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Nomura jumped before he was pushed, it's pretty obvious. The thing is, he's still valuable to Square, so he's being given 'token' roles on a various projects and his art used because he's iconic. I think all his real power has probably been removed now, though -- which isn't dissimilar to what happened to Sakaguchi after TSW, turned into a powerless figurehead.
In a very personal opinion, I can understand the fear some of you may feel -for real-, but I feel none :S
I mean, we're coming from a series of games (XII, XIII saga, Versus XIII, XIV 1.0) regarded as not meeting the expected quality a FF (or a Square game) should have, as dropped ideas or as failures because of SE practices: its secretism, excessive ego, et cetera; but now we're watching a process were the development team is sharing its efforts, knowledge and intentions, being honest about the process itself and being open enough to let us, the users/gamers/buyers/people, share our opinion about a game that's in development; an opinion that's been heard for that matter.
I know it's disappointing that some ideas from the Nomura's Versus XIII era are being dropped, but it's also very encouraging --for me, at least-- that we can feel ourselves as a part of this process, even if a tiny part. That's why, while I also am disappointed for them dropping Stella and some other themes from this game (blood), I still think it's gonna be a very good game, with an identity and not something improvised like some of the games we've seen from SE lately (XIII-2, LR).
I still have hope! (and hype).
I mean, we're coming from a series of games (XII, XIII saga, Versus XIII, XIV 1.0) regarded as not meeting the expected quality a FF (or a Square game) should have, as dropped ideas or as failures because of SE practices: its secretism, excessive ego, et cetera; but now we're watching a process were the development team is sharing its efforts, knowledge and intentions, being honest about the process itself and being open enough to let us, the users/gamers/buyers/people, share our opinion about a game that's in development; an opinion that's been heard for that matter.
I know it's disappointing that some ideas from the Nomura's Versus XIII era are being dropped, but it's also very encouraging --for me, at least-- that we can feel ourselves as a part of this process, even if a tiny part. That's why, while I also am disappointed for them dropping Stella and some other themes from this game (blood), I still think it's gonna be a very good game, with an identity and not something improvised like some of the games we've seen from SE lately (XIII-2, LR).
I still have hope! (and hype).
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Prince Naphtali and Rin
Lunafreya is a essentially a heavily re-imagined version of Stella Nox Fleure; both contrast with the way Noct and his friends talk, what we've heard of Luna is, like her predecessor, very formal and polite. She even calls Noct "Noctis-sama", even though they've apparently known each other since childhood! This is called keigo - a Japanese speech register containing the language's more polite forms of address. Luna is also an ojou - a Japanese word for young lady.It is typically used in anime when referring to wealthy, high-class female characters.
Now disarming Luna's importance at the sacrifice of Stella is foolish when this character has less details than even Stella did for years! It is easy to say Luna sucks because Stella had potential to be interesting, yet there is nothing on Luna's connection to the wider plot. Already I asserted she has the keigo and ojou qualities associated with Stella. They are both Nox Fleurets. They both wear a white ensemble.The motes of light around them allude to the their powers.
The similarities stop there.
Nilfheim killed Luna, unknown to them she makes it out alive. A woman in white is mystifying and elegant. Episode Duscae's stinger, though,is pretty savage to that notion, showing her usual dress dress blackened with soot as it falls apart in the wake of Insomnia's invasion. Even in the face of death she keeps on moving, which makes her a determiner in terms of survival.
There is a ship tease. She's still associated heavily with Noctis (the 2,013 reveal opened with them as children and some lines from her directed at him, in the "character line-up" she's directly across from him, et cetera). Most of all she is referred to, in a teasing manner, as Noct's date at one point by Prompto. Luna causally gets mentioned in banter during Episode Duscae. Luna has a gift for Noctis -
. Nomura onced said the ring Noctis wears is important to the story. Is this how Tabta translates that vision?
Anything else is N/A. Please do not jump to conclusions.
Now disarming Luna's importance at the sacrifice of Stella is foolish when this character has less details than even Stella did for years! It is easy to say Luna sucks because Stella had potential to be interesting, yet there is nothing on Luna's connection to the wider plot. Already I asserted she has the keigo and ojou qualities associated with Stella. They are both Nox Fleurets. They both wear a white ensemble.The motes of light around them allude to the their powers.
