What If: Lightning Returns was originally Final Fantasy XIII

[Keriaku]

Hello everyone! I had this idea the other day and I thought I'd pose it to the forums here. I feel like I might make this a recurring thread idea of 'What If's', where I pose hypothetical scenarios with the aim getting people thinking and starting some discussion. These thoughts are certainly in the realm of theoretical, so they may not have any basis in reality, but that doesn't keep them from being something interesting to think about! I haven't spent a lot of time planning out how I'll present this, so I'll just get my thoughts down as I go. In the future I may not limit it to Final Fantasy and I'll move to the appropriate forum.

Today I ask: What if Lightning Returns was the game that came out as Final Fantasy XIII, back in 2009?

Would people accept it, being a fairly large departure from what the mainline series has done before? If there existed no backlash against a game people thought was too linear, would there instead be backlash for the game being too non-linear? By all accounts, people seem to be impressed by the world-driven concept of LR, but it is possible that this is so readily accepted because it's a reaction to the linearity of the first?

And the story as well. How would you feel if you were dropped into a story where a then-unknown character is declared Savior and must go around saving various people? It's certainly a grandiose concept that is easy to wrap your head around, but it could feel almost too drastic. Or do you think it would be just the right level of epic needed for the first FF of the PS3 generation? How do you think your perceptions of Snow, Noel, Serah, et cetera would change?

What would you think of the battle system, having no knowledge of it's original incarnation involving Paradigm Shifting? Would people give it a chance to see the depth it certainly has, or would people write it off as a silly rehash of X-2's dresspheres?

In the end, it is a slightly silly notion, as we cannot divorce LR's existence from it's lineage. At least for myself, it gets me thinking about the impact XIII had on how people perceive the saga, and it's interesting to think what LR would do if it was in that same position. This same question could be posed of XIII-2 as well, though I think that would be significantly less controversial.

Feel free to discuss any of the above, and anything else this brings to mind.

 

[yeah_93]

Well well, I'd have to play LR first to give an opinion. But I'd think playing with just one character would be a departure to the series and much more like Crisis Core.

 

[Leon Aether]

This idea would be a complete disaster in terms of playable and non-playable characters! Since Light is the only playable one, I would never consider the game as a main title FF. As a sequel though, I really don't mind.

Then it's the story. If LR was FFXIII, I wouldn't mind if the main character was a savior of souls, and she was accompanied by 5 allies (the main cast) while the FNC gods played the bad guys... Okay it may sound a bit of cliche as an idea, but in my opinion it would fit well in the FNC mythology.

As for the gameplay... I think we have a problem here. If we had the ability to change members during battle being able to change schemata, and there were summons, the gameplay system would be really cool. But if we had to stick with one character and there were no summons at all... No, thank you..

Finally, I believe many have already shouted "No! I won't buy another XIII game"... It's a bit unfair to be honest, since the story has progressed in a very nice way, while the gameplay is really entertaining! Oh well, it's true that most fans are a bit tired of the same project being stretched that much (I'm a bit tired too), but I find it impossible to not anticipate LR! It's a very nice step forward for the saga, and it deserves a well created finale.

 

[Storm2356]

I feel if LR was the first and only XIII game, the reaction would have been just as negative for entirely different reasons.

 

[Fleur]

Would people accept it, being a fairly large departure from what the mainline series has done before?

Comparatively? I can probably make a good guess. Everyone will be intrigued at first, but a week or so later, it would be perfectly clear that the game would still divide opinions, rather than the more unanimous adoration that FFX received. Until LR does come out and we gain a good sample of how people receive it, even if they're likely to be derivatively affected by pre-existing opinions of previous games, I can only guess what general reception would be based on...well, how someone like I would have responded.

If there existed no backlash against a game people thought was too linear, would there instead be backlash for the game being too non-linear?

I'd hazard a guess and say yes. FFXII's world has received backlash - though of course, nowhere near as loudly as FFXIII's corridors - for being a long, grindy slog that wounds storyline pacing, especially when there are large maps to cross. But the backlash would be a quiet minority, I wager, especially if players feel that SE have struck a decent balance between scale and storyline pacing.

If FFXIII had maps like LR complete with monorails, it would definitely look more like the next-gen Final Fantasy vision that many - including myself - wished to see. As a kid, I've always associated the shift to more powerful console machines with a next-gen PS3 Final Fantasy game bigger and grander in the scope and realisation of its world than ever before. I've never pictured - nor did I want - confining linear spaces. That wasn't my idea of progression, and I'm sure the majority went along with that line as well.

So yeah, in that respect, FFXIII with LR's world and maps would have been much more fondly received.

By all accounts, people seem to be impressed by the world-driven concept of LR, but it is possible that this is so readily accepted because it's a reaction to the linearity of the first?

The backlash towards FFXIII certainly would have had a major effect, though maybe not a totalising one. Personally, FFXIII has confirmed for me a type of game and world design that I don't want to see in RPGs. I picture it like a spectrum. FFXIII occupies a space on one end, pushing things towards the other way, so the "centrist", or rather, the median opinion space shifts several feet closer towards the larger open-world space.

