FFXVI: The mainline FF hidden from the public for 6 years and counting.

[Tornak]

I know having some evidence is nice, but it's better not to put all of our hopes on Ito being the chosen one for XVI.

Now, I'd absolutely love it. He's one of the most important parts of the series, and has contributed in so many things I can't even think of one reason he's been so underused for so long (unless, of course, that he's actually directing/producing XVI).

And he's directed both of my favourite FF (VI and IX) and has really collaborated in others I really love (XII, Tactics...) and basically created the classical battle system we knew from IV to IX.

I hope Verendus is right and that the title is already on its way (which would be something logical). He also said that, unless things have changed, the protagonist was to be a male, that it would be the opposite of XIII (medieval setting? very open?) and that it probably would take four years or so.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

1Truth2Lies you provide so much information that you make it difficult not to believe and support your theory. I really wish you were right. I'd be beyond happy if they released something similar to XII after all these years...

I hope I'm right, also. However, since Q1 2009, I've been pondering the thought of Ito secretly directing a mainline FF. All the evidence I've amassed since then was only to make sure I was not engaging in wishful thinking. I need there to be solid proof to support my belief. Thankfully, I was able to speak to some Square Enix developers about Ito when they've toured to London to promote their games. I'm also grateful to the ones that answered my questions about him via Twitter.

This belief has cost me, though. I've garnered some internet haters and have a somewhat negative reputation for my continued threads on the whole "Ito returning to mainline FF" subject. However, no amount of hate will make me give up my belief, especially seeing as I have evidence to support it. None of this is blind wishful thinking or tin hat theorising, as my haters claim.

As for the gameplay of FFXVI, I'm sure with Ito's directing then it will be an evolution of FFXII's ADB and Gambit systems. Ito said more than once in the past that he wants to evolve the gameplay of FFXII in a future game. That game will be FFXVI.

I know having some evidence is nice, but it's better not to put all of our hopes on Ito being the chosen one for XVI.

Now, I'd absolutely love it. He's one of the most important parts of the series, and has contributed in so many things I can't even think of one reason he's been so underused for so long (unless, of course, that he's actually directing/producing XVI).

And he's directed both of my favourite FF (VI and IX) and has really collaborated in others I really love (XII, Tactics...) and basically created the classical battle system we knew from IV to IX.

I hope Verendus is right and that the title is already on its way (which would be something logical). He also said that, unless things have changed, the protagonist was to be a male, that it would be the opposite of XIII (medieval setting? very open?) and that it probably would take four years or so.

I don't know about Verendus, as I'm still not convinced he has insider sources at Square Enix. All I can go off is evidence I've amassed myself.

I've long been puzzled about why Ito has been so underused on FF since FFXII IZJS came out in 2007. However, now that I'm convinced he's been making FFXVI behind the scenes, I can understand why has not been on any other FF game. If you recall, during the entire 5 years he spent working on FFXII (December 2000 - March 2006), he did not work on any other FF game; he wasn't even credited on any other Square Enix game during that period. I think that since he started on FFXVI in Q1 2008, he has been solely dedicated to that project and not wanted to work on any other FF games concurrently.

Also, I asked Yoshinori Kitase about the status of Hiroyuki Ito in February 13th, when I attended the European launch event of LR FFXIII in London. It was a passing question I asked as he signed my copy of LR FFXIII. My question was translated by a Square Enix UK translator who sat next to him at the event.

Here was my brief Q&A:

Q: I noticed Hiroyuki Ito, who has worked on the FF series for many years, had no involvement in the FFXIII trilogy, FFXIV: A Realm Reborn, and the forthcoming FFXV. Will he ever return to the FF series, possibly even direct FFXVI?

Kitase: (Laughs) Sorry, but I can't answer that question directly. However, I can tell you that the reason Ito-san never worked on the FFXIII trilogy, FFXIV, and the forthcoming FFXV is because he has his own development team at Square Enix. I personally would have liked him to have contributed ideas to the battle system of LR FFXIII, but he was simply too busy with other projects.

