Tabata: "FFXV used ATB, but I dropped it. Another director will evolve ATB for the next FF."

[LeonBlade]

I think people like you believe that RPGs are primarily about story due to being exposed to the Final Fantasy series. Yes, the FF series is mainly about story over gameplay, but the origin of the RPG genre was based on gameplay and using it to make the player feel like they're controlling a character in rich, fictional world.

Yuji Horii, who created the JRPG genre with the Dragon Quest series, defined the RPG as follows:

"The most important part of a Role-Playing Game is the player feeling like they are taking the role of a character in a fully realised fantasy world. They can explore, visit various towns and dungeons, talk to NPCs, customise their character's equipment and abilities, collect various items and loot, and defeat many different monsters. The story is not the priority of the experience and is only there to make the atmosphere of the fantasy world more interesting and engaging over the course of the game."

As you can see, even he believes that gameplay is more important than story in RPGs.

I think it's just people have different opinions. I think story and gameplay both matter. The story keeps you playing and so doesn't the gameplay.

I agree with what Horii has to say, the exploration and interaction and all the stuff you do in the game especially when not engaging with the actual story far outweighs the time spent learning more about the plot. Most of my fondest moments in classic RPG games like Dragon Quest VIII for example was exploring the beautiful world map and having fun with the gameplay itself.

The way I see it, if the gameplay sucks and the story is good, you might as well just watch the cutscenes and skip the gameplay.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

The way I see it, if the gameplay sucks and the story is good, you might as well just watch the cutscenes and skip the gameplay.

Exactly.

Also, a growing problem for games that make their main selling points be the story and cutscenes is YouTube. There is a growing number of gamers who now watch playthroughs without commentary of story-driven games on YouTube. I know many people that watched the cutscenes of LR FFXIII on YouTube without even buying it. They didn't want to drop $60 on the game, so the just watched the cutscene online instead, as they mainly play JRPGs for the story. In contrast, very rarely will you see somebody not buy the latest Monster Hunter or Smash Bros. game in favor of just watching a playthrough on YouTube. That's because the main selling points of those games in the actual gameplay, not the story and cutscenes.

Basically, Yuji Horii is correct. An RPG needs to remember it's gameplay foremost and use that gameplay to immerse the player in the world and tell whatever story it wants to tell. If a JRPG cares more about story and mainly tells said story through cutscenes, people won't even need to buy the game. In this day and age, they can can just watch all the cutscenes on YouTube for free.

 

[Myrodis19]

Exactly.

Also, a growing problem for games that make their main selling points be the story and cutscenes is YouTube. There is a growing number of gamers who now watch playthroughs without commentary of story-driven games on YouTube. I know many people that watched the cutscenes of LR FFXIII on YouTube without even buying it. They didn't want to drop $60 on the game, so the just watched the cutscene online instead, as they mainly play JRPGs for the story. In contrast, very rarely will you see somebody not buy the latest Monster Hunter or Smash Bros. game in favor of just watching a playthrough on YouTube. That's because the main selling points of those games in the actual gameplay, not the story and cutscenes.

Basically, Yuji Horii is correct. An RPG needs to remember it's gameplay foremost and use that gameplay to immerse the player in the world and tell whatever story it wants to tell. If a JRPG cares more about story and mainly tells said story through cutscenes, people won't even need to buy the game. In this day and age, they can can just watch all the cutscenes on YouTube for free.

Isnt that what a JRPG is mainly for. Its story? Story is the main reason i love JRPGS. If i wanted an RPG for just gameplay id go with Fallout or something like that.

 

[Crystal Power]

Anyone who thinks JRPG's are for it story has it all wrong. I actually don't think it makes sense. You PLAY a game to LISTEN to it's story only??? Might as well play visual novels instead or just watch a movie, or read a book. I mean yea the story is included to make a good game but if JRPG's are RPG's because it's story than just about any game can be one then, Tekken is a JRPG's now, Sonic Adventure is JRPG. that Powepuff Girls game had a good story, I guess that can be a JRPG too.

Why stop there? Let's add movies. Precious is a JRPG, Spirted Away is a JRPG, Frozen might as well be JRPG as well now too...

 

[Myrodis19]

Anyone who thinks JRPG's are for it story has it all wrong. I actually don't think it makes sense. You PLAY as game to LISTEN to it's story only??? Might as well play visual novels instead or just watch a movie, or read a book. I mean yea the story is included to make a good game but if JRPG's are RPG's because it's story than just about any game can be one then, Tekken is a JRPG's now, Sonic Adventure is JRPG. that Powepuff Girls game had a good story, I guess that can be a JRPG too.

Why stop there? Let's add movies. Precious is a JRPG, Spirted Away is a JRPG, Frozen might as well be JRPG as well now too...

Just because we say we think JRPGS are there for their stories does not mean we don't want game-play lol. It means we/i think i mainly play them for their story/world/characters. If that makes sense?

I mean a JRPG and a WRPG are two different things really, a WRPG for the most part seems to prioritize game-play while a JRPG prioritizes Story.