The similarities stop there.
Nilfheim killed Luna, unknown to them she makes it out alive. A woman in white is mystifying and elegant. Episode Duscae's stinger, though,is pretty savage to that notion, showing her usual dress dress blackened with soot as it falls apart in the wake of Insomnia's invasion. Even in the face of death she keeps on moving, which makes her a determiner in terms of survival.
There is a ship tease. She's still associated heavily with Noctis (the 2,013 reveal opened with them as children and some lines from her directed at him, in the "character line-up" she's directly across from him, et cetera). Most of all she is referred to, in a teasing manner, as Noct's date at one point by Prompto. Luna causally gets mentioned in banter during Episode Duscae. Luna has a gift for Noctis -
Instead of meeting the the heroine for the first time at a party, Noctis already knew her from some time ago.
Anything else is N/A. Please do not jump to conclusions.
This will be the last thing i will say regarding Stella/Luna and the changes between VersusXIII and FFXV. (maybe this deserves a thread of its own)
As some of us have already said, with the former character/game we have very obscure data about what was supposed to be compare to XV, so making a judge is not possible.
While Nomura´s initialy vision of VersusXIII is what caught our attention, there was no guarantee that it could actually turn good and be flawless, here is where i´ll use the skeptical faction of the fandom.
There is(was) the possibility that certain elemets of Nomura´s vision could had been poorly flesh out and executed or not makeing sense at all, this is something that no director is inmune at all, even the greatest can big mistakes. Some changes may have been done so that the game it could stand on its own, and i´ll say it again, there was the possibility that VersusXIII could not stand on its own because of certain Nomura´s vision.
Think about that statement for a moment please....
Whether we want to believe this is a Nomura´s game or Tabata´s or if VersusXIII concept was better that XV is now, is up to us to decide.
Me personally i´m still us excited as i was back in 2006 and that hasn´t changed at all and still hope the best for the game that Nomura and Tabata minds are creating.
To finish this my hype level concurrently is : XV/10.
As some of us have already said, with the former character/game we have very obscure data about what was supposed to be compare to XV, so making a judge is not possible.
While Nomura´s initialy vision of VersusXIII is what caught our attention, there was no guarantee that it could actually turn good and be flawless, here is where i´ll use the skeptical faction of the fandom.
There is(was) the possibility that certain elemets of Nomura´s vision could had been poorly flesh out and executed or not makeing sense at all, this is something that no director is inmune at all, even the greatest can big mistakes. Some changes may have been done so that the game it could stand on its own, and i´ll say it again, there was the possibility that VersusXIII could not stand on its own because of certain Nomura´s vision.
Think about that statement for a moment please....
Whether we want to believe this is a Nomura´s game or Tabata´s or if VersusXIII concept was better that XV is now, is up to us to decide.
Me personally i´m still us excited as i was back in 2006 and that hasn´t changed at all and still hope the best for the game that Nomura and Tabata minds are creating.
To finish this my hype level concurrently is : XV/10.
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It's a trope that Final Fantasy XV grimmed up. Stella and Luna are yes both women in white; they meet the requirements except the latter is a much more darker take in contrast to Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Luna being wounded after an attack by a genocidal nation still has the courage to walk outside Lucis where it's more likely safer. She could have easily gave up so the hero can come to the rescue but when survival comes into play she keeps on moving. Yes that is determination. i am simply pointing out the difference between these two characters based on everything reveled. whats good or bad about them i dunno *shrugs*. game isnt out. i dont have FFVS13 or FF15's script
theres nothing overblown about what i see and assert. it is what it is. whats overblown is how the fanbase hypes up a character nomura hardly ever went into detail before. my point is we should be focused on luna, not deprecated characters unless those characters had actual details and not just vague ones! also we should not use straw man logic against luna. shes the new heroine. end of story. stay tuned to hear more info. or speculate once again
theres nothing overblown about what i see and assert. it is what it is. whats overblown is how the fanbase hypes up a character nomura hardly ever went into detail before. my point is we should be focused on luna, not deprecated characters unless those characters had actual details and not just vague ones! also we should not use straw man logic against luna. shes the new heroine. end of story. stay tuned to hear more info. or speculate once again
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My two cents on this:
Yes I was also shocked when Tabata announced that she was scrapped yesterday and I'm even more sad about the fact that they scrapped the party scene and the (playable) invasion of Insomnia...especially that they didn't say it outright after the announcement of Luna. But tbh I think they just absolutely underestimated the importance of Stella for some of us hardcore fans. By the time the Episode Duscae survey went live they were probably oerwhelmed by the many Stella requests.