The only project that I can think of that will be so important to Ito is FFXVI. Similarly to how he chose to only work on FFXII and no other FF games concurrently, he's now choosing to only work on FFXVI.

 

[Tornak]

I don't know about Verendus, as I'm still not convinced he has insider sources at Square Enix. All I can go off is evidence I've amassed myself.

I've long been puzzled about why Ito has been so underused on FF since FFXII IZJS came out in 2007. However, now that I'm convinced he's been making FFXVI behind the scenes, I can understand why has not been on any other FF game. If you recall, during the entire 5 years he spent working on FFXII (December 2000 - March 2006), he did not work on any other FF game; he wasn't even credited on any other Square Enix game during that period. I think that since he started on FFXVI in Q1 2008, he has been solely dedicated to that project and not wanted to work on any other FF games concurrently.

Also, I asked Yoshinori Kitase about the status of Hiroyuki Ito in February 13th, when I attended the European launch event of LR FFXIII in London. It was a passing question I asked as he signed my copy of LR FFXIII. My question was translated by a Square Enix UK translator who sat next to him at the event.

Here was my brief Q&A:


The only project that I can think of that will be so important to Ito is FFXVI. Similarly to how he chose to only work on FFXII and no other FF games concurrently, he's now choosing to only work on FFXVI.

Yeah, I'm not too sure either, but he is supposed to be a Sony employee and well, GAF is really strict with these people and check them to be sure they're legit (even if info might be wrong/changed). But everything he said about XVI sounds very reasonable, actually.

And yeah, if I had to really really bet on someone, I would say Ito because I think there is a lot of stuff that could back that up. If he's really that busy (mobile games aren't big things and he only comes up with the concept) either they're just being nice/lying or he's working on something big. And what's bigger than a mainline FF?

I'd love for them to return to the XII's system too, with more freedom of movement and more seamlessness. My perfect setting would be pure fantasy, but darker and complex than that of previous ones (although I'd also love a fairytalesque one like in IX).

The designs? If possible something like Basch's original design: God, I love it so much:

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Yeah, I'm not too sure either, but he is supposed to be a Sony employee and well, GAF is really strict with these people and check them to be sure they're legit (even if info might be wrong/changed). But everything he said about XVI sounds very reasonable, actually.

And yeah, if I had to really really bet on someone, I would say Ito because I think there is a lot of stuff that could back that up. If he's really that busy (mobile games aren't big things and he only comes up with the concept) either they're just being nice/lying or he's working on something big. And what's bigger than a mainline FF?

I'd love for them to return to the XII's system too, with more freedom of movement and more seamlessness. My perfect setting would be pure fantasy, but darker and complex than that of previous ones (although I'd also love a fairytalesque one like in IX).

The designs? If possible something like Basch's original design: God, I love it so much:

I really want an evolution of FFXII's battle system in FFXVI, but all the kinks and flaws removed. Also, love your setting idea for FFXVI.

My ideal setting is a mixture of FFVI, FFIX, and FFXII. However, all the historical Middle Eastern art aspects of FFXII would be replaced with historical European art aspects. If we don't get that, I'll settle on something purely Medieval like FFI-FFV and FFT.

Lastly, that early draft of Basch is so badass. I never tire of looking at it. I hope that Akihiko Yoshida is character designer of FFXVI and we get a manly main character like that. I really love Yoshida's design for the promotional main character of FFXIV and FFXIV ARR. His deign strikes a good balance between overly manly WRPG leads and overly feminine JRPG leads. In other words, he looks grounded and believable.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

This is what I wish more Final Fantasy leads would look like. Just looks like someone I can take seriously.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

This is what I wish more Final Fantasy leads would look like. Just looks like someone I can take seriously.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel at this point. Especially coming off the rainbow coloured hairstyles of the FFXIII trilogy cast. FFXV cast would look good if they didn't all wear black and give off the impression of being a boy band.