 

[Crystal Power]

Just because we say we think JRPGS are there for their stories does not mean we don't want game-play lol. It means we/i think i mainly play them for their story/world/characters. If that makes sense?

I mean a JRPG and a WRPG are two different things really, a WRPG for the most part seems to prioritize game-play while a JRPG prioritizes Story.

I'm kinda confused, do you play JRPG's because their stories tend to be good, or are you saying JRPG's are only for their stories. Your statement that if you wanted gameplay you'd play fallout, kinda imply it was the latter?

But if it was the former, then I could wholeheartedly agree. JRPG's do have good stories, and I also get excited for one because of the characters and the world. Especially the characters. But I wouldn't say that's all that makes an a JRPG what it is, because tons of genres can have good stories, likable characters, and interesting worlds.

 

[Myrodis19]

I'm kinda confused, do you play JRPG's because their stories tend to be good, or are you saying JRPG's are only for their stories. Your statement that if you wanted gameplay you'd play fallout, kinda imply it was the latter?

But if it was the former, then I could wholeheartedly agree. JRPG's do have good stories, and I also get excited for one because of the characters and the world. Especially the characters. But I wouldn't say that's all that makes an a JRPG what it is, because tons of genres can have good stories, likable characters, and interesting worlds.

Oh i play them because i have good stories. The fallout remark was for 1truth who said he primarily plays them for the gameplay, JRPGS that is.

 

[Crystal Power]

Oh i play them because i have good stories. The fallout remark was for 1truth who said he primarily plays them for the gameplay, JRPGS that is.

Oh I see, but wouldn't you agree the gameplay also play a huge factor in JRPG's as well? I think the stories and core gameplay go hand and hand. I mean would FF still be considered a JRPG if it was a platformer like Mario. ^^;;

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

Wow. That was hyperbolic. Some fans may do that, but I know more than a few who wouldn't.

If you want to get technical and picky about it and apply the lessons taught in a critical thinking class, then sure. “Some” people not “all” people obviously.

However, it’s pretty evident that the mainline Final Fantasy games sell well because of their amazing production values. That's its real identity. It's the one thing they all have in common and what keeps people coming back for more.

If you yank that out, you’d have yourself a niche JRPG that targets a small group of people, which would most likely consist of your diehard fans.

Do people buy Final Fantasy games because of things like story? Sure. Is that the reason why the mainline entries sell over 5 million? I don’t think so. Final Fantasy is no different then any other big budget AAA title in that its amazing production values are what makes it so appealing and why people continue to invest in it.

Final Fantasy is basically the equivalent of a summer blockbuster film. It's about visuals over good storytelling. Style over substance. They're not about heart and soul like independent films are.

All those little things people whine and bitch about when it comes to what makes a Final Fantasy game ultimately does not matter. It may turn some of the diehards off and make them shout things like, “This is not Final Fantasy!” but as long as the games look damn pretty, it’ll still continue to sell very well because that’s the kind of software people want on a XBox and PlayStation platform.

Not much different then people being upset at Hollywood for butchering their favorite childhood TV shows by introducing elements that will appeal to the masses, instead of long time loyal fans, in favor of all the money they can rake in.

 

[KOKAYI5]

If you want to get technical and picky about it and apply the lessons taught in a critical thinking class, then sure. “Some” people not “all” people obviously.

However, it’s pretty evident that the mainline Final Fantasy games sell well because of their amazing production values. That's its real identity. It's the one thing they all have in common and what keeps people coming back for more.

If you yank that out, you’d have yourself a niche JRPG that targets a small group of people, which would most likely consist of your diehard fans.

Do people buy Final Fantasy games because of things like story? Sure. Is that the reason why the mainline entries sell over 5 million? I don’t think so. Final Fantasy is no different then any other big budget AAA title in that its amazing production values are what makes it so appealing and why people continue to invest in it.

Final Fantasy is basically the equivalent of a summer blockbuster film. It's about visuals over good storytelling. Style over substance. They're not about heart and soul like independent films are.

All those little things people whine and bitch about when it comes to what makes a Final Fantasy game ultimately does not matter. It may turn some of the diehards off and make them shout things like, “This is not Final Fantasy!” but as long as the games look damn pretty, it’ll still continue to sell very well because that’s the kind of software people want on a XBox and PlayStation platform.

Not much different then people being upset at Hollywood for butchering their favorite childhood TV shows by introducing elements that will appeal to the masses, instead of long time loyal fans, in favor of all the money they can rake in.

If thats how you see it fine. I just don't see it that way I've seen ffs with serious heart to them. Same goes for summer blockbusters. Ive played some ffs 3 or 4 times the story sticks with me. And not just the cutscenes the quotes too. I can quote some key parts to games I played that touched me or were the most exciting.

Also I dont believe story matter only in an rpg. I just think it matter more than gameplay. But the game play has to be great too. Otherwise battles and exploring and minigames would be boring. I know some of yall have played so many games that nothing surprises yall and it may get frustrating or drive you to being cynical. But there still some good games out there. Square has them but others too. Dont just give up and write off games these days as flash and no substance. Because I seriously believe some devs are still putting their all into making games that make money but also tell a genuine story.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Isnt that what a JRPG is mainly for. Its story? Story is the main reason i love JRPGS. If i wanted an RPG for just gameplay id go with Fallout or something like that.

