Tabata: "FFXV used ATB, but I dropped it. Another director will evolve ATB for the next FF."

[KOKAYI5]

@1Truth2Lies I respect your gusto to dig up info and look for the deeper meaning behind their words, but maybe it's time to stop viewing the game industry this way. It's not a mystery that needs to be crack. Don't drive yourself crazy looking for answers of when a game made by a loved director will come out. What if, and I'm not saying it won't, but what if it doesn't? What if 16 is not even a glimmer in Square's eye yet? I think it's better to focus on things that are confirmed than then the may or may not be. I hope for great JRPGs all the time especially in the wake of games like Compile Hearts' soft-core hentai moe games. But I learned that sometimes you can wait for years for something and it won't go away and the thing you want won't always replace it. And when that happens it's not a conspiracy. Is 16 being developed behind the scenes? I don't know, I flat out don't know. It's possible. But why fixate on it? That game, even if it was near done, is not gonna come out till Type-0, FFXV, and maybe KH3 hits the shelves first. I just don't want to see people slowly becoming obsessed over games. Even great ones aren't worth it. We'd all just become slaves to the industry if we obsess. I once knew a gamer girl who'd buy anything she loved even when she was broke. It was like an addiction. No job, no allowance, yet trying to beg for money just to buy games. Sad.

As long as those two things stay high quality, fans will continue to gobble it up no matter how shitty, or how “un-Final Fantasy" like everything else is.

Wow. That was hyperbolic. Some fans may do that, but I know more than a few who wouldn't.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

The most important thing to me about Final Fantasy is the story, Final Fantasy is the giant when it comes to JRPGs, and it's all because of the story. There are ton of other RPGs that have similar turn based battle systems, but none as popular as Final Fantasy simply because of the legacy.

I definitely agree that things like combat system and setting are not as important, as long as it's a JRPG named Final Fantasy with familiar elements such as recurring themes, enemies, creatures, concepts it will be a Final Fantasy game.

For me the most important thing about Final Fantasy is the gameplay. I don't play any video games for their stories, not even JRPGs. I remain primarily about the gameplay experience. The story is just something to keep me interested in the gameplay until I reach the end of the game.

Also, I'm not gonna fall victim to @yeah_93 provocations and turn this thread into battlefield. He's one of my GameFAQs haters and I've learned to just ignore them as arguing with them is pointless.

No sense on getting excited about XVI yet when we have XV at the moment.

Well, when you have little to no interest in FFXV because what you've seen doesn't appeal to you, you have no choice but to get excited by a FFXVI that will potentially appeal to you. Either that, or just give up on the FF series completely until FFXVI is announced.

 

[Myrodis19]

For me the most important thing about Final Fantasy is the gameplay. I don't play any video games for their stories, not even JRPGs. I remain primarily about the gameplay experience. The story is just something to keep me interested in the gameplay until I reach the end of the game.

Also, I'm not gonna fall victim to @yeah_93 provocations and turn this thread into battlefield. He's one of my GameFAQs haters and I've learned to just ignore them as arguing with them is pointless.


Well, when you have little to no interest in FFXV because what you've seen doesn't appeal to you, you have no choice but to get excited by a FFXVI that will potentially appeal to you. Either that, or just give up on the FF series completely until FFXVI is announced.

Or just enjoy the game for what it is. You can't say you dont think youll like the game when you haven't even played it yet lol. Reserve your judgement at least until you play the demo.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Or just enjoy the game for what it is. You can't say you dont think youll like the game when you haven't even played it yet lol. Reserve your judgement at least until you play the demo.

You asked me why I want FFXVI so much and want Hiroyuki Ito directing it. I explained this to you in this post, so why are you now asking me to look forward to FFXV regardless? What I've seen of FFXV doesn't interest me, which I've already told you. If I see a game I don't like visually and descriptively, I won't drop money or time on it. I'm sure people will enjoy FFXV, but I won't be one of them. Instead, I'm waiting for another mainline FF that builds off FFXII. The only way to possibly get that is with Hiroyuki Ito at the helm, and even then it's not assured.

This doesn't sound a true FF fan, you say? Correct. You can blame Monster Hunter for dethroning FF as a series I buy every mainline instalment of. My stance with FF now is that I only buy the games that interest me. I don't buy the games just because they're called Final Fantasy and have a Roman numeral. Those days ended with FFXIII.

 

[yeah_93]

Also, I'm not gonna fall victim to @yeah_93 provocations and turn this thread into battlefield. He's one of my GameFAQs haters and I've learned to just ignore them as arguing with them is pointless.

