 0 has called him Ifrit though.

I'm just curious, why doesn't it make sense? I don't feel we have the context necessary to determine that...

 

[Lulcielid]

Assuming this entity is "final boss/big bad" material, why Ifrit of all possible creatures? Why not Chaos or I don't know, Bahamuth?

 

[DrBretto]

Assuming this entity is "final boss/big bad" material, why Ifrit of all possible creatures? Why not Chaos or I don't know, Bahamuth?

If it is Ifrit, I guess we'll find out when we have a story to go with it.

I mean, I dunno. They've already mentioned that summons are ranked in tiers. Maybe the story is Ifrit got tired of being lower tier so he conspired with Ardyn. I mean, that's just one random example. I'm sure you could come up with your own. It could be as simple as in this world, Ifrit is the man. In FFIV, Leviathan was the king of the summons. In FFXV, she's female. There are no rules in FF.

 

[Death Penalty]

I'm pretty sure the tiers thing is gone and all the Astrals are of a similar level of power. Think like XIII- few summons, equally powerful. I also think that, though this figure that may or may not be Ifrit is situated in Insomnia where the endgame possibly takes place, he's probably not the final boss but one of several bosses in the climax.

The evidence for it being Ifrit is stacking up pretty handily, though I myself am still not one hundred percent certain. The dominion over flame which was previously disputed is now quite clear, it's also evident that this is a unique entity and not some random enemy fought by the party in the end game. Given that we know one Astral has a redesign we might find shocking, I think Ifrit is a pretty good possibility here.

 

[Nye]

All I know is that entity reminds me so much of this concept art

The one on the left reminds me so much of the boss they are fighting, I am not sure whether he is Ifrit, Chaos, or Diablos but one thing for sure is that guy didn't pull that information out of thin air. The rest of his claims though remains unconfirmed, I am partially hoping its not true but lets see.

 

[LeonBlade]

If it is Ifrit, I guess we'll find out when we have a story to go with it.

I mean, I dunno. They've already mentioned that summons are ranked in tiers. Maybe the story is Ifrit got tired of being lower tier so he conspired with Ardyn. I mean, that's just one random example. I'm sure you could come up with your own. It could be as simple as in this world, Ifrit is the man. In FFIV, Leviathan was the king of the summons. In FFXV, she's female. There are no rules in FF.

Astrals don't care about human affairs, why would a Guardian of the planet give two shits about a ranking system when their entire motives lie with protecting the Planet? Why conspire with a human when they don't care about these things in the first place? Ifrit would make a pretty shitty guardian of the planet if he was able to be convinced to go to the "dark side". These are Gods we're talking about, not humans.

He certainly looks a lot more like Ifrit than the creature we saw before in the GIF though. I don't even think they're the same, but I don't see why they wouldn't be. There's of course the sword as well, which I don't think is present here? Not really sure what the deal is with this sequence.

 

[DrBretto]

Dude, the point was that it could be anything. I wasn't arguing for that particular scenario. I spent roughly 13 seconds coming up with that. It could be anything for any reason.

 

[LeonBlade]

Dude, the point was that it could be anything. I wasn't arguing for that particular scenario. I spent roughly 13 seconds coming up with that. It could be anything for any reason.

Don't waste my time.

Edit: I apologized over my comment here, please disregard this message.

 

[Death Penalty]

Astrals don't care about human affairs, why would a Guardian of the planet give two shits about a ranking system when their entire motives lie with protecting the Planet? Why conspire with a human when they don't care about these things in the first place? Ifrit would make a pretty shitty guardian of the planet if he was able to be convinced to go to the "dark side". These are Gods we're talking about, not humans.

He certainly looks a lot more like Ifrit than the creature we saw before in the GIF though. I don't even think they're the same, but I don't see why they wouldn't be. There's of course the sword as well, which I don't think is present here? Not really sure what the deal is with this sequence.

I agree with you that a lot of this is potentially confusing due to the lack of information we have. I also agree that the figure in the GIF looks like it could either be or not be the entity on the throne. The main part where I diverge is the interpretation of what Tabata meant when he said the Astrals are above human affairs. It sounds more like they don't care what human holds political power or whether there's a war going on or not, not that they choose never to interact with humans under any circumstances. They must find it at least somewhat worth their while, or human Oracles like Luna are an absurd notion. On top of that, we know Titan specifically calls out to Noctis and Leviathan seems to have some pretty strong negative feelings about Noctis with Luna trying to convince her otherwise. If they consort with humans through Luna and with Noctis for aid (Ardyn describes Titan's calling Noctis as a 'plea') and each Astral is an individual with varying motives, it stands to reason an Astral who does not like Noctis, Lucis, the crystal or even just the status quo might align with his enemies for its own end. After all, he convinces a bunch of Astrals to help him in his quest. Couldn't an enemy do the same?

 

[LeonBlade]

I agree with you that a lot of this is potentially confusing due to the lack of information we have. I also agree that the figure in the GIF looks like it could either be or not be the entity on the throne. The main part where I diverge is the interpretation of what Tabata meant when he said the Astrals are above human affairs. It sounds more like they don't care what human holds political power or whether there's a war going on or not, not that they choose never to interact with humans under any circumstances. They must find it at least somewhat worth their while, or human Oracles like Luna are an absurd notion. On top of that, we know Titan specifically calls out to Noctis and Leviathan seems to have some pretty strong negative feelings about Noctis with Luna trying to convince her otherwise. If they consort with humans through Luna and with Noctis for aid (Ardyn describes Titan's calling Noctis as a 'plea') and each Astral is an individual with varying motives, it stands to reason an Astral who does not like Noctis, Lucis, the crystal or even just the status quo might align with his enemies for its own end. After all, he convinces a bunch of Astrals to help him in his quest. Couldn't an enemy do the same?

