People just think 2010, but Square Enix had major issues in the years prior

[Sora96]

People will always point fingers at the diverse Final Fantasy XIII and the mess called Final Fantasy XIV 1.0, and rightly so they were two of the biggest titles in Square Enix history. But it would be wrong to just point fingers at these games.

Example #1: SaGa

Akitoshi Kawazu put out two PSOne titles that were poorly received and two PS2 games that bombed for the franchise he created. It's no wonder there hasn't been a proper new SaGa game in a decade.

Example #2: Crystal Chronicles

But after Romancing SaGa's PS2 remake he continued Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and while the first couple of titles were well received the sub-franchise ended on a shocking note with the two full Wii games bombing. While the first was only a port of the second DS game the second was a full fledged Wii title that was long in development and came out to shocking reviews and sales. Since then Akitoshi Kawazu has not released a game outside of Japan and unless SaGa is somehow released outside of Japan I can't see that changing.

Example #3: Front Mission

A franchise that sadly died. The 4th entry never made it in Europe/Australia, the 5th entry was exclusive to Japan and an MMO was shut down only a few years later. They also unsuccessfully rebooted the series into a third-person shooter in 2010, which really sucks since I really liked Evolved. Toshiro Tsuchida soon after left the company.

Example #4: Mana

Back when Yochi Wada wanted a sub-series of everything he got Koichi Ishii to create 'The World of Mana'. The World of Mana resulted in two poorly received DS games and a poorly received PS2 game in the middle that never made its way to Europe/Australia. Koichi Ishii soon after left the company and is now producing Zelda remakes. The Mana series has since been rebooted by Square Enix's 2nd Mobile Division and is set to return to handhelds for the series 25th anniversary.

Bonus mentions: Dirge of Cerberus, Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories & Re:coded.

 

[LeonBlade]

I'm not sure if this belongs in Final Fantasy discussion outside of Final Fantasy loosely being related. However, I don't think anyone is denying the fact that there were other aspects to Square's situation years ago.

I don't even know what SaGa is... Crystal Chronicles has always been a subpar spin off, I don't know what Front Mission is, Mana series has been inactive for a long time

So, what does that leave us with? TWO MAINLINE FINAL FANTASY TITLES, THEIR BIGGEST SERIES OF ALL TIME. I mean, I get that there were other games and things that didn't do well... but you're being facetious if you think that those other games had nearly the impact that XIII and XIV did on the company.

If the failures of XIII and XIV weren't a thing, we wouldn't even be talking about the mistakes of those other games, let's just put it that way...

 

[Sora96]

I'm not sure if this belongs in Final Fantasy discussion outside of Final Fantasy loosely being related. However, I don't think anyone is denying the fact that there were other aspects to Square's situation years ago.

I don't even know what SaGa is... Crystal Chronicles has always been a subpar spin off, I don't know what Front Mission is, Mana series has been inactive for a long time

So, what does that leave us with? TWO MAINLINE FINAL FANTASY TITLES, THEIR BIGGEST SERIES OF ALL TIME. I mean, I get that there were other games and things that didn't do well... but you're being facetious if you think that those other games had nearly the impact that XIII and XIV did on the company.

If the failures of XIII and XIV weren't a thing, we wouldn't even be talking about the mistakes of those other games, let's just put it that way...

You can't be serious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaGa_(series)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Mission

Crystal Chronicles did well to start with though, and then it fell off a cliff with a full budget Wii game.

Mana was inactive because it bombed. I made that clear.

 

[Death Penalty]

I don't understand. Are you trying to defend XIII here by pointing out the shortcomings of much smaller projects that came out years prior? It's really two completely different scales, and I feel LeonBlade said it best in that we wouldn't even be discussing this if XIII and XIV had been acclaimed successes. Every company has struggles. If I were you, I'd have cited the ridiculous issues that surrounded XII's development before the rest here.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

It's pretty obvious Sora has a hidden agenda here.

The games listed probably performed the way they did because the market they targeted was never a healthy one.

Games that were once popular, made a profit and were common are now fading away or have already done so. That's just the way it is. It's not what people want and care for anymore so they either stop being made or they take a nice long break. Also, what were once money makers are now financial risks.

I also don't just think 2010 by the way... In fact, I don't really think any year. I'm pretty sure people don't just point fingers at Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV either.

I mean, why else would people be going around and saying things like, "Square Enix started going downhill after Final Fantasy(insert number here) was made"?

That doesn't just mean Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV but every Final Fantasy game before them. Pretty sure I've heard people use Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XII before and that definitely has nothing to do with the year 2010.

 

[yeah_93]

It's pretty obvious Sora has a hidden agenda here.

It's not really hidden... it's blatantly being pushed, but it's a bit unclear what exactly is it.

That doesn't just mean Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV but every Final Fantasy game before them. Pretty sure I've heard people use
Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XII before and that definitely has nothing to do with the year 2010.

Hell I've seen the number VI (a.k.a. after the SNES) being thrown around.

 

[Mistwalker]

If the failures of XIII and XIV weren't a thing, we wouldn't even be talking about the mistakes of those other games, let's just put it that way...

That last part said it all. You can't compare the impact of a Final Fantasy game the other franchises you mentioned here.

 

[Sora96]

It's pretty obvious Sora has a hidden agenda here.

The games listed probably performed the way they did because the market they targeted was never a healthy one.

Games that were once popular, made a profit and were common are now fading away or have already done so. That's just the way it is. It's not what people want and care for anymore so they either stop being made or they take a nice long break. Also, what were once money makers are now financial risks.

I also don't just think 2010 by the way... In fact, I don't really think any year. I'm pretty sure people don't just point fingers at Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV either.

I mean, why else would people be going around and saying things like, "Square Enix started going downhill after Final Fantasy(insert number here) was made"?

That doesn't just mean Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV but every Final Fantasy game before them. Pretty sure I've heard people use Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XII before and that definitely has nothing to do with the year 2010.

It's not really hidden... it's blatantly being pushed, but it's a bit unclear what exactly is it.
Hell I've seen the number VI (a.k.a. after the SNES) being thrown around.

That last part said it all. You can't compare the impact of a Final Fantasy game the other franchises you mentioned here.

Akitoshi Kawazu, Toshiro Tsuchida, Koichi Ishii.

Three people who had large impacts on the FF series. Two left after their titles bombed and the other hasn't released a game internationally since.

 

[LeonBlade]

Akitoshi Kawazu, Toshiro Tsuchida, Koichi Ishii.

Three people I don't know at all, because I, like most people, don't pay attention to those details.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

Akitoshi Kawazu, Toshiro Tsuchida, Koichi Ishii.

Three people who had large impacts on the FF series. Two left after their titles bombed and the other hasn't released a game internationally since.

You're only saying this because you want Toriyama haters to understand that he's a perfect game designer who hasn't made a bad game yet.

 

[Death Penalty]

Akitoshi Kawazu, Toshiro Tsuchida, Koichi Ishii.

Three people who had large impacts on the FF series. Two left after their titles bombed and the other hasn't released a game internationally since.

So the lesson here is that Toriyama can't take a hint, unlike his predecessors?