Come on, don't try to pretend. I'm dropping it now, but you aren't going to make me look like a fool.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Come on, don't try to pretend. I'm dropping it now, but you aren't going to make me look like a fool.

Pretend what? LOL! I don't need to try and make you look foolish as you're doing a great job all by yourself. It's best that you're dropping it because taking this BS any further would just make me make you look even more of a stupid hater than you already are.

 

[yeah_93]

Pretend what? LOL! I don't need to try and make you look foolish as you're doing a great job all by yourself. It's best that you're dropping it because taking this BS any further would just make me make you look even more of a stupid hater than you already are.

Don't go that far. I haven't insulted you.

 

[All Hail King Bimpy]

For me the most important thing about Final Fantasy is the gameplay. I don't play any video games for their stories, not even JRPGs. I remain primarily about the gameplay experience. The story is just something to keep me interested in the gameplay until I reach the end of the game.

but a FF with a bad story is gonna be a bad FF overall because they are foremost about their narratives. the only way a bad storied FF can be enjoyable is if the gameplay is more fun than the plot at hand. i guess your one of those ppl who skip over cutscenes and play lots of shooters fighting games and beat em ups cuz you dont need much story for them. stories in games are as deep as in novels. i never met anyone who puts down games that rely on their fictional elements more than some meh gameplay and FF is a franchise ineeding of revolutionary gameplay for the JRPG genre. i played so many jrpgs on 7th gen systems they didnt offer much to the gameplay department i havent done before in higher quality. only a few stand out.

i dont see whats so horrible about FF15's gameplay when its updating FF into modern day gaming. yes i would say ff is outdatted in many aspects

 

[1Truth2Lies]

but a FF with a bad story is gonna be a bad FF overall because they are foremost about their narratives. the only way a bad storied FF can be enjoyable is if the gameplay is more fun than the plot at hand. i guess your one of those ppl who skip over cutscenes and play lots of shooters fighting games and beat em ups cuz you dont need much story for them. stories in games are as deep as in novels. i never met anyone who puts down games that rely on their fictional elements more than some meh gameplay and FF is a franchise ineeding of revolutionary gameplay for the JRPG genre. i played so many jrpgs on 7th gen systems they didnt offer much to the gameplay department i havent done before in higher quality. only a few stand out.

i dont see whats so horrible about FF15's gameplay when its updating FF into modern day gaming. yes i would say ff is outdatted in many aspects

I never play video games for their narratives. I play for their gameplay. I play FF games for their gameplay, too. I like the battle system mechanics and visuals in many past FF games, and the stories were nice and kept me interested in their world's, but I never play FF, or any video game genre, with my main drive being to experience the story. For me, video games are about gameplay first and foremost. The story is icing on the gameplay cake. If the gameplay is good, I can put up with a bad story. If the gameplay is awful, I'm dropping the game no matter how good the story is.

I've actually never skipped a single cutscene in my history of playing video games. However, if I notice that a game cares more about showing me cutscenes than actually letting me play, I'll likely drop the game and move on to another one. I barely play FPS game, but my favorite one is Metroid Prime. I do play many fighting games, though. They are actually my favorite video game genre after Action Adventure games!

Also, I disagree with you on video game stories being as deep as novels, but that's just me. When I want a great story, I'll read a critically acclaimed novel, but I've never, not once, played a video game for the story. Only video game I think that has a story that sits on par with some of the greatest novels in history is FFXII, but I'll need to release my theory to explain that point.

As for your claim that the FF franchise needs revolutionary gameplay, they already achieved that in FFXII back in 2006. If you didn't already know, I actually want FFXVI to build off what FFXII accomplished. The success of Xenoblade is the proof that FFXII was taking JRPGs in the right direction.

FFXV doesn't look as groundbreaking as FFXII. Matter of fact, FFXV looks like a game that's trying to play catch up with Open World Western games from last-gen. Tabata already compared the Open World in FFXV to Red Dead Redemption. Heck, even Xenoblade gave us an Open World on the weak Wii hardware. Basically, FFXV isn't a giant leap forward for gaming. FFXVI needs to be that giant leap and become a game that goes beyond what other games will be offering on PS4/XB1, not games on PS3/360/Wii. It needs to set the new benchmark for gameplay in RPGs, just like FFXII did before it. IMO, it will only achieve this feat if Hiroyuki Ito is both directing and game designing. I honestly don't give a fuck who pens the scenario.

 

[All Hail King Bimpy]

I never play video games for their narratives. I play for their gameplay. I play FF games for their gameplay, too. I like the battle system mechanics and visuals in many past FF games, and the stories were nice and kept me interested in their world's, but I never play FF, or any video game genre, with my main drive being to experience the story. For me, video games are about gameplay first and foremost. The story is icing on the gameplay cake. If the gameplay is good, I can put up with a bad story. If the gameplay is awful, I'm dropping the game no matter how good the story is.