It was extremely late but it's a good thing that they finally cleared this out of the way.
And that's what I think happened:
Stella was most likely heavily involved in the L'Cie stuff which probably was a key element of the versus XIII/early XV storyline. When they decided to get rid of the L'Cie elements ( first announced by Tabata after the re-re-reveal in 2014) they just didn't know what to do with Stella anymore. The whole "a world of the versus epic" stuff was also scrapped between the end of 2013 and early 2014 if you didn't notice. They want to create a game now that stands on its own without any expansions later on and that is a really good thing in my opinion. We don't know how the story was back then but they likely had to somehow shrunk it down for that reason and make it more coherent for a single game.
That's of course only speculation but I think it's a reasonable explanation for what happened. And keep in mind that they certainly don't change things just to make you angry.
All in all .......let's just wait and see. I'm still super super excited for the game and I trust them in what they're doing.
Yes I was also shocked when Tabata announced that she was scrapped yesterday and I'm even more sad about the fact that they scrapped the party scene and the (playable) invasion of Insomnia...especially that they didn't say it outright after the announcement of Luna. But tbh I think they just absolutely underestimated the importance of Stella for some of us hardcore fans. By the time the Episode Duscae survey went live they were probably oerwhelmed by the many Stella requests.
It was extremely late but it's a good thing that they finally cleared this out of the way.
And that's what I think happened:
Stella was most likely heavily involved in the L'Cie stuff which probably was a key element of the versus XIII/early XV storyline. When they decided to get rid of the L'Cie elements ( first announced by Tabata after the re-re-reveal in 2014) they just didn't know what to do with Stella anymore. The whole "a world of the versus epic" stuff was also scrapped between the end of 2013 and early 2014 if you didn't notice. They want to create a game now that stands on its own without any expansions later on and that is a really good thing in my opinion. We don't know how the story was back then but they likely had to somehow shrunk it down for that reason and make it more coherent for a single game.
That's of course only speculation but I think it's a reasonable explanation for what happened. And keep in mind that they certainly don't change things just to make you angry.
All in all .......let's just wait and see. I'm still super super excited for the game and I trust them in what they're doing.
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It's not really overblown. It's just people like yourself thinking that some are getting upset over nothing when that's not really the case.
People were excited about an idea that was nicely presented in trailers and what Nomura had to say about the concept afterwards. They're not disappointed about the finer details we know nothing about. They're disappointed because it was an appealing concept that showed great potential and now they'll never get to see the end result of it.
This isn't just about Stella either. Scrapping her will have an effect on other areas as well. You don't just simply pull out a character and plug in a new one and expect everything else to work properly as it should. Everything else is going to need a bit of revising as well and it has to make logical sense. We may not know the deeper details about Stella but the developers do and I'm pretty sure they had a nice amount of content created for her.
My concern basically comes down to experiencing consistency with the writing and then all of the sudden things take a nasty shit for some strange reason.
People were excited about an idea that was nicely presented in trailers and what Nomura had to say about the concept afterwards. They're not disappointed about the finer details we know nothing about. They're disappointed because it was an appealing concept that showed great potential and now they'll never get to see the end result of it.
This isn't just about Stella either. Scrapping her will have an effect on other areas as well. You don't just simply pull out a character and plug in a new one and expect everything else to work properly as it should. Everything else is going to need a bit of revising as well and it has to make logical sense. We may not know the deeper details about Stella but the developers do and I'm pretty sure they had a nice amount of content created for her.