I think that Akihiko Yoshida knows how to strike a balance between WRPG and JRPG character design tropes. He's definitely not your usual JRPG character designer. His tendency to draw a more Western perceived sexual female anatomy is proof of that. For example, when FFXII was released in Japan, many Japanese gamers were like saying Ashe was too overweight below the waist to be the female lead. This was obviously due to how much hips and ass Yoshida gave her. Yet, when the game released in the West, most guys were saying Ashe's body is on point.

 

[Tornak]

Yeah, when I first saw that XIV design, I though that it'd be great having a main character look like that (or like my avatar ), not overly manly, but not femenine, a middle ground. But well, it's been 8 years, so I'm really used to XV's designs (I keep hating on things like Noctis' hair or trousers, but it's much better than the baby-faced edgy original design).

And Yoshida is an ass man, as everybody should be. Fran, Ashe and Penelo are living proof of that.

Although, even if I love him, I'd also love a new character designer, with a closer style to his art rather than Nomura's. SE needs new and young blood.

Man, I really hope they ditch XV's sequels and get back (or at least try) to the time where every couple of years there was a new FF universe. Now it'll be longer, sure, but I could see this getting announced in two years or so.

It's been 8 years without a new FF world (yeah, I know ARR is great, but I mean SP). I remember the excitement everytime they announced a new mainline

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Man, I really hope they ditch XV's sequels and get back (or at least try) to the time where every couple of years there was a new FF universe. Now it'll be longer, sure, but I could see this getting announced in two years or so.

It's been 8 years without a new FF world (yeah, I know ARR is great, but I mean SP). I remember the excitement everytime they announced a new mainline

I think they'll start to do that again. They'll be begin to focus on mainline FF games only, with no direct sequels.

If you look at The Elder Scrolls, there are only mainline games, with no direct sequels to each entry. Despite this, The Elder Scrolls V has shipped over 20 million worldwide, which is higher than the entire FFXIII trilogy, as those three games have only shipped 11 million worldwide combined. That's one WRPG selling almost double the combined sales of three FF games. I think Yoichi Wada has seen this and will make sure Square Enix return to focusing only on one mainline FF game numeral with no direct sequels. Tabata has even already confirmed that FFXV will not have any direct sequels.

 

[Leonhart]

IMO, more than management, it's the huge failure of FFXIV. Had that game been a success, FFXIV ARR would never have needed to be made. Therefore, VersusXIII would not have got renamed and Nomura not ejected from the project. Also, Ito would have kept his 200-300 staff instead of them all being given to Naoki Yoshia to make FFXIV ARR in 2-3 years. Basically, if FFXIV was a success in September 2010, we'd have got VersusXIII in Nomura's original vision and with him still directing released by Q4 2012. FFXV by Ito would then be released in Q4 2013 as a cross-gen game. Kitase/Toriyama wouldn't even need to make LR FFXIII, and instead have already started on FFXVI or FFVII Remake by Q1 2012 for release on PS4/Xbox One.

I think your open post could be very accurate and I could imagine that everything there turns real but I can't agree with this one.
I don't think FFXIV should be the culprit of everything and no one really knows if everything else you said (Versus XIII out in 2012, XV by Ito in 2013, no LR FFXIII and a XVI or VII remake) could happen if XIV was a huge success.
For me they had a lot of trouble during Versus XIII too and there's no way the game could be released in 2012. And you forgot that the Nomura team worked on several Kingdom Hearts portable releases too. Nomura stated more than on time that Versus was on hold since his team was busy with other things.

On the other hand, Final Fantasy XIII itself can share a lot of the guilt too, since most people dislike the game. I think the XIII-2 and LR are tries to fix it and not to cover up the XIV failure.
Square-Enix has been passing for a lot of trouble and I believe it's not just XIV fault.