I've actually never skipped a single cutscene in my history of playing video games. However, if I notice that a game cares more about showing me cutscenes than actually letting me play, I'll likely drop the game and move on to another one. I barely play FPS game, but my favorite one is Metroid Prime. I do play many fighting games, though. They are actually my favorite video game genre after Action Adventure games!

Also, I disagree with you on video game stories being as deep as novels, but that's just me. When I want a great story, I'll read a critically acclaimed novel, but I've never, not once, played a video game for the story. Only video game I think that has a story that sits on par with some of the greatest novels in history is FFXII, but I'll need to release my theory to explain that point.

As for your claim that the FF franchise needs revolutionary gameplay, they already achieved that in FFXII back in 2006. If you didn't already know, I actually want FFXVI to build off what FFXII accomplished. The success of Xenoblade is the proof that FFXII was taking JRPGs in the right direction.

FFXV doesn't look as groundbreaking as FFXII. Matter of fact, FFXV looks like a game that's trying to play catch up with Open World Western games from last-gen. Tabata already compared the Open World in FFXV to Red Dead Redemption. Heck, even Xenoblade gave us an Open World on the weak Wii hardware. Basically, FFXV isn't a giant leap forward for gaming. FFXVI needs to be that giant leap and become a game that goes beyond what other games will be offering on PS4/XB1, not games on PS3/360/Wii. It needs to set the new benchmark for gameplay in RPGs, just like FFXII did before it. IMO, it will only achieve this feat if Hiroyuki Ito is both directing and game designing. I honestly don't give a fuck who pens the scenario.

Yeah it's clear you play games just for gaemplay, reason you loved XB so much despite its mediocre gameplay and very below mediocre story that's more toned down in the development department than your most basic shonen, such as Fairy Tail. However, it also seems you have a preference for MMO styled combat and missions, which when embraced in games like Xenoblade end up being nothing more than needless 400+ go fetch doggy, even if none combat content immersed in the world-building is watered down. As long as it has that MMO vibe via gameplay you don't care. FF12 is far better than XB in terms of everything (can argue that later) but what makes both equally great to you is that MMO nostalgia. I am not in your head but based on your responses to people it's obvious to see the type of FF you want. The more you brag about games like XB and FF12 the more you come off as someone who wants the future of JRPGs to have that MMO vibe because for some unexplained reason it's just so fun compared to anything FF15 offers.

It is also easy to see you have a very poor understanding of FF15, degrading what the developers are doing by saying each idea they bring forth is A, not initiative, or B, not enjoyable without any evidence for support. according to you on the other page having a car and using Need for Speed as inspiration is bad, while having no confirmed usable air ship is even worst, therefore FF16 will correct this. "Basically, FFXV isn't a giant leap forward for gaming". FF15 is a huge leap forward for the JRPG genre and yes the RPG genre in general. Don't make me list all the things this game is achieving and why they are important in the context of XV's themes.

Please explain what FF12 did that revolutionized the FF franchise and why everything Nomura has done and Taba is now doing is nothing new for the FF franchise and the JRPG genre? tell me why FF15 is hurting the FF franchisee and JRPG genre more than FF12. tell me why XB X is now the epicenter of how to make JRPGs and what FF15 should be more like. you have this silly bias that's becoming annoying to read here, arguing FF16 superiority without its existence

 

[yeah_93]

Yeah it's clear you play games just for gaemplay, reason you loved XB so much despite its mediocre gameplay and very below mediocre story that's more toned down in the development department than your most basic shonen, such as Fairy Tail. However, it also seems you have a preference for MMO styled combat and missions, which when embraced in games like Xenoblade end up being nothing more than needless 400+ go fetch doggy, even if none combat content immersed in the world-building is watered down. As long as it has that MMO vibe via gameplay you don't care. FF12 is far better than XB in terms of everything (can argue that later) but what makes both equally great to you is that MMO nostalgia.

Jesus, you didn't have to trash Xenoblade to make your argument.

 

[All Hail King Bimpy]

Jesus, you didn't have to trash Xenoblade to make your argument.