No, JRPGs are not mainly about story. The roots of the genre is gameplay and there are still many popular and big-selling JRPGs that put gameplay first (Dragon Quest, Pokemon). The sub-genre of JRPGs that mainly focus on story was started by Final Fantasy and JRPGs that decided to follow in its footsteps.

Story may be the main reason you love JRPGs, but that doesn't change the fact that the origin of JRPGs is in gameplay. Please read my quote by Yuji Horri, as he does a pretty good job explaining how a JRPG should prioritise gameplay over story. That blueprint he mentions is followed by both Dragon Quest and Pokemon, and both franchises have become hugely successful as a result. They even sell way more copies in Japan than mainline Final Fantasy games.

Anyone who thinks JRPG's are for it story has it all wrong. I actually don't think it makes sense. You PLAY as game to LISTEN to it's story only??? Might as well play visual novels instead or just watch a movie, or read a book. I mean yea the story is included to make a good game but if JRPG's are RPG's because it's story than just about any game can be one then, Tekken is a JRPG's now, Sonic Adventure is JRPG. that Powepuff Girls game had a good story, I guess that can be a JRPG too.

Why stop there? Let's add movies. Precious is a JRPG, Spirted Away is a JRPG, Frozen might as well be JRPG as well now too...

Well said.

Glad to see somebody else that understands the flawed logic of people who claim they mainly play JRPGs for the story.

Let me break it down even further, so people can better understand where I'm coming from:

• Are you really reading a book for the story? No. What you're actually doing is reading a book for the text and how said text has used its punctuation, grammar, sentence structure, and narrative flow all to tell its story. Those aspects all take priority over the story itself, as without them there would be no story.
• Are you really watching a film for the story? No. What you're actually doing is watching a film for the motion photography and how said motion photography has used its camera work, cinematography, actors, screenplay, and special effects all to tell its story. Those aspects all take priority over the story itself, as without them there would be no story.

I'm not lambasting people for playing JRPGs for the story, as people have to freedom to play video games for whatever reason they want, but to say the most important aspect of JRPGs is the story is not accurate. The gameplay takes higher priority, as if you take that away, you'll just be left with hours of cutscenes that can easily be mistaken for an CGI movie with no need for player interaction.

 

[BladeRunner]

Gameplay or story?

Here.
Problem solved. No need to argue anymore

EDIT: I mean seriously this discussion is dumb. Different people play games for different reasons and have different expectations. Deal with it.

Oh and this:

What you're actually doing is a reading a book for the text

Pure genius.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Gameplay or story?

Here.
Problem solved. No need to argue anymore

EDIT: I mean seriously this discussion is dumb. Different people play games for different reasons and have different expectations. Deal with it.

Why do you always try and enter a debate just to end it when you haven't even participated in it? Get fuck out of here!

Also, nobody is saying they want only gameplay or only story. That's utter stupidity. The debate is about what should be seen as the more important part of a RPG. On the surface, it may appear that story is more important due to the depth of the stories in games in the genre, but that's really not the case. Besides, one could argue that the depth of the gameplay in RPGs is even greater than the depth of their stories.

As for you bringing up people playing RPGs for different reasons, you're again late to party. I've already covered that in my previous post. There's nothing wrong anybody personally playing a RPG for the story, but it is wrong to claim the most important part of a RPG is the story. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with saying you watch films or read books for the story, but it is wrong to say the most important part of those mediums is the story.

 

[Myrodis19]

Why do you always try and enter a debate just to end it when you haven't even participated in it? Get fuck out of here!

Also, nobody is saying they want only gameplay or only story. That's utter stupidity. The debate is about what should be seen as the more important part of a RPG. On the surface, it may appear that story is more important due to the depth of the stories in games in the genre, but that's really not the case. Besides, one could argue that the depth of the gameplay in RPGs is even greater than the depth of their stories.

As for you bringing up people playing RPGs for different reasons, you're again late to party. I've already covered that in my previous post. There's nothing wrong anybody personally playing a RPG for the story, but it is wrong to claim the most important part of a RPG is the story. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with saying you watch films or read books for the story, but it is wrong to say the most important part of those mediums is the story.

Actually it is not wrong to claim they play it just for the story or just for the gameplay. It is all a matter of opinion. I personally think the most important thing of a JRPG is indeed the story, while you do not.

I am not saying gameplay is not important. It most certainly is, but it is not the reason i play a JRPG. Now as for your examples. I honestly think the reason Pokemon does so well is because of the anime/cartoon. I remember getting the games back in the day because ash was cool and i wnated to be him, heck this was before i even knew what anime was. As for Dragon Quest, those games have a good story.

I end this not being rude to you but saying everything is based on an opinion. So dont state things you say as if they were fact. Also, @BladeRunner was just trying to defuse a potentially bad argument. No need to be mean.