My concern basically comes down to experiencing consistency with the writing and then all of the sudden things take a nasty shit for some strange reason.
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yeah_93
That seems to be the reason. Considering that none of the team was actually able to "make sense" of her character? Even sans the narrative alterations.
A lot of this concern is definitely overblown, to me, at least. Especially if your concern is in the consistency of the writing, her character's removal seemed to be a result of inconsistency within the current narrative.
A lot of this concern is definitely overblown, to me, at least. Especially if your concern is in the consistency of the writing, her character's removal seemed to be a result of inconsistency within the current narrative.
I'm talking about when I play FFXV. The end product. I'm hoping that as I play it, I don't encounter something about the writing that feels off because of all these changes being made. Again, it's not just about Stella. They're going to have to revise other things too and make sure it all works properly.
You are upset about a concept you know nothing about -___-. She was a puppet character, a ghost, a nobody without FINER DETAILS and finer details is all that matters. There's no ifs and or buts about that fact. Eight sentences collectively taken from different interviews by Nomura - " Yes she is the main female character. If people have seen my work before, they will know that there is few description on the female characters. She is the first female character that will stand out from all previous Final Fantasy's.She is a very polite girl. She will not say those things to someone who she's met for the first time. To express this characteristic, the way she speaks will have some prominent trait. She's polite, so she doesn't say the case in their first meeting. Besides that, I wanted to emphasize her well upbringing, there's something characteristic about the way she speaks."- and a fan dub over a voiceless scene led to emotions for Stella. Let them go. WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN is irrelevant to FF15. You do not know WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN. You can speculate and hype up the potential for something interesting based on that speculation. But hanging onto the past it is not healthy, especially if Tabata keeps on moving towards the future.
I can only say this so many times. FFVS13 was revamped, stop looking at it. Why would you put exceptions in place thinking FF15 would be a copy and paste of every bit of narrative previously left over in the same exact manner? Nomura wanted an entire saga. Square Enix's president wants a single story.
Adaption theory posits that when a work piece (i.e. - novel) gains new life in another medium (i.e. - video game), something from the former shall change, and such change is inevitable whether the audience appreciates it or not. On the other hand, those who became religiously attached to the original work piece may condemn a revamp of it as a travesty, putting blame on anyone in charge; they want nothing more than anonymous director to reflect a word-for-word transcription, with utmost care that each character and their arc, setting and its lore, and conflict be reproduced in detail matching the original work piece. If not accomplished then they take the Chicken Little approach. THE SKY IS FALLING.
Confusion mixed with frustration is an expression of their fears that the staff doesn't care much about the original work piece. The consequences leave naysayers averse to losing all aspects of what came first, compared to the enjoyment gained from improvements.
Yes naysayers have a point with their rants if changes, drastic or small, hurt the final product in the context its given. Outside that context, the changes may make the original work piece unrecognizable.
Why am I bringing up adaption theory despite Tabta not adapting? Because the theory is still applicable to ongoing works where one person leaves for another to fill in their shoes - "This is not the exact same game. The director is different, and the platform was switched to the current gen. And because the platform has changed, there were things we had to re-evaluate, like what we can and cannot do or even what we have to do. The various circumstances are different." Tabata already said last year FF15 is different, but obviously evidence also shows he still keeps the core elements that made FF1VS13 the game Nomura dreamed of: fantasy based on reality, road trip, dark and edgy tropes, light hearted moments, tragedy, family/friend dynamics, locations still the same based on their previous revel, etc. Stella's role was always N/A apart from being a force in opposition to Noctis. How important is that role to the revamp of FFVS13's story? Apparently it doesn't fit well like a puzzle piece and Tababta had a hard time making sense of her as an individual in the new context. We have to look at the new context. Not the old context. Without details on the old context we can not judge everything we know about the new context via compare and contrast. It's just grasping straws.... Consistency is irrelevant to your concerns for Stella because Luna replaces Stella. Whatever Stella was changed to fit Luna, who Tabta claims fits the story he is now using. Stella fits the old story. She was who she was and we will never learn any details right now. Luna is who she is and we will learn details later on. The canon has been tweaked to fall in with Luna. That is nothing to get angry over until the final game releases; if there's a massive gaps between Luna and everyone else then yes Tabata messed up. You are afraid of continuity errors by holding FFVS13 as the standard for FF15. That's fine. Would everything else be messed up because Stella disappeared? I accept Stella's connection is irrelevant to the new canon, so I'm not so cynical. That is more so because the new canon hasn't gotten rid of everything important. I say get over it and stay tuned for more information like I do; it leads to less frustration. Go with things and judge them in their context rather than clinging onto what you wanted to see. Right now there's not enough details to judge Luna based on the old context (Stella). I can paraphrase scenes and their tropes, but thats about it. And thats what I was doing here.