He's the one who used XB as a prefect example of what FF15 is doing wrong... i brought it up to prove my point. he just plays for gameplay even if the game, such as XB, offers very little creativity and enjoyment in that department. XB much like TOX was meh gameplay wise.
In contrast, what made one stand out from the other was its fiction. if you put down a game's story, characters, lore, central theme, and aesopsthen you end up in shoes, a sucker for anything ranging from below decent gameplay to orgasmic quality.

note: I am not scared to talk about a game's under-discussed flaws. Bandwagon effect does not phase me. im just talking blunt right now.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Yeah it's clear you play games just for gaemplay, reason you loved XB so much despite its mediocre gameplay and very below mediocre story that's more toned down in the development department than your most basic shonen, such as Fairy Tail. However, it also seems you have a preference for MMO styled combat and missions, which when embraced in games like Xenoblade end up being nothing more than needless 400+ go fetch doggy, even if none combat content immersed in the world-building is watered down. As long as it has that MMO vibe via gameplay you don't care. FF12 is far better than XB in terms of everything (can argue that later) but what makes both equally great to you is that MMO nostalgia. I am not in your head but based on your responses to people it's obvious to see the type of FF you want. The more you brag about games like XB and FF12 the more you come off as someone who wants the future of JRPGs to have that MMO vibe because for some unexplained reason it's just so fun compared to anything FF15 offers.

It is also easy to see you have a very poor understanding of FF15, degrading what the developers are doing by saying each idea they bring forth is A, not initiative, or B, not enjoyable without any evidence for support. according to you on the other page having a car and using Need for Speed as inspiration is bad, while having no confirmed usable air ship is even worst, therefore FF16 will correct this. "Basically, FFXV isn't a giant leap forward for gaming". FF15 is a huge leap forward for the JRPG genre and yes the RPG genre in general. Don't make me list all the things this game is achieving and why they are important in the context of XV's themes.

Please explain what FF12 did that revolutionized the FF franchise and why everything Nomura has done and Taba is now doing is nothing new for the FF franchise and the JRPG genre? tell me why FF15 is hurting the FF franchisee and JRPG genre more than FF12. tell me why XB X is now the epicenter of how to make JRPGs and what FF15 should be more like. you have this silly bias that's becoming annoying to read here, arguing FF16 superiority without its existence

OK, you're evidently making shit up here. Go back and read my posts. Never once did I say I personally enjoyed Xenoblade or put it on a pedestal. I was referring to the critical acclaim it has got and how it was the highest rated console RPG last-gen, beating out JRPGs even on HD platforms. You may be surprised, but I actually believe Xenoblade to be a cheap imitation of FFXII. Sure, I enjoyed the world scale and battle system, and applaud if for picking up where FFXII left off, but mechanically and systemically it's not on the same level as FFXII's gameplay, especially the FFXII IZJS version.

That being said, Xenoblade does not have mediocre gameplay. Don't know where you're coming from with that claim. The seamless battles and massive Open World are both great fun and the amount of content is staggering. As for the story, I don't play games for the story, so don't care if it was good or not. To be honest, I don't even really remember the story, as I spent far to much time actually exploring and doing side-quests between key cutscenes. With regards to me liking MMO gameplay, I don't agree, as I played FFXII before I'd have ever played any MMO. The impression I got from FFXII when I first played it was that it played more like a turn-based 3D Zelda, but with a much larger and diverse world. I got that same vibe from Xenoblade, too. I've played FFXIV ARR now, so know what MMO gameplay is like, but I can't say it's like FFXII or Xenoblade. I don't like seeing other players running around my screen doing stupid things, and I don't like how you have to rely on teaming up with these other players for tough battles and not have your own party that you can fully control yourself. For me, these two key things are what make FFXII and Xenoblade feel very different to an MMO.

Go ahead and believe FFXV, an 8 year old game that was originally being developed for the PS3, will now be the giant leap forward for JRPGs and gaming in general. LOL! Some of you FF fans are delusional. Had this game been conceived for PS4/XB1, I'd see where you're coming from, but Tabata has already said all the core gameplay mechanics are the same as when it was VersusXIII for PS3. Therefore, how can a former last-gen game, but now with current-gen graphics, show the future direction of the games industry? LOL! That makes no sense.

The game that will show the future direction of JRPGs and will be the giant leap forward for them in gaming is FFXVI. It will be conceived and built from the ground-up for PS4/XB1 hardware. It won't be a remake of a PS3 game in a shiny new graphics engine but with content removed (FFXV's playable party members, TPS elements, controllable airship, etc). Also, it will likely use Shinra Technologies, so it will therefore offer graphical detail, world scale, and gameplay mechanics that even the PS4/XB1 can't achieve in real-time. From a gameplay perspective, it will be as forward thinking as FFXII was in 2006, especially if Hiroyuki Ito is directing and designing.