Now, going back to the "future" FFXVI, I think Square-Enix could use some people from Crystal Dynamics in the process too.
During the Agnis Philosophy tech demo they used one of the artists from Crystal Dynamics and the setting of the tech demo is very nice, a mix of ocidental and oriental designs.
I think something very interesting could came from this mix.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

I think your open post could be very accurate and I could imagine that everything there turns real but I can't agree with this one.
I don't think FFXIV should be the culprit of everything and no one really knows if everything else you said (Versus XIII out in 2012, XV by Ito in 2013, no LR FFXIII and a XVI or VII remake) could happen if XIV was a huge success.
For me they had a lot of trouble during Versus XIII too and there's no way the game could be released in 2012. And you forgot that the Nomura team worked on several Kingdom Hearts portable releases too. Nomura stated more than on time that Versus was on hold since his team was busy with other things.

This is incorrect, though.

The VersusXIII were never working on other KH games at the same time as VersusXIII. That's the whole reason we never got KHIII last-gen, as the KHI and KHII team were busy with VersusXIII. All the handheld KH games were either made by the Osaka team or contracted out to third parties like Hand. Also, Nomura never once said VersusXIII was on hold because the VersusXIII team were busy with KH projects.

I maintain that VersusXIII could have released in Q4 2012. We got that gameplay trailer in January 2011 and Nomura said the next time we saw it, it would be playable. This led people to believe it would have a demo at E3 2011. If it did, you can be sure they would have targeted a 2012 release for the game. Why is got delayed so much is obviously due to FFXIV failing and Square Enix management pushing it back to put all effort into making FFXIV ARR.

 

[Leonhart]

This is incorrect, though.

The VersusXIII were never working on other KH games at the same time as VersusXIII. That's the whole reason we never got KHIII last-gen, as the KHI and KHII team were busy with VersusXIII. All the handheld KH games were either made by the Osaka team or contracted out to third parties like Hand. Also, Nomura never once said VersusXIII was on hold because the VersusXIII team were busy with KH projects.

I maintain that VersusXIII could have released in Q4 2014. We got that gameplay trailer in January 2011 and Nomura said the next time we saw it, it would be playable. This led people to believe it would have a demo at E3 2011. If it did, you can be sure they would have targeted a 2012 release for the game. Why is got delayed so much is obviously due to FFXIV failing and Square Enix management pushing it back to put all effort into making FFXIV ARR.

Hm.. If they don't helped with the Kingdom Hearts games I don't know what they are really making because if we follow this timeline: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/05/28/where-is-final-fantasy-versus-xiii.aspx

July 2011
Versus XIII is still in the pre-production phase, though Nomura says that the team is making preparations to screenshots are shown to selected press, but are not published or otherwise released to the public.

September 2011
Versus XIII is absent from the Tokyo Game Show. Yoshinori Kitase confirms that the game has entered full production.

The game entered full production only in sept 2011, so a release date of Q4 2012 that you state in your post (and not Q4 2014 that you are using now and seems more accurate) seems a bit impossible.
And If XIV was a failure, the logical answer should be release Versus XIII (a game that everyone is waiting) to cover up the mess and not delay it.
You claim the XVI was moved to help with ARR but this don't affect the production of Versus XIII. And I can't see why it could have an relation with Nomura leaving the project.

Like I said before I think Versus XIII had it's own problems and because that Nomura was replaced and the game isn't out yet.
Can't be only because of Final Fantasy XIV... or your really thinks that S-E was betting all of it's horses on a game that is a MMORPG and only available in the PC (by that time)?

Final Fantasy XIV was created to be an update of FFXI (one of the most profitable games in the series) and not a huge hit that can define the future of the series with his success or failure.
They know most people just skip Final Fantasy XI and XIV just because they are online, the future of the series can rely on that.

 

[Nikolasvanitas]

FFXVI with Ito and Yoshida for character design would be awesome

 

[1Truth2Lies]

OK, I've updated the OP and made it much more in-depth. I think it reads much better now, so even if you've read it before, give it another read by all means.