I think we should be most worried about translations. and better voice acting! BATMAN NOCTIS
I can only say this so many times. FFVS13 was revamped, stop looking at it. Why would you put exceptions in place thinking FF15 would be a copy and paste of every bit of narrative previously left over in the same exact manner? Nomura wanted an entire saga. Square Enix's president wants a single story.
Adaption theory posits that when a work piece (i.e. - novel) gains new life in another medium (i.e. - video game), something from the former shall change, and such change is inevitable whether the audience appreciates it or not. On the other hand, those who became religiously attached to the original work piece may condemn a revamp of it as a travesty, putting blame on anyone in charge; they want nothing more than anonymous director to reflect a word-for-word transcription, with utmost care that each character and their arc, setting and its lore, and conflict be reproduced in detail matching the original work piece. If not accomplished then they take the Chicken Little approach. THE SKY IS FALLING.
Confusion mixed with frustration is an expression of their fears that the staff doesn't care much about the original work piece. The consequences leave naysayers averse to losing all aspects of what came first, compared to the enjoyment gained from improvements.
Yes naysayers have a point with their rants if changes, drastic or small, hurt the final product in the context its given. Outside that context, the changes may make the original work piece unrecognizable.
Why am I bringing up adaption theory despite Tabta not adapting? Because the theory is still applicable to ongoing works where one person leaves for another to fill in their shoes - "This is not the exact same game. The director is different, and the platform was switched to the current gen. And because the platform has changed, there were things we had to re-evaluate, like what we can and cannot do or even what we have to do. The various circumstances are different." Tabata already said last year FF15 is different, but obviously evidence also shows he still keeps the core elements that made FF1VS13 the game Nomura dreamed of: fantasy based on reality, road trip, dark and edgy tropes, light hearted moments, tragedy, family/friend dynamics, locations still the same based on their previous revel, etc. Stella's role was always N/A apart from being a force in opposition to Noctis. How important is that role to the revamp of FFVS13's story? Apparently it doesn't fit well like a puzzle piece and Tababta had a hard time making sense of her as an individual in the new context. We have to look at the new context. Not the old context. Without details on the old context we can not judge everything we know about the new context via compare and contrast. It's just grasping straws.... Consistency is irrelevant to your concerns for Stella because Luna replaces Stella. Whatever Stella was changed to fit Luna, who Tabta claims fits the story he is now using. Stella fits the old story. She was who she was and we will never learn any details right now. Luna is who she is and we will learn details later on. The canon has been tweaked to fall in with Luna. That is nothing to get angry over until the final game releases; if there's a massive gaps between Luna and everyone else then yes Tabata messed up. You are afraid of continuity errors by holding FFVS13 as the standard for FF15. That's fine. Would everything else be messed up because Stella disappeared? I accept Stella's connection is irrelevant to the new canon, so I'm not so cynical. That is more so because the new canon hasn't gotten rid of everything important. I say get over it and stay tuned for more information like I do; it leads to less frustration. Go with things and judge them in their context rather than clinging onto what you wanted to see. Right now there's not enough details to judge Luna based on the old context (Stella). I can paraphrase scenes and their tropes, but thats about it. And thats what I was doing here.
I think we should be most worried about translations. and better voice acting! BATMAN NOCTIS
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@King BImpy Hail Me Sir you gain my respects with that post of yours. I´d like to see you more often in the forum.