And the story as well. How would you feel if you were dropped into a story where a then-unknown character is declared Savior and must go around saving various people? It's certainly a grandiose concept that is easy to wrap your head around, but it could feel almost too drastic. Or do you think it would be just the right level of epic needed for the first FF of the PS3 generation? How do you think your perceptions of Snow, Noel, Serah, et cetera would change?

Well, it will certainly be dramatic enough for a JRPG. I guess that's a start!

I think we've had a loosely similar scenario to this before. Remember Valkyrie Profile? Your Aesir-blessed Valkyrie is on a mission to round up potential deceased souls as she races against a clock ticking down to probable apocalypse with a war going on in the realms above Midgard.

Well, obviously, they're going to have to be totally new characters. They can't rely on the player acting in a "SUCH AND SUCH IS BACK!" excitement, which is undoubtedly what the real LR is - a get-together parade! If they handle the FFXIII characters as strangers that Lightning meets and interacts with like the individual Einherjar in Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth, then...well, it could work. It would need a competent writer to pull it off effectively, something I have no hope for in Toriyama and Watanabe frankly, but it could have been done.

Snow, Fang, Hope, etc. will have to be characters portrayed very differently given the vast contextual differences between LR and FFXIII, so if they're first-time characters, a player could very well see very different characters to what we got in FFXIII. I imagine Snow could be a lot more popular, for one. Lightning too, providing she is handled well in LR.

What would you think of the battle system, having no knowledge of it's original incarnation involving Paradigm Shifting? Would people give it a chance to see the depth it certainly has, or would people write it off as a silly rehash of X-2's dresspheres?

The costumes probably wouldn't be mocked as it is now, so much as people would be like "huh, wtf? It's FFX-2 again...", unsure how to take it.

I don't think the game would be very popular as a mainline title with only one playable character, and so far as we know, Fang as an NPC guest member. People expect a full party lineup in the mainline titles, and if the new Lightning character does nothing for them when she's seemingly the sole protagonist, then...oh dear.

The biggest charge against FFXIII is the auto-battle mechanic, and its ubiquity right there that people take it to be auto-playing itself taken to another level. LR obviously won't have that, so there's one thing that could work in its favour as a hypothetical mainline game. Beyond that, I dunno. We've not played the game, so we can't say for sure or gauge reactions at the moment. But it reminds me of Valkyrie Profile with the commands mapped on the face buttons, so I'll probably like it a bit. Lack of summons would get many up in arms though, wondering whether SE stamped the Final Fantasy IP on the wrong game.

Overall? As a very vague guess, Lightning Returns as the actual FFXIII would likely still come under fire for a woeful story and writing - probably mediocre characters as well. Battle system? Jury's out on that one. Many will find this too big a departure to handle. Others will adjust to it and probably like it. But with its world and supposed size and scope? If FFXIII had this world, it will probably be treated today with considerably more reverence and respect, I suspect. No, it wouldn't be hailed by most as an excellent game, but it wouldn't have that massive disappointment and bitterness factor to it. People wouldn't be accusing it of being a pretty corridor run with little actual substance.

I also suspect more people would have stuck around to buy the sequel as well, with a stronger initial foundation.

 

[masterlobo]

I don't think people would've accepted it.

Maybe the openness of LR + the party and story of XIII could work for a more 'traditional' appeal.

 

[yeah_93]

I don't think people would've accepted it.

Maybe the openness of LR + the party and story of XIII could work for a more 'traditional' appeal.

That's true, but I'm sure the hallways of XIII weren't 'traditional' either.

 

[yeah_93]

What is the "traditional" standard anymore these days? Is it necessary to be "traditional" and stick close to the formula we know has worked before, or take risks and "expand our horizons" and whatever?

That's one thing I think everyone has to at least give to the FFXIII games - all three of them are experimenting and doing things that isn't "traditional" and even if you don't like the changes made in each game I'd say it's better than rehashing the same gameplay and design over and over.

I don't care about certain traditions. For example, I like the fact that XV broke with the tradition of turn based gameplay (or ATB battle if you are one of those who say it isn't really turn based). And I'd gladly take any day the old design of FFs over those XIII tunnels. Good thing they learned, though.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

It would be brand damaging stuff and wouldn't pass the high expectations people have for a numbered Final Fantasy title. People wouldn't view it as a proper numbered title and would label it as a game Square Enix slapped the Final Fantasy name on in order to sell a few more copies.

 

[Varnis]

To answer the question...It wouldn't change how people feel about the game, if only because this isn't the first time that a 'new entry' has divided this fanbase (and it will NOT be the last)

I'm sorry if I gotta be 'that guy' but seeing comments that say "Controlling only one character is a bad idea" REALLY makes me cringe...maybe it's because I wasn't always an RPG player like most of the community but I've played 100s of games where I'm only controlling one character, so when I see that excuse being used to describe someone's dislike of a game I can only say to them "I guess you've never played a lot of the great games that are out there" because most of them let you control...how many characters? Just ONE.