FFXVI with Ito and Yoshida for character design would be awesome

That's what I want more than anything at this point. I'm sure with Ito directing and the FFXII team behind it, Yoshida has naturally been chosen. Directors and development teams tend to to stick with the same character designers and composers.

There seems to be a "Main Character Design" cycle now, too:

• FFXII: Akihiko Yoshida
• FFXIII: Tetsuya Nomura
• FFXIV: Akihiko Yoshida
• FFXV: Tetsuya Nomura

 

[Leonhart]

@1Truth2Lies do you mind If I translate this info to portuguese and post it to my friends here in Brazil? Full credits to you of course.
Like I said in my introduction, I'm one of the administrators of Final Fantasy Brasil and we have a forum too. I would like to see what my guys back there think about your findings.
I will put a link to your profile and this original post so if they want (the people who can speak english) they can reach you and post their thoughts here too.

People are uncomfortable with the news from XV and maybe these infos of XVI can make some people happy.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

@1Truth2Lies do you mind If I translate this info to portuguese and post it to my friends here in Brazil? Full credits to you of course.
Like I said in my introduction, I'm one of the administrators of Final Fantasy Brasil and we have a forum too. I would like to see what my guys back there think about your findings.
I will put a link to your profile and this original post so if they want (the people who can speak english) they can reach you and post their thoughts here too.

People are uncomfortable with the news from XV and maybe these infos of XVI can make some people happy.

Sure, no problem.

The reasons I finally decided to type this all out is because I saw the negative reactions people had to FFXV upon finding out Nomura had been booted off the project and how his vision for the battle system had been completely changed. I want to show people that there's another mainline FF that will come much sooner after FFXV than later. Basically, if you no longer like FFXV's current direction, you won't have to wait 10 years after it releases until FFXVI. That game is already in production, and with a FF series veteran in the director's seat.

 

[Chevalier]

Sure, no problem.

The reasons I finally decided to type this all out is because I saw the negative reactions people had to FFXV upon finding out Nomura had been booted off the project and how his vision for the battle system had been completely changed. I want to show people that there's another mainline FF that will come much sooner after FFXV than later. Basically, if you no longer like FFXV's current direction, you won't have to wait 10 years after it releases until FFXVI. That game is already in production, and with a FF series veteran in the director's seat.

But you are basing it on your own narrative. I was prepared to dissect it all and began doing it. Because I -enjoy- speaking about these things and commend you for taking interest. However, it's important that you back what you say with citations and not just some story you wish to present.

In fact, a lot of what you posted here needs a big 'CITATION NEEDED' because you even go as far as to outline motivations and teams as if you're aware of internal affairs. You've crafted your own narrative and story. But it is not demonstrably true until after the fact. And even then, you take some liberties with not citing things (eg. you mention it took Ito 4 weeks to do his job for Guardian Cross and it should be relatively simple to source that since the game is already out. Yet you do not.)

This is enthusiastic guessing at best. And I say that in the kindest way possible because you took your time doing it and the last thing I want is to lambast you for it. But it would make more sense to start from somewhere more grounded. Eliminate needless assertions or add sources where possible, et ect.

What we currently know of XVI:

-It's in the development.
-Hyrouki Ito could be directing it. We assume this by process of elimination. But since we have no information on internal dealings, it is inconclusive.
-As for the people working on it besides Ito, I assume you've been checking credits like crazy and it's important to NOTE WHY you come to the conclusion that these people are believed to be involved in XVI.

 

[wmlk]

I wouldn't be surprised if Silicon Studio collaborated with Square Enix to make a more 'classic' Final Fantasy. Just like they collaborated to make Bravely Default.
They seem competent technologically and seem to have developed a pretty solid game with a natural evolution for pre-rendered backgrounds.