 

[Hannibal_Khan]

I just can't believe an entire console generation was wasted on that Fabulous Nova Crystallis garbage. And yes, XV is still XIII's spin-off. It's still Versus even with the name change. That being said, i'm excited for XV. I don't see it as the savior of the franchise but maybe it can restore some of the faith in SE to make a good AAA title.

Most of my hope for the future of the series lies on XVI tho.
(btw i play FF for the story)

 

[Crystal Power]

I just can't believe an entire console generation was wasted on that Fabulous Nova Crystallis garbage. And yes, XV is still XIII's spin-off. It's still Versus even with the name change. That being said, i'm excited for XV. I don't see it as the savior of the franchise but maybe it can restore some of the faith in SE to make a good AAA title.

Most of my hope for the future of the series lies on XVI tho.
(btw i play FF for the story)

Well, it's sad the whole console generation was XIII only, but I think people are way to harsh to say words like "garbage". The games are actually amazing to me, and I realize not everyone will like them. But garbage??? Come on. LOL!

 

[Hannibal_Khan]

Well, it's sad the whole console generation was XIII only, but I think people are way to harsh to say words like "garbage". The games are actually amazing to me, and I realize not everyone will like them. But garbage??? Come on. LOL!

Lightning, Snow, Hope- 3 of the worst names in FF history(i mean c'mon SE, that just seems lazy). The story stunk and the characters all annoyed me. Lightning's not a bad character, but wasn't a good leading character. For me, i play FF for the story and i found XIII's story and dialogue so bad i couldn't complete it(and i've tried 3 or 4 times). I also didn't really like the paradigm shift or the whole battle system in general, so XIII has no redeeming qualities for me. Just a really bad FF. I actually beat XIII-2, it was meh. Didn't play LR out of protest.

I wouldn't hate it as much as i do but damn....an entire console generation with 1 mythos', 1 mainline title and its sequals... AN ENTIRE DECADE OF THE SAME CHARACTERS!!!!!!!

That just aint the Final Fantasy i fell in love with... an its actually kinda painful to think about.

 

[KOKAYI5]

I loved xenoblades story personally. And as far as gameplay over story... when it comes to RPGs that doesnt compute to me. Rpgs are story first gameplay second. That sets it apart from action and horror games imho.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

I loved xenoblades story personally. And as far as gameplay story... when it comes to RPGs that does compute to me. Rpgs are story first gameplay second. That sets it apart from action and horror games imho.

I think people like you believe that RPGs are primarily about story due to being exposed to the Final Fantasy series. Yes, the FF series is mainly about story over gameplay, but the origin of the RPG genre was based on gameplay and using it to make the player feel like they're controlling a character in rich, fictional world.

Yuji Horii, who created the JRPG genre with the Dragon Quest series, defined the RPG as follows:

"The most important part of a Role-Playing Game is the player feeling like they are taking the role of a character in a fully realised fantasy world. They can explore, visit various towns and dungeons, talk to NPCs, customise their character's equipment and abilities, collect various items and loot, and defeat many different monsters. The story is not the priority of the experience and is only there to make the atmosphere of the fantasy world more interesting and engaging over the course of the game."

As you can see, even he believes that gameplay is more important than story in RPGs.

 

[KOKAYI5]

Regardless, in my opinion, its about story. The gameplay needs to be good too. How he sees it is his business. But we've come a long way from how rpgs started. Ive played rpgs in lots of forms but I never wanted to pretend to be the character. Rather I always saw it as I was reading a book about a hero's life. Their trials. That's why I Can't save most silent leads or creator create characters. I want to know how others live react help people and learn to love. I already know how I do those things. If you want games more for gameplay have at it. But I think the thing that stick with players in an rpg is the story.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Regardless, in my opinion, its about story. The gameplay needs to be good too. How he sees it is his business. But we've come a long way from how rpgs started. Ive played rpgs in lots of forms but I never wanted to pretend to be the character. Rather I always saw it as I was reading a book about a hero's life. Their trials. That's why I Can't save most silent leads or creator create characters. I want to know how others live react help people and learn to love. I already know how I do those things. If you want games more for gameplay have at it. But I think the thing that stick with players in an rpg is the story.

What you described is not a true RPG. You've described is an Interactive Movie RPG, which is a sub-genre of RPGs created by Yoshinori Kitase that focus on story over gameplay. As I've said, a true RPG is focused on using gameplay to making the player feel like they're role-playing as character in a fully realised fantasy world. The deep story is merely a means to which a RPG makes the fantasy world more interesting and engaging for the player to play around in.

Also, if you really care about story over gameplay, I suggest you get into visual novels and interactive movies. They offer what you want much better than RPGs.