But seeing as how we're talking about Final Fantasy...a Japanese Role-Playing Game Franchise where every new iteration is trying so hard to be more different than previous games, all I have to say is that if you thought this series wouldn't end up where Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII is today? you've probably only played 1 or 2 games in the series.

As for how the Story and Gameplay would've been received? If it's changed the rulebooks from the previous games (For Example. Final Fantasy I-XII) then you can bet the farm that 'Longtime' fans will not agree with it because like almost every gamer out there...They are afraid of change.

 

[Fleur]

I'm sorry if I gotta be 'that guy' but seeing comments that say "Controlling only one character is a bad idea" REALLY makes me cringe...maybe it's because I wasn't always an RPG player like most of the community but I've played 100s of games where I'm only controlling one character, so when I see that excuse being used to describe someone's dislike of a game I can only say to them "I guess you've never played a lot of the great games that are out there" because most of them let you control...how many characters? Just ONE.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's what people are saying. I've never encountered anyone who has claimed that an RPG with only one playable character means it's inherently a bad game, which is why a spinoff of side Final Fantasy game like Crisis Core garnered virtually no backlash. What backlash Lightning Returns has received in this area is more to do with general disdain or apathy towards the character herself than the fact that she's the only playable protagonist.

Something like Lightning Returns as a mainline game, I can understand if people aren't reciprocating favourably towards it. Not because it is inherently a bad game because otherwise, they should probably consider retiring from their video games hobby, but because it's a very drastic change that I don't think the fanbase is ready for yet. FFXII and FFXIII are slammed for how they've changed their combat comparatively to FFX and prior, but there is still that party dynamic going on that forms part of how a Final Fantasy as a franchise in its mainline games is identified. I'm all for change in the franchise and rightfully so, because otherwise it would be stale, but I can understand the need for caution before changing way too much that it alienates more than it appeals.

LR isn't technically a numbered, mainline experience on its own, so its new direction is perfectly fine. I think we can all accept that side games are where the most off-the-wall innovative ideas not native to the franchise can be tested out. It's in the mainline experience that people are more protective of because they (the more moderate fans, not the Puritan old-school ones who refuse to accept anything after FFIX or FFX as anything but sacrilege of the highest order) continue to seek that essence of a "pure" experience that can see plenty of change and evolution, but can't stray too far away and too abruptly. Imagine if the next mothership Tales game became closer to Vagrant Story than its more familiar party-based dynamic, and what reactions would be.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

Imagine if the next mothership Tales game became closer to Vagrant Story than its more familiar party-based dynamic, and what reactions would be.

Yep. Nothing wrong with change as long as it works. But it's not a good idea to make drastic changes to the point where it starts to effect the IP's identity. Especially if the IP has 14 mothership titles. When you reach that number, it's because there is something fans really like and they keep coming back for more of. It's something that they have come to expect and are familiar with. At this point, you just don't make such drastic changes. There is no need to. The blueprint that Final Fantasy has used for the longest time has proven itself to work just fine. You don't want to do anything that risks losing fans.

Every Final Fantasy is different in terms of different world, story and characters. But the structure and overall set up has seen some pretty noticeable changes starting with the PS2 entries and that's what you don't really want to screw around with.

And since this thread is about what if LR:FFXIII was originally FFXIII when it was released. There is no doubt in my mind that people would question if Square Enix knows what Final Fantasy is. LR:FFXIII is simply not what people expect from a mothership Final Fantasy title. It's too big of a change.

 

[Varnis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's what people are saying. I've never encountered anyone who has claimed that an RPG with only one playable character means it's inherently a bad game.

Well not here, but I've seen/heard other people use that argument for the original Final Fantasy XIII. If I remember the quote correctly: "...for them to think that allowing you to control just one character was a good idea is beyond me..."

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

I'm sorry if I gotta be 'that guy' but seeing comments that say "Controlling only one character is a bad idea" REALLY makes me cringe...maybe it's because I wasn't always an RPG player like most of the community but I've played 100s of games where I'm only controlling one character, so when I see that excuse being used to describe someone's dislike of a game I can only say to them "I guess you've never played a lot of the great games that are out there" because most of them let you control...how many characters? Just ONE.

I can see why they would say it's a bad idea. The mothership Final Fantasy titles are known for letting players have full control of 3-4 characters in battle. Going down to just one sacrifices some of that control. FFI-FFXII (except for FFXI) allowed players to control multiple characters in battle. In FFXIII, they favored speed over control.

Can you imagine Zelda as a turn based game where you control three characters in battle? How about those other single player titles you've played?

I'm sure a lot of people have played those great single player games you speak of. That doesn't mean it's a great idea for Final Fantasy to follow their lead. Different games. Different expectations.

 

[UNKLE]

A failure? cosplay game with one character playable? NOOOOO way FFXIII is better.
but the best version of FFXIII would be ff13 with BIG open world and not linear style..

Anyway i remember good ol days when FFX came out so many people started to hate squaresoft becuse this is "not FF anymore"
it was linear, characters have voice etc.. and look now most people love FFX this is strange.
Personally i love FFXIII it was the best in the trilogy it was unique.

 

[Shin Kazama]

If it were I probably wouldn't be as interested in the game.