 

[somni]

That is quite the theory you mustered up. Although XVI being announced in 2017 celebrating the franchise's 30th anniversary does sound very plausible, as it seems like something SE marketing would be all over.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

But you are basing it on your own narrative. I was prepared to dissect it all and began doing it. Because I -enjoy- speaking about these things and commend you for taking interest. However, it's important that you back what you say with citations and not just some story you wish to present.

In fact, a lot of what you posted here needs a big 'CITATION NEEDED' because you even go as far as to outline motivations and teams as if you're aware of internal affairs. You've crafted your own narrative and story. But it is not demonstrably true until after the fact. And even then, you take some liberties with not citing things (eg. you mention it took Ito 4 weeks to do his job for Guardian Cross and it should be relatively simple to source that since the game is already out. Yet you do not.)

This is enthusiastic guessing at best. And I say that in the kindest way possible because you took your time doing it and the last thing I want is to lambast you for it. But it would make more sense to start from somewhere more grounded. Eliminate needless assertions or add sources where possible, et ect.

What we currently know of XVI:

-It's in the development.
-Hyrouki Ito could be directing it. We assume this by process of elimination. But since we have no information on internal dealings, it is inconclusive.
-As for the people working on it besides Ito, I assume you've been checking credits like crazy and it's important to NOTE WHY you come to the conclusion that these people are believed to be involved in XVI.

As I said in the opening paragraphs of my OP, my narrative is all based on highly reliable evidence I've amassed over the years. I'd like to include quotes and sources to everything, but would make the OP way, way too long. Even then, I tried looking for certain sources, but it seems they're now offline or I just can't find them no more. For example, I found out Ito spent 4 weeks creating the draft plan of Guardian Cross in a 4Gamer interview with the producer Shinichi Tatsuke around a week before it was released. I spent a good half hour trying to find this page again on 4Gamer, but I can't find it any more. I have sources for 80-90% of my narrative, but including them all with quotes and references would take too much time and effort. It would make the OP border on an in-depth college dissertation and I really don't want to put that much effort into it, as that's going in way too deep.

If you haven't read it, I have a thread with points that indicate Hiroyuki Ito is directing FFXVI. This thread contains some of the quotes and references you're after, so please read it. That being said, the thread only has around 20% of all points I've amassed over the years. There were many others I wanted to add to that thread, but I could no longer find the interviews online, so didn't want to list them as points in that thread without a source to back me up.

With regards to the long narrative of FFXVI's development history in this thread's OP, people like yourself are just going to have to either take my word for it and believe that my evidence to type it was solid, or just ignore it and label it fiction. If you choose to label it fiction because there aren't enough sources provided, that's your choice. There's no force on my end, as I'm not going to spend any more time hunting down all the interview quotes and references I discovered since I began this investigation in early 2009.

So, what does my research tell me about FFXVI?

• It was originally supposed to be FFXV and began planning in Q1 2008, around half a year after FFXII IZJS released.
• Hiroyuki Ito is directing.
• When the project began in Q1 2008, the staff only included key members of the FFXII team, which are the names I mentioned in the OP.

 

[kingkupo]

Hopefully It turns out to be amazing and washes the bad taste of The supposed casualized combat system we are hearing that XV is supposed to have from Tabata. Square Enix from the start of last gen to now has shown that they are pretty messed up when it comes to managment. From the whole debacle with the Final Fantasy XIII games to milking it by making sequels we did not want. To even now with Nomura leaving his project he worked on for so long for it to be taken over by someone who gave us a quote like this "I myself am not getting any younger. I don't want to be frantically pushing buttons." I mean is he serious. Hopefully With Final Fantasy XVI the game really returns Final Fantasy to what it was like during its golden age and gives us a Decent Turn based battle system If not a amazing one and i think that is going to happen seeing that Ito is one of the most competent developers inside of Square right now and from your analysis I have read from your two forum posts it is sounding really believable that A Final Fantasy XVI has been worked on it the backround all this time. Hopefully It does get revealed by next year along With a XII HD Its what we really need right now.

Sounds like ffxv will be Kingdom Hearts in an FF skin