Well, we know that not everyone can speak with the Astrals to begin with. Noctis is gifted and Luna is an Oracle who is gifted/trained for this purpose. So, that's a huge element to this whole thing. I imagine the idea of the Astrals being resistant to Noctis comes with them not trusting that Noctis will be able to save the world, and therefore they don't want to assist him. You're right that an Astral could align itself with anyone, but the main problem I have with that is that they are Guardians of the planet, they've existed since the planet's beginning.

Archaeans are physical manifestations of the power of the stars. It is hinted in Final Fantasy: Episode Duscae that they are connected to the world's deities and the creation of the world itself. Archaeans are intelligent creatures; they have their own agendas and speak their own language. They play an integral role in the world and lore of Final Fantasy XV but are indifferent to human affairs. Their behavior cannot be interpreted because their thought patterns are far beyond the comprehension of mankind.

The Astrals are far beyond human comprehension as it states here, and are only summonable by Noctis as said previously. Why would a Guardian of Eos, who in part created the planet, align with someone who is out to destroy the planet? The Plague of the Stars is a plot element in this game that hasn't been explained at all yet, even by the leakers (probably because it's too hot of a topic to touch). The Plague of the Stars connects with the stars, the Astrals being the manifestations of the powers of the stars. This means that an Astral siding with evil would be like suicide to an extent. There doesn't seem to be any motive for Ifrit to align with anyone other than Noctis as foretold by the prophesy.

Of course, there's still much we don't know, anything is possible. I'm glad that you took the time to write out something with substance that can be debated and discussed.

 

[Death Penalty]

Well, we know that not everyone can speak with the Astrals to begin with. Noctis is gifted and Luna is an Oracle who is gifted/trained for this purpose. So, that's a huge element to this whole thing. I imagine the idea of the Astrals being resistant to Noctis comes with them not trusting that Noctis will be able to save the world, and therefore they don't want to assist him. You're right that an Astral could align itself with anyone, but the main problem I have with that is that they are Guardians of the planet, they've existed since the planet's beginning.

The Astrals are far beyond human comprehension as it states here, and are only summonable by Noctis as said previously. Why would a Guardian of Eos, who in part created the planet, align with someone who is out to destroy the planet? The Plague of the Stars is a plot element in this game that hasn't been explained at all yet, even by the leakers (probably because it's too hot of a topic to touch). The Plague of the Stars connects with the stars, the Astrals being the manifestations of the powers of the stars. This means that an Astral siding with evil would be like suicide to an extent. There doesn't seem to be any motive for Ifrit to align with anyone other than Noctis as foretold by the prophesy.

Of course, there's still much we don't know, anything is possible. I'm glad that you took the time to write out something with substance that can be debated and discussed.

No problem! I like a good discussion and your logic is fairly sound here. I'd argue though that the idea of a fallen god/angel/whatever is a pretty common trope even in JRPGs themselves. Maybe this Astral wants to wipe out humans. Maybe this Astral even wants to destroy the world and remake it. It's possible that the Plague of Stars is not harmful to Astrals or even that an Astral could be corrupted or otherwise destructive enough to welcome it. This Astral doesn't even necessarily have to be rooting for the Plague of Stars; if this Astral is helping Niflheim hold Lucis they could have plenty of reasons for doing so. They might have struck a pact with Niflheim, they might hate Noctis or be aligned against his goals, or they might even just be giving Noctis the most difficult trial of his life at the worst possible time. There's a lot of options here, and plenty of good consistent explanations for why an Astral being the individual it is might choose to fight Noctis.

 

[Rogue-Tomato]

Looks like a feminine version of Ifrit. Usually Ifrit is depicted as quite buff, and ''manly''

 

[DrBretto]

Don't waste my time.

Read the whole post and you won't waste your own time, I guess. It's pretty clear what my point is.

Edit: we took it to PM's. We're buds still, lol.

 

[Noctisfan]

The guy who said it was from FF1 was right.

 

[Tornak]

So we see the character's health bars and such. Unless they're there in a testimonial way (and got erased from the build they were showing) or this is the actual fight once you get to ending part of the game, there's going to be a short battle once you begin, right? Like in FF II, a battle you can't really win.

So something longer than what they showed (I don't expect it to be much longer if this is true, though).

Also, I haven't read the spoilers expect for a couple of them I unfortunately stumbled upon and... well, I don't really know. I think he's going to be related to Ifrit in some way, but considering Leviathan looks like an actual giant sea serpent, I kinda expected Ifrit to look more like his usual self. But again, FFs always change in that regard, and Tabata said that one of the Astrals would have a different design this time around or something among those lines, so...

 

[LeonBlade]

Just wanted to post this here, not sure how relevant it is to this convo though.

https://twitter.com/ffxven/status/766351963378315264

 

[Noctisfan]

didn't get the part about Noctis and Luna's relationship being like Yuna and Tidus'. Is it or is it not? (I want a